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  1. #1
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    Default Robin & Batman #3 Discussion/Spoilers

    This little miniseries has come to a conclusion and I just can say that I wish there was more of it.

    Jeff Lemire brings the final chapter where he continues to explore the parallels between Robin and Batman while also creating an appropriate development for the protagonist. The set-up for that final development is well-planted due that Lemire brings all the doubts that Dick has in full force, delivering references around the future of the character and how he initially believes he just has to be like Bruce in a way that isolates himself from the rest of the world.

    That's not who Dick Grayson is of course and Lemire perfectly understands this. In the ultimate battle against Killer Croc in a pretty familiar setting for the main character, Dick realizes who he really is and how he doesn't have to be like Batman to do the right thing, how he can even be the opposite of his mentor to actually do a better job than him, be better than Batman. Is a perfectly accurate representation of the character and creates a great set-up for his future stories.

    If there's a complaint I have though, is that Killer Croc is kinda weak as an antagonist. He has an serviceable justification to do what he does but is not much more complex than that. However, he doesn't ruin what is a great character-centric plot.

    Dustin Nguyen remains in art duties and his work is still amazing by depicting all the different scenarios perfectly, even the dark ones, even with his semi-cartoony style, and such style is great at creating expressions.

    Great finale. Hope to see more Lemire DC works in the future.

  2. #2

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    Lemire did a great job in addressing the way Bruce has been shown dealing with his "Bat-family" in recent years. He's very flawed, but actually wants the best for Dick. His lack of communication skills and general disregard for Dick's school life feel believable, here's a man dressed as a Bat, his priorities are clearly not the same as a normal person.

    Alfred is depicted very well here. He's the actual parent, and a damn good one.

    Dick, oh I love him. We were treated to a boy who is brave and bold and smart. He's so young, so full of anger. But we also see glimpses of the man he would one day become, the leader, the hero. I love the inclusion of the Teen Titans, the boys Dick plays D&D with. They show how he will grow beyond Bruce, he's made friends with new people and they will help him heal.

    I'd happily have more of this.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member Drako's Avatar
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    Yeah, i wish we had more too, because this was awesome.
    It perfectly encapsulate what the current vision of Robin supposed to be. I really like this mini and 100% will buy the TPB.

    Also, in this day and age where we see adaptations being done left and right, this mini is a perfect one for a movie (animated or live action) or a series.
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  4. #4
    Extraordinary Member HsssH's Avatar
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    One minor nitpick would be that I didn't like Dick mentioning Nightwing, to me thats something he should learn from Superman. But other than that I feel like this mini delivered on what it tried to accomplish.

  5. #5
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    It was an amazing issue. I wish it was a maxi-series or even a longer mini.

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member Blue22's Avatar
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    I need more. This was so good. Give us a Titans spin-off, at least!

  7. #7
    Mighty Member Avi's Avatar
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    A Titans spin-off would be amazing. I think Nguyen was the driving force behind this, so maybe he could convince another writer to join him on such a book given that Lemire is Image Exclusive for now.

    Killer Croc felt a little weak to me too, I wish there'd been a bit more exploration, especially because he was set up so mysteriously throughout the first two Issues.

    I agree that this ending hits home one more time that Bruce deeply cares about Dick but can't show it. Though I would have liked there to be another short scene between them after the hug just to hit home that their dynamic has truly changed in the long term.

    Loved Alfred dropping the clean Robin suit onto Bruce's face after he was all blase about Dick not going to school.

    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    One minor nitpick would be that I didn't like Dick mentioning Nightwing, to me thats something he should learn from Superman. But other than that I feel like this mini delivered on what it tried to accomplish.
    This and Dick not being the first sidekick makes me think of the story as out-of-continuity tbh.

  8. #8
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    I thought this played out pretty well as a mini.

    But part of me, reading this last issue, had this weird thing happen where I stopped and had to think back like, "wait this is Dick Grayson, right?" because I had this momentary blink where I thought it was actually a Year One Pre-Crisis Jason Todd story.
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  9. #9
    Caperucita Roja Zaresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K. Jones View Post
    I thought this played out pretty well as a mini.

    But part of me, reading this last issue, had this weird thing happen where I stopped and had to think back like, "wait this is Dick Grayson, right?" because I had this momentary blink where I thought it was actually a Year One Pre-Crisis Jason Todd story.
    Croc's involvement didn't help. It happened to me too.
    But no, it's a Dick story from the start. I think it may have been a composite Robin when it was still a concept or something. * But the writing is pretty honest even when they don't mention his name: it's Dick.
    Last edited by Zaresh; 01-14-2022 at 12:21 PM.
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  10. #10
    Ultimate Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lal View Post
    It was an amazing issue. I wish it was a maxi-series or even a longer mini.
    IKR. Such a gem, I'm gonna miss it.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaresh View Post
    Croc's involvement didn't help. It happened to me too.
    But no, it's a Dick story from the start. I think it may have been a composite Robin when it was still a concept or something.
    There were definitely some thing in there that were more in line original pre and post flashpoint Jason as with Dick original Run as Robin, and the DnD playing is of course something only Tim did.

    The Batman is of course a more modern version (for classic Batman school came before Robin duties).

  12. #12
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    There were definitely some thing in there that were more in line original pre and post flashpoint Jason as with Dick original Run as Robin, and the DnD playing is of course something only Tim did.

    The Batman is of course a more modern version (for classic Batman school came before Robin duties).
    This reminds me of New Frontier where he tells Robin to make sure he gets his homework done .

  13. #13
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    Btw. it would actually really great to get a year one type of story for post crisis Jason as Robin, since there are barely any stories from that era where Jason is the main character.

  14. #14
    Caperucita Roja Zaresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Btw. it would actually really great to get a year one type of story for post crisis Jason as Robin, since there are barely any stories from that era where Jason is the main character.
    I would read it, and I think some* would, too.

    (Some, not many. Some)
    Last edited by Zaresh; 01-14-2022 at 12:03 PM.
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  15. #15
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    Read through the entire miniseries yesterday (I'd been waiting for all of it to come out before binge-reading it in one go), and I'm pleased to say it's as good (perhaps even better) than I expected it to be Honestly, Robin & Batman is now my definitive version of Dick Grayson's origin as Robin.

    Robin is a concept that's been under siege for quiet some time now, something that seems to be fundamentally at odds with the 'darker' and more 'grounded' take on Batman that's the norm. And yes, on the surface, the idea of a grim avenger of the night like Batman having as his partner a pre-teen kid dressed in bright colors is ridiculous. But the idea of a billionaire dressing up as a bat to fight crime is ridiculous as well, and modern interpretations have made it seem considerably less so by grounding Batman in a kind of psychological realism. And that's what this mini has now done for Robin.

    I love the theme that recurs through the three issues, that Robin, like Batman, is very much part of a dark world and finds himself surrounded by darkness. What sets him apart from Batman is not that he lacks darkness in his life, but rather his specific approach to dealing with it, which leads him to grow into a more emotionally healthy, balanced and overtly compassionate hero (and also slowly starts to change Batman as well). Without really stating it outright, Lemire shows us all the ways in which Dick Grayson is like Bruce Wayne, and all the ways in which he's also not.

    Another great aspect of this mini is the predominance given to Alfred's role in Dick's upbringing. They say it takes a village to raise a child, and here it's made amply clear that it took both Bruce and Alfred to shape Dick into the person and hero he would become. Especially since Batman here is depicted in all his Dark Age hardass glory and is hardly a fit parent to a 12 year old child. But I love how Lemire subverts our impressions of Batman in the context of this story as well. We think that we're seeing the jerkass borderline abusive Batman who's literally turning Dick into a child soldier for his crusade - an impression that really peaks at the end of Part 2 when we learn he was training Dick to be able to go all ''Tower of Babel'' on the (future) Teen Titans. But by the end it's clear that this is a compassionate and caring version of Bruce who's ready to sacrifice his life to keep Dick out of danger, and whose training from hell is born from a genuiene concern that anything less might mean that Dick is unprepared for the dangers of being Robin and could lose his life. But thanks to Alfred, both Bruce and Dick come to understand each other better, and to understand the fact that Dick doesn't have to become just like Bruce in order to become an effective hero.

    The new Killer Croc backstory was a surprising twist for me, but it works pretty well. I was worried for a second there that they'd retcon Dick's origins to have Croc be the Flying Grayson's killer rather than Tony Zucco, but thankfully Lemire stayed away from that. Croc's motivations for hating Dick are pretty basic, but do fit his character. And frankly, the simple and straightforward Killer Croc 'revenge' plot does allow the mini to breath and give space for Dick's character development and his relationships with Bruce and Alfred which are the real focus of this story.

    I enjoyed the visit to the Satellite era Justice League and the OG Teen Titans. It's actually a nice way to foreshadow how Dick, more so than Bruce, is a hero shaped by his experiences in the larger superhero community, and particularly with the Titans.

    This mini is really screaming for an animated adaptation. I also think it should serve as inspiration for any live-action adaptation of Robin. I actually think the tonality of this story could just about fit that of Matt Reeves' new Batverse...hell, I can easily imagine Robert Pattison playing this version of Bruce Wayne.

    The highest praise I can give this mini is that it may have finally done for Robin what Frank Miller did for Batman all those decades ago...
    Last edited by bat39; 01-17-2022 at 05:58 AM.

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