Lost but not forgotten: Hank Pym Appreciation 2022

[Chris0013]

Pym will NOT be coming back in the conclusion of this series. He’ll be coming back at the conclusion of The Wasp series. Just a hunch.

Might be a little weird to overshadow Jan's series with Hank's return.

[Frontier]

Might be a little weird to overshadow Jan's series with Hank's return.

Maybe it'll be a trilogy mini that concludes with Ant-Man and The Wasp...

[Dreaded Porcupine]

Maybe it'll be a trilogy mini that concludes with Ant-Man and The Wasp...

This might be the most logical scenario. Either way it looks like Hank Pym is coming back.

[your_name_here]

Well, if you follow the route this series has gone down, we have 3 Wasps from different eras, plus a potential future iteration.

Janet
Hank Pym
Nadia

So there’s room there to build on Hank, setting up for a new Ant Man and The Wasp series?

[Dreaded Porcupine]

Well, if you follow the route this series has gone down, we have 3 Wasps from different eras, plus a potential future iteration.

Janet
Hank Pym
Nadia

So there’s room there to build on Hank, setting up for a new Ant Man and The Wasp series?

It’s been a very long time coming.

[ARkadelphia]

Maybe it'll be a trilogy mini that concludes with Ant-Man and The Wasp...

I’ll take it!

[Mary Jay]

Maybe it'll be a trilogy mini that concludes with Ant-Man and The Wasp...

*gasp* that would be my dream come true!

[stingray]

*gasp* that would be my dream come true!

Me too, but I'll believe it when I see it. The 'fans' who will never let the slap be forgotten have been pretty vocal, and Marvel doesn't seem to want to forget it either. A few different writers (Mark Waid and Kurt Busiek especially) have tried several times to resolve this, but every time they do, someone else will come along and completely ignore it. Here's hoping though.

[Dreaded Porcupine]

Me too, but I'll believe it when I see it. The 'fans' who will never let the slap be forgotten have been pretty vocal, and Marvel doesn't seem to want to forget it either. A few different writers (Mark Waid and Kurt Busiek especially) have tried several times to resolve this, but every time they do, someone else will come along and completely ignore it. Here's hoping though.

Marvel doesn’t want to forget it???? They created it. They are the guilty ones not Hank. Hank is a fictional character. He’s at the mercy of any writer that comes his way. A good writer can redeem him and try to undo some of what has been done by other writers. Al Ewing is that writer.

[Mary Jay]

Marvel doesn’t want to forget it???? They created it. They are the guilty ones not Hank. Hank is a fictional character. He’s at the mercy of any writer that comes his way. A good writer can redeem him and try to undo some of what has been done by other writers. Al Ewing is that writer.

I sure hope you're right. The thing is, it had been put behind pretty much during Busiek's run, and nobody really hated Hank back then. Only when Mark Millar came along with his Ultimates that he put all that s*** back on the table, times 1000. Casual readers didn't make the difference between different universes, and the whole thing got bigger and bigger, with most of the readers not really knowing what really happened way back when. They didn't care, they had found a reason to be outraged at something.

I'm looking forward to finding out how Ewing's story is going to end tomorrow!! I suspect, as several people have suggested here, that it will actually end with a cliffhanger, leading into the Wasp series next year. I really like Ewing's writing, and I'm still hoping for some miracle

[BlackClaw]

This show has the best versions of Hank and Janet.

[Kurt Busiek]

Marvel doesn’t want to forget it???? They created it.

Marvel doesn't create anything, of course. [Other than legally.]

People created it -- specifically, Jim Shooter and Bob Hall, in 1981, and the editor, Jim Salicrup, let it go through, possibly because the book was running very late, possibly because Shooter was the boss.

None of those people are at Marvel any more.

Other people tried to move past it, to have Hank address his demons and recover -- among them Roger Stern, Steve Englehart and me -- but through all that there were fans raging at all of us that what Hank did was unforgivable. And sure enough, the day came that each of us wasn't working on the books any more, and other people -- notably Mark Millar (in ULTIMATES) and Chuck Austen (in AVENGERS proper) undid everything we did. And other creators have tried to approach the issue, and others have objected, and on it goes.

And during that whole time, fans still feel very strongly about it.

So "Marvel" has, at times, been willing to move past it, and other times have not -- but that's not because the Marvel of 1981 is still there, refusing to forget. It's because who gets to make these decisions changes over time, and as long as there's someone who wants to bring it back up, it can come back up, regardless of whether Marvel was willing to move past it the month previous.

For my part, I think that no matter who tries to put the issue to rest, there'll inevitably be someone who wants to tell a story about the evils of domestic violence, and it'll come back. So I think Hank's a ruined character at this point, because there are enough fans (and creators) who don't want to move past it, so any attempts to do so will be temporary.

Me, I'd be tempted to make it an editorial rule. Don't blow up the moon, don't bring uncle Ben back (at least not permanently), don't bring up Hank slapping Jan. Leave that stuff alone -- stop damaging a founding Avenger.

But even then, whoever made that rule would oneday not be at Marvel (or not be in charge of those characters) and someone would bring it back.

I think he's irredeemably broken. The only way that might change is if the MCU presented Hank and Jan in such a positive light that it changed the public's viewpoint on them on such a vast scale that the comics fans and creators who won't let it go would be outweighed by a larger group who wanted them together.

But even that might not work -- or not work permanently.

The company name stays the same, but the people who make choices keep changing.

A good writer can redeem him and try to undo some of what has been done by other writers. Al Ewing is that writer.

I wish him the best of luck, but I bet there'll be someone who comes along next and messes it all up again.

kdb

[Lukmendes]

Marvel doesn't create anything, of course. [Other than legally.]

People created it -- specifically, Jim Shooter and Bob Hall, in 1981, and the editor, Jim Salicrup, let it go through, possibly because the book was running very late, possibly because Shooter was the boss.

None of those people are at Marvel any more.

Other people tried to move past it, to have Hank address his demons and recover -- among them Roger Stern, Steve Englehart and me -- but through all that there were fans raging at all of us that what Hank did was unforgivable. And sure enough, the day came that each of us wasn't working on the books any more, and other people -- notably Mark Millar (in ULTIMATES) and Chuck Austen (in AVENGERS proper) undid everything we did. And other creators have tried to approach the issue, and others have objected, and on it goes.

And during that whole time, fans still feel very strongly about it.

So "Marvel" has, at times, been willing to move past it, and other times have not -- but that's not because the Marvel of 1981 is still there, refusing to forget. It's because who gets to make these decisions changes over time, and as long as there's someone who wants to bring it back up, it can come back up, regardless of whether Marvel was willing to move past it the month previous.

For my part, I think that no matter who tries to put the issue to rest, there'll inevitably be someone who wants to tell a story about the evils of domestic violence, and it'll come back. So I think Hank's a ruined character at this point, because there are enough fans (and creators) who don't want to move past it, so any attempts to do so will be temporary.

Me, I'd be tempted to make it an editorial rule. Don't blow up the moon, don't bring uncle Ben back (at least not permanently), don't bring up Hank slapping Jan. Leave that stuff alone -- stop damaging a founding Avenger.

But even then, whoever made that rule would oneday not be at Marvel (or not be in charge of those characters) and someone would bring it back.

I think he's irredeemably broken. The only way that might change is if the MCU presented Hank and Jan in such a positive light that it changed the public's viewpoint on them on such a vast scale that the comics fans and creators who won't let it go would be outweighed by a larger group who wanted them together.

But even that might not work -- or not work permanently.

The company name stays the same, but the people who make choices keep changing.

It doesn't help that part of the reason the slap is as infamous as it is is because it happened on a time when heroes weren't (intentionally) written to be assholes who would do such things.

In 2000's we got characters doing far worse things than just giving a slap during a mental breakdown, and those things are forgiven and forgotten about, so it's really silly how a slap defines him so damn much still.

It sucks for Pym he's not a more popular character too, right before Maximum Clonage, Spidey backhanded MJ into a wall so hard she started bleeding, and she was pregnant at the time, and when Spidey realized what he did, he ran away.

This is basically a worse version of Hank's slap, (And he also decided to briefly join Jackal into killing the planet 'cause he was sad he was a clone, but that's besides the point), and it's hardly mentioned by the fanbase, and it's never mentioned in the comics.

So yeah, smaller characters can have one bad moment define them for a long time, Pym goes through this with the slap, Wanda went through that with House of M... Bigger names can do worse and it'll be buried.

I wish him the best of luck, but I bet there'll be someone who comes along next and messes it all up again.

kdb

Ewing is kinda going through that with his Hulk run, since Cates' run immediately undid everything Ewing did in Immortal Hulk.

Considering that his Defenders run had the "We all evolve learn grow. Until next time." line, he's at least aware of this, but man, I'd feel disheartened if everything I did was undone so immediately lol.

[Jely4me]

I miss the Dr. Pym of the WCA era. There’s no reason Hank can’t be up there with Banner, Stark, T’Challa, Blue Marvel, he’s more than worthy.

[Dreaded Porcupine]

Marvel doesn't create anything, of course. [Other than legally.]

People created it -- specifically, Jim Shooter and Bob Hall, in 1981, and the editor, Jim Salicrup, let it go through, possibly because the book was running very late, possibly because Shooter was the boss.

None of those people are at Marvel any more.

Other people tried to move past it, to have Hank address his demons and recover -- among them Roger Stern, Steve Englehart and me -- but through all that there were fans raging at all of us that what Hank did was unforgivable. And sure enough, the day came that each of us wasn't working on the books any more, and other people -- notably Mark Millar (in ULTIMATES) and Chuck Austen (in AVENGERS proper) undid everything we did. And other creators have tried to approach the issue, and others have objected, and on it goes.

And during that whole time, fans still feel very strongly about it.

So "Marvel" has, at times, been willing to move past it, and other times have not -- but that's not because the Marvel of 1981 is still there, refusing to forget. It's because who gets to make these decisions changes over time, and as long as there's someone who wants to bring it back up, it can come back up, regardless of whether Marvel was willing to move past it the month previous.

For my part, I think that no matter who tries to put the issue to rest, there'll inevitably be someone who wants to tell a story about the evils of domestic violence, and it'll come back. So I think Hank's a ruined character at this point, because there are enough fans (and creators) who don't want to move past it, so any attempts to do so will be temporary.

Me, I'd be tempted to make it an editorial rule. Don't blow up the moon, don't bring uncle Ben back (at least not permanently), don't bring up Hank slapping Jan. Leave that stuff alone -- stop damaging a founding Avenger.

But even then, whoever made that rule would oneday not be at Marvel (or not be in charge of those characters) and someone would bring it back.

I think he's irredeemably broken. The only way that might change is if the MCU presented Hank and Jan in such a positive light that it changed the public's viewpoint on them on such a vast scale that the comics fans and creators who won't let it go would be outweighed by a larger group who wanted them together.

But even that might not work -- or not work permanently.

The company name stays the same, but the people who make choices keep changing.



I wish him the best of luck, but I bet there'll be someone who comes along next and messes it all up again.

kdb

You are probably right Kurt. I grew up reading Marvel Triple Action and the original Avengers. That was my introduction to them . I couldn’t find or afford the originals. Always loved the original Avengers. I know you tried to redeem Hank. Tony has been an alcoholic but he always gets redeemed. Peter Parker had a slap himself. Always a double standard with A listers. Anyways I’m hoping Al gives it a try. Thanks for responding.