I dunno; his "arc" seems to be about trying to find his way in a world where his values are seen as quaint or obsolete, which lead him to deciding that the former was more important than conformity (in subsequent movies, he pretty exclusively refuses to follow the rules if it means not doing the right thing or what he thinks is the right thing). He certainly does affect more change in other people than in himself in this specific story (I'd argue that this was a key step in Black Widow getting more dimension and shifting more to idealism), but it still holds.
Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
(All-New Wolverine #4)
Funny, to me Cap was rivaling Hawkeye for the least interesting character until The Winter Soldier came out which succeeded in making him far more intriguing. I mean, his biggest contribution to the first Avengers movie in terms of entertainment value was to act as the punching bag for Tony's verbal jabs.
Tolstoy will live forever. Some people do. But that's not enough. It's not the length of a life that matters, just the depth of it. The chances we take. The paths we choose. How we go on when our hearts break. Hearts always break and so we bend with our hearts. And we sway. But in the end what matters is that we loved... and lived.
You may be on to something because Holland himself has said he was tired of playing spider-boy.
https://comicbook.com/marvel/news/to...-boy-comments/
Tom Holland Says He's Grateful He's No Longer "Spider-Boy" After Spider-Man: No Way Home
ah what we sweet vindication for us, who said this from the start that the spider-boy or the iron man junior stuff made no sense plus was making spiderman movies weak and not as great as the Raimi films. Many like me had to do a lot of deep explanation to explain, we were not maliciously hating on MCU Spiderman for saying this . we were just pointing put an honest point for the character based on superhero lore. I am happy Holland knew this was an issue as well but was likely under some agreement not to say much back then.
My only worry now is that Marvel now has access to a whole lot of teen heroes thanks to X-MEN. Kitty Pryde, X23, Jubilee, Magma...heck even Rogue in the comics is meant to be a lot younger than Jean, Psycloke and Storm and I fear Disney will just take this characters and turn them to what they made Ned and Michele Jones and Peter (Holland) should be.
In the comics, there were teen heroes, but I will liken them more to the Buffy teen characters which if we do research, Buffy was greatly inspired by Kitty Pryde. Disney tends to write teen characters very childish and lacking of any meaningful depth as they did with MCU Spiderman characters, when this teen heroes should be coming off age. This is a weakness that hurts the MCU Spiderman form been considered among the best regarded comic films because the story and direction gest affected by this narrative too.
Lastly you asked about Winter Solider. the plot is okay. however the character driven motivation could have been better and the movie could have used a better cinematography and direction to capture the Spy /Espionage genre it was clearly borrowing from. Winter Solider though maybe different in tone, still looks like all the other MCU movies in style.
Last edited by Castle; 01-14-2022 at 01:00 PM.
Read the article; there's nothing about Holland being unhappy that he was playing a kid Spider-Man in the past trilogy, just that they're moving onto new things in the next trilogy.
Also, in regards to making "honest points based on superhero lore," the MCU Spider-Man is based on the Ultimate comics, where a lot of the stuff you've objected to is part of the lore.
Would like an X-23 movie; am still bummed that the one James Mangold wanted to do never got off the ground.
Except Disney actually has a pretty good track record with teen characters. Big Hero 6 and the TV show Gravity Falls come to mind. If you want to include Pixar, consider Inside Out and Onward. Also, as we saw in Spider-Man: No Way Home, the MCU Spider-Man teens are anything but shallow and "childish."
Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
(All-New Wolverine #4)
Sshh! Don't get in the way of Castle bashing the MCU for some imaginary fault.
It's like arguing Winter Soldier was bad not because they combined a superhero movie with an espionage movie, but didn't mimic an old spy movie in how it looked. Which would have made it a parody rather than a very good movie. And BTW the Fury car chase scene looked just like a modern James Bond movie anyway. But hey, let's find another way to bash the MCU that's irrelevant.
Last edited by Kirby101; 01-15-2022 at 07:58 AM.
There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!
He does love to hate it.
Never really got the "they all look the same" argument, not only because they don't, but because of all the variation in tone. Even if most of them use a lot of humor, it's different kinds of humor (consider the absurdity of Thor: Ragnarok to the quips in the original Avengers or the sarcastic streak in Guardians of the Galaxy).
Remember in the audio commentary that the directors explained that they put a lot of thought into making a car chase scene that didn't just do the same old. Heck, if you listen to the commentary, it's pretty clear that the Russos took the project as seriously as they did their own stuff and didn't treat it like a mass-produced franchise product. Same goes for most of the other directors hired for the MCU; read what they have to say and they talk a lot about the creative freedom they had and how they wanted to do these projects and all that.
Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
(All-New Wolverine #4)
It will depend upon who you ask, of course. Critics? Popular opinion? Long term popular opinion?
I'm partial to the first Iron-Man because it was very good and was pre-Disney. But I'm very warm towards Spider-Man: NWH because...
spoilers:end of spoilers
...it really takes things to a very un-fluffy place and actually furthers other movies. We learned that, after the events of the two Garfield movies, he went off the deep end and it is implied he killed some people or so I took the "I stopped holding back" to mean. I wouldn't say it quite does that for the Tobey movies but it sure gives him a better farewell than Spider-Man 3.
Power with Girl is better.