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  1. #1
    JUST DO IT?!?! Postmania's Avatar
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    Default *nods to Cleric* MCU Supersoldiers vs the following groups

    Taking the premise of Cleric's thread (which made me realize this is a decent size street level group), how would this crew do vs the teams that follow?

    Captain America
    Red Skull
    Winter Soldier
    Other Five unnamed Winter Soldiers (will follow orders here)
    Emil Blonsky (first dose only)
    Isaiah Bradley (in his prime)
    John Walker
    Karli Morgenthau
    Other Seven Flag Smashers
    Red Guardian
    Superserum Peggy Carter (What If?) with sword

    1) Team Other Supersoldiers
    Ja-Yoon (The Witch: Part 1): Feats 1, 2, and 3
    and her opponents from that film, which consist of Nobleman, the girl with the knives, the two unnamed supersoldiers, and Mr Choi (Sunglasses guy with gun) feats shown here ​or covered in previous clips

    and

    Grey (Upgrade): Feats 1, 2, 3, 4
    and his opponents from the film: Fisk Brantner who aside from fighting Grey in that last scene also has a one use sneeze weapon apparently, and his somewhat augmented crew who Grey defeats in the clips above, Tolen and Wen.

    Takes place in Helm's Deep just because it's cool. MCU team have to assault Helms deep but the gates are open and can’t be closed. Team Other Supersoldiers get pistols for everyone

    2) Team Older Action Movie Heroes

    Dutch (Predator)
    Harrigan (Predator 2)
    John Matrix (Commando)
    John Rambo (Rambo movies)
    Luc Deveraux (Universal Soldier)
    Todd (Soldier)
    John Kruger (Eraser)
    Douglas Quaid (Total Recall)
    Harry Trasker (True Lies)
    Jason Bourne
    Bryan Mills (Taken)
    James Bond (Craig films)
    John Wick (John Wick)
    The Predator itself from the first Film

    They have all the equipment they would have picked up in their films (which means a variety of items for Bond) but also things like the hologram from Total Recall, the Railguns from Eraser, massive arsenal from Commando, etc. Takes place in the jungle from Predator.

    3) Team Martial Arts
    Huo Yuanjia (Fearless)
    Detective Ma and Tony (Flash Point): Feat
    Wong Fei Hung (Drunken Master series)
    Ip Man and The Northerner (Ip man series)
    Chen Zhen and General Fujita (Fist of Legend)
    Rama and Mad Dog (The Raid)
    Ito and Arian (The Night Comes for Us): Feat
    Danny the Dog (Unleashed)

    Takes place in a large prison cafeteria. No weapons for anybody starting out but someone has left kitchen utensils out and there's the tables and such that would otherwise be there.

    Edit: Update now includes

    Morpheus (The Matrix)
    Trinity (The Matrix)
    Kham (The Protector)
    Chen Zhen (Legend of the Fist): Donnie Yen's foray into being Chen Zhen, feats 1, 2, 3, 4
    Junbao and Tien-bo from The Tai Chi Master: Feat
    The Coolie and the Tailor from Kung Fu Hustle: Feat excluding the Weapon Master

    4) Team Yulaw
    Yulaw (The One)

    The team has the numbers and equipment advantage but Yulaw is Yulaw. Takes place with Yulaw standing at the top of the hill on the prison planet that the movie ends in, but utterly empty. Yulaw doesn't know they're coming in this case.

    5) Team Fox Movieverse
    Deadpool
    Cable
    Wolverine
    Sabretooth
    Toad
    Mystique
    Nightcrawler
    Lady Deathstrike
    X-23
    X-24
    Beast

    Takes place in the White House where they have to find each other starting from opposite ends.

    6) Team Other Live action comics Fighters
    Hawkeye
    Black Widow
    Yelena Bolova
    Kate Bishop
    Daredevil (Netflix Red Suit)
    Kingpin
    Bullseye (Netflix)
    Jessica Jones
    Alisa Jones (Jess's mom)
    Will Simpson (after taking the Serum, from Jessica Jones)
    Punisher
    Deadshot (Suicide squad)
    Harley Quinn (Suicide squad)
    Bloodsport and Peacemaker (The Suicide Squad)
    Echo (Hawkeye series)
    Falcon (MCU)

    They start out in different locations in an abandoned New York City and have to track each other down and take the other team out.

    Who wins these scenarios?
    Last edited by Postmania; 01-12-2022 at 01:07 PM.
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  2. #2
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postmania View Post
    1) Team Other Supersoldiers
    Ja-Yoon (The Witch: Part 1): Feats 1, 2, and 3
    and her opponents from that film, which consist of Nobleman, the girl with the knives, the two unnamed supersoldiers, and Mr Choi (Sunglasses guy with gun) feats shown [URL="https://youtu.be/nzGRBNXpZvY?t=14"]here[/URL ​or covered in previous clips

    and

    Grey (Upgrade): Feats 1, 2, 3, 4
    and his opponents from the film: Fisk Brantner who aside from fighting Grey in that last scene also has a one use sneeze weapon apparently, and his somewhat augmented crew who Grey defeats in the clips above, Tolen and Wen.

    Takes place in Helm's Deep just because it's cool. MCU team have to assault Helms deep but the gates are open and can’t be closed. Team Other Supersoldiers get pistols for everyone
    Ooh, a thread that contains The Witch! How nice for me!

    Well, Ja-Yoon by herself is a problem. She's capable of literal blink movement at her peak, has regeneration that has her healing a shattered forearm in about ten seconds, is strong enough that she can casually front kick someone through a concrete wall with such force that he goes through the wall and slams into the opposite side of the room he just flew into and has telekinesis that lets her completely immobilise metahuman opponents and kill them, presumably by mushing their brain.

    Also, Knives girl, who is slower than Ja-Yoon, reflects a bullet with her knives at one point. Ambiguous if that's consistent but I would not be surprised if Ja-Yoon was a bullet timer.

    It's also worth noting that all the other super soldiers she fought weren't actually that much of a threat to her. She was messing around, slapping them and laughing at stuff; she was more annoyed by being shot multiple times and stabbed in the gut with a combat knife than actually in real danger.

    So she kind of skews the curve for this team.

    The problem is numbers. Even though the Witch crew seem to be fairly uniformly faster than the MCU crew, they are still quite badly outnumbered (21 to 9) so they are highly likely to get mobbed. Ja-Yoon should be able to stunlock and kill most anyone who she encounters - she could likely beat any individual on the opposing team pretty free one on one.

    Grey and his team don't add much, they aren't as strong as the MCU lot, they might be a shade quicker in combat since they seem to have move prediction but they don't really hit hard enough. Might be able to shoot some people down as they come in but close quarters does not favour them.

    I think MCU team takes it but it's a tough fight. Ja-Yoon will make them work for it.

    3) Team Martial Arts
    Huo Yuanjia (Fearless)
    Detective Ma and Tony (Flash Point): Feat
    Wong Fei Hung (Drunken Master series)
    Ip Man and The Northerner (Ip man series)
    Chen Zhen and General Fujita (Fist of Legend)
    Rama and Mad Dog (The Raid)
    Ito and Arian (The Night Comes for Us): Feat
    Danny the Dog (Unleashed)

    Takes place in a large prison cafeteria. No weapons for anybody starting out but someone has left kitchen utensils out and there's the tables and such that would otherwise be there.
    Super Soldiers are uniformly stronger and much more durable. Again, they also outnumber this team (21 to 13). There's a skill deficit in favour of team MA and Chen, Fujita and Yuanjia are all pretty wild in terms of their mix of strength, durability and skill but I don't think they can supplant the numbers against them.

    4) Team Yulaw
    Yulaw (The One)

    The team has the numbers and equipment advantage but Yulaw is Yulaw. Takes place with Yulaw standing at the top of the hill on the prison planet that the movie ends in, but utterly empty. Yulaw doesn't know they're coming in this case.

    Yulaw has speed, he's a very well-established bullet timer at the beginning of the film and he gets at least one power-up directly after he establishes that level. He's also more than strong enough and has a ton of skill on his side as well.

    But, it is 21 to 1. I think he can make a solid go of this but he is going to have a tough time since most of the people in this match up are about as strong as he is, even if they are very slow.
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  3. #3
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    I generally agree with everything Nik states above. He knows more about a bunch of them than I do, but the ones I do know, well, that's about how I peg this.

    For the other three fights...

    2. The action heroes (and others) - The super soldiers are physically superior to everyone on the team except perhaps the predator. However, team 2 there has an insane amount of weaponry and the skill to use it, combined with a number of people with frankly superhuman accuracy and an invisible alien with a plasma cannon. This could go either way: miniguns and m60s and SAWs and antitank rockets and other rockets and grenade launchers and assault rifles and traps with claymores and whatever else might attrition enough of the super soldiers on their way into closer range. This could go either way. One or two super soldiers could dismantle the entire team 2 (except perhaps the pred) if they can close. They just need to get there.

    5. Fox Movie folks - A bloodlusted Nightcrawler takes a sword or two from Deadpool then proceeds to kill all of the super soldiers by teleporting the swords into their hearts, basically like he did to the secret service at the beginning of X2 or like Azazel does to tons of people in First Class. Stragglers are going to have issues dealing with Logan, Sabes, Lady Deathstrike and Deadpool, especially given the transportation advantage Nightcrawler can offer. The Fox guys should take a majority.

    6. The super soldiers physically outclass everyone here by a mile except Jess and her mom. They have the best leader in Cap, and 6 (Bucky plus the other 5 super soldiers) stealthy sneaky assassins who are each better than anyone on the other team at finding and eliminating enemies. They have a slight deficit in armament, but you've stuck them in an american city, so that deficit won't last long. I would heavily favor team super soldier.
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  4. #4
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    1. I'm going to disagree with the group here, and say that the Witch Team wins this one after a really tough fight. Reason being is that this is a TEAM fight, and it's not in an open area. The other characters from the Witch movies really just need to hang on/provide some cover for Ja-Yoon/block off attempts to dogpile her, especially since this is an environment where they can limit the amount of people coming at them at the same time - they ARE faster, can move about better. Ja-Yoon should make mincemeat out of any single super-soldier she fights (or even pairs, trios), especially the semi-featless ones; she's going to easily blitz anyone she fights against, even groups, and if she's being serious and actually using knives or guns (and this group has those) she'll flat-out be one-shotting them.

    If it was just her, or in an open area where they could easily mob her, she's not going to take this. But in this scenario, I can see her team hanging in long enough for her to murderstomp a whole whack of the supersoldiers, and that's really all she needs to finish the rest; they're just too, too slow. Is it a guaranteed win? Nope. But I feel her team takes a small majority, albeit with her the only one left standing each and every time.

    2. I'm more or less on the same idea as Big for this one, shaded a little toward the action heroes due to the Predator and Painless.

    3. Like Nik, I feel the supersoldiers are just too numerous and bring too high stats to the table. Sure, some people here might be able to hang on against them, but for the most part no, which just means the dogpile gets worse a short time into the fight.

    4. This is fight number one all over again, EXCEPT no weapons and Yulaw is alone. I feel that's enough to make the difference - the supersoldiers are ridiculously tough against blunt trauma, and while I feel he's going to be blitzing the crap out of them and beating them silly, he's not going to put enough of them down before someone gets their hands on him and the dogpile begins. Or Peggy shanks him.

    ...on the other hand, it's equally possible he notes Peggy's sword, blitzes her, takes the sword, and starts in with that, in which case...yeah, okay, I'm giving this one 50/50. Could go either way, depending if Yulaw gets the sword.

    5. Perfectly fine with Big's interpretation of this one, it makes sense to me. Thanks to the healing and claws, I'm pretty cool with the Wolverine group being able to actually fight one-on-one with the supersoldiers, and Nightcrawler was absolutely terrifying in the movie.

    6. Again, I'm fine with Big's interpretation.

    Mileage may vary. Colour me curious. ^_^
    Last edited by Sharpandpointies; 01-12-2022 at 05:55 AM.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  5. #5
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    As an aside, one of the reasons I view Ja-Yoon's teem taking this is a point Nik also made - she outclasses the supersoldiers in fight scenes where she's clearly playing around for shits and giggles. She's not even trying hard and her feats are superior, especially with regards to speed.

    Here, she's bloodlusted, PIS off.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  6. #6
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    1. I'm going to disagree with the group here, and say that the Witch Team wins this one after a really tough fight. Reason being is that this is a TEAM fight, and it's not in an open area. The other characters from the Witch movies really just need to hang on/provide some cover for Ja-Yoon/block off attempts to dogpile her, especially since this is an environment where they can limit the amount of people coming at them at the same time - they ARE faster, can move about better. Ja-Yoon should make mincemeat out of any single super-soldier she fights (or even pairs, trios), especially the semi-featless ones; she's going to easily blitz anyone she fights against, even groups, and if she's being serious and actually using knives or guns (and this group has those) she'll flat-out be one-shotting them.

    If it was just her, or in an open area where they could easily mob her, she's not going to take this. But in this scenario, I can see her team hanging in long enough for her to murderstomp a whole whack of the supersoldiers, and that's really all she needs to finish the rest; they're just too, too slow. Is it a guaranteed win? Nope. But I feel her team takes a small majority, albeit with her the only one left standing each and every time.
    I don't think this interpretation is outside the realms of possibility. As noted, Ja-Yoon is very much the honey badger amongst the rats here.

    However, I think the numbers are still too steep for my money. Ignoring the cyborgs, and as noted they weren't really that impressive when compared to the super soldiers, of the Witch Team, Nobleman and Knives girl actually have more solid feats that make them dangerous to the Super Soldiers, the other two mooks have some strength and minor speed but not, in my opinion, on the same level. Choi is tough, being able to take hits from Ja-Yoon and not exploding is pretty damn good, but he's not go the demonstrated speed or skill to more than break even with a generic super soldier.

    Let's say that Grey and his boys can account for taking on 4 soldiers (kinda 50/50 how that goes), the two mooks and Choi from the Witch can handle one each (again flip a coin for the result, though I'd back the mooks over generic supersoldiers) and Nobleman and Knives girl able to maybe handle two on one for a while and potentially win albeit with needing time to regenerate. That would still leave a whole 10 soldiers to pursue Ja-Yoon directly.

    As you say, terrain favours the Witch team, they could just hole up in the Horn Room at the back and try and bottleneck them, but I'm dubious that they could hold that for long, especially since Steve, Peggy and John Walker all presumably come with a vibranium shield, no? I agree it's a bloody and messy affair either way and Ja-Yoon has the highest survivability with her regeneration but... eh... being outnumbered by 11 people feels very steep to me.

    3. Like Nik, I feel the supersoldiers are just too numerous and bring too high stats to the table. Sure, some people here might be able to hang on against them, but for the most part, no, which just means the dogpile gets worse a short time into the fight.
    I feel like if we were to add like... I don't know... Jin and Mei from House of Flying Daggers, Li Mu Bai, Jen and Shu Lien from Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon and Tang Long from Wu Xia (Dragon) into the mix, we'd have a much more competitive match on our hands.

    (Also, I just want to bring up Tang Long because Wu Xia (Dragon) was a really fun film and he deserves more recognition.)

    4. This is fight number one all over again, EXCEPT no weapons and Yulaw is alone. I feel that's enough to make the difference - the supersoldiers are ridiculously tough against blunt trauma, and while I feel he's going to be blitzing the crap out of them and beating them silly, he's not going to put enough of them down before someone gets their hands on him and the dogpile begins. Or Peggy shanks him.

    ...on the other hand, it's equally possible he notes Peggy's sword, blitzes her, takes the sword, and starts in with that, in which case...yeah, okay, I'm giving this one 50/50. Could go either way, depending if Yulaw gets the sword.
    Ah, I didn't clock that Peggy has a sword. I agree, that could make things go real bad real fast. I did consider that he might be able to do the same with Steve's shield as well since that thing do kind of cut good.

    Well, putting it out there, why not both actually? Sword and shield, that's a big problem right there.
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  7. #7
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    I don't think this interpretation is outside the realms of possibility. As noted, Ja-Yoon is very much the honey badger amongst the rats here.

    However, I think the numbers are still too steep for my money. Ignoring the cyborgs, and as noted they weren't really that impressive when compared to the super soldiers, of the Witch Team, Nobleman and Knives girl actually have more solid feats that make them dangerous to the Super Soldiers, the other two mooks have some strength and minor speed but not, in my opinion, on the same level. Choi is tough, being able to take hits from Ja-Yoon and not exploding is pretty damn good, but he's not go the demonstrated speed or skill to more than break even with a generic super soldier.

    Let's say that Grey and his boys can account for taking on 4 soldiers (kinda 50/50 how that goes), the two mooks and Choi from the Witch can handle one each (again flip a coin for the result, though I'd back the mooks over generic supersoldiers) and Nobleman and Knives girl able to maybe handle two on one for a while and potentially win albeit with needing time to regenerate. That would still leave a whole 10 soldiers to pursue Ja-Yoon directly.

    As you say, terrain favours the Witch team, they could just hole up in the Horn Room at the back and try and bottleneck them, but I'm dubious that they could hold that for long, especially since Steve, Peggy and John Walker all presumably come with a vibranium shield, no? I agree it's a bloody and messy affair either way and Ja-Yoon has the highest survivability with her regeneration but... eh... being outnumbered by 11 people feels very steep to me.
    For me, it's not 1:1, we account for losses, math. There are tactical considerations at play here that wouldn't make sense in the arena. What Ja-Yoon's team is doing is PREVENTING that 11:1 from happening. Even if one of them gets ripped apart without killing a supersoldier, but blocks off TWO supersoldiers during the time that takes, for example, that's enough. Ja-Yoon just needs to be fighting one, two, or three supersoldiers at a time as her team struggles to hold off the others or delay them, and in an area like Helm's Deep where her team actually holds the mobility advantage, in a running battle that's very possible (especially since some of her team is also rather superior to the supersoldiers).

    Given her blink-movements - all done ridiculously casually - in the second fight if you give her a knife or a gun, she's killing one supersoldier as fast as she can reach that one, or two supersoldiers likely without taking a hit. She's not really taking any damage, in my opinion, until she needs to face three at once, and with her mobility and her group trying to block off the other team from mobbing her all at the same time, I think that's perfectly feasible.

    And any hits they land on her just aren't going to stick. She's healing gunshot wounds in seconds in those scenes. She also doesn't appear to tire, despite injuries, blood loss, healing, fighting at those speeds, etc.

    Meanwhile, she's blink-cutting throats, stabbing people in the heart, shooting them in the head, etc. Grabbing Peggy's sword and Cap's shield after murdering them and continuing the carnage (thanks for that idea!).

    Again, I don't figure she takes every fight. She's vastly superior to the super soldiers, but her team isn't. I figure most of the time her team will play interference long enough/somewhat thin the ranks of the supersoldiers that the 11:1 isn't 11:1 any more by the time her team finally goes down and she's alone; by that time, she has killed numerous super-soldiers herself. And whatever is left potentially isn't at their best. And she slaughters the remainder.

    The rest of the time, say 3-4/10, her team gets taken out too quickly and she IS facing too many of the supersoldiers. Say that 11:1 you mention, or worse.

    Mileage may vary, and I get if it does. This isn't an easy fight.

    I feel like if we were to add like... I don't know... Jin and Mei from House of Flying Daggers, Li Mu Bai, Jen and Shu Lien from Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon and Tang Long from Wu Xia (Dragon) into the mix, we'd have a much more competitive match on our hands.
    Works for me.

    Ah, I didn't clock that Peggy has a sword. I agree, that could make things go real bad real fast. I did consider that he might be able to do the same with Steve's shield as well since that thing do kind of cut good.

    Well, putting it out there, why not both actually? Sword and shield, that's a big problem right there.
    Ugh, yes. Thanks to that point, I'm now backing Yulaw for 6/10 as he has two potential weapons he can take from people he blitzes.
    Last edited by Sharpandpointies; 01-12-2022 at 06:18 AM.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  8. #8
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    (Also, I just want to bring up Tang Long because Wu Xia (Dragon) was a really fun film and he deserves more recognition.)
    *posts vigorously about Tang Long*



    Fight Scene 01

    Versus Final Boss Involves throwing around children.

    this film was such a lot of fun.
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    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Okay, I need to watch these clips.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  10. #10
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    For me, it's not 1:1, we account for losses, math. There are tactical considerations at play here that wouldn't make sense in the arena. What Ja-Yoon's team is doing is PREVENTING that 11:1 from happening. Even if one of them gets ripped apart without killing a supersoldier, but blocks off TWO supersoldiers during the time that takes, for example, that's enough. Ja-Yoon just needs to be fighting one, two, or three supersoldiers at a time as her team struggles to hold off the others or delay them, and in an area like Helm's Deep where her team actually holds the mobility advantage, in a running battle that's very possible (especially since some of her team is also rather superior to the supersoldiers).

    Given her blink-movements - all done ridiculously casually - in the second fight if you give her a knife or a gun, she's killing one supersoldier as fast as she can reach that one, or two supersoldiers likely without taking a hit. She's not really taking any damage, in my opinion, until she needs to face three at once, and with her mobility and her group trying to block off the other team from mobbing her all at the same time, I think that's perfectly feasible.

    And any hits they land on her just aren't going to stick. She's healing gunshot wounds in seconds in those scenes. She also doesn't appear to tire, despite injuries, blood loss, healing, fighting at those speeds, etc.

    Meanwhile, she's blink-cutting throats, stabbing people in the heart, shooting them in the head, etc. Grabbing Peggy's sword and Cap's shield after murdering them and continuing the carnage (thanks for that idea!).

    Again, I don't figure she takes every fight. She's vastly superior to the super soldiers, but her team isn't. I figure most of the time her team will play interference long enough/somewhat thin the ranks of the supersoldiers that the 11:1 isn't 11:1 any more by the time her team finally goes down and she's alone; by that time, she has killed numerous super-soldiers herself. And whatever is left potentially isn't at their best. And she slaughters the remainder.

    The rest of the time, say 3-4/10, her team gets taken out too quickly and she IS facing too many of the supersoldiers. Say that 11:1 you mention, or worse.

    Mileage may vary, and I get if it does. This isn't an easy fight.
    I don't disagree with any of that, I can get behind it.

    I also think it's worth noting that for all her feats, Ja-Yoon was demonstrably playing around at the end of the film. We have to wait for the sequel to hopefully see her going all out but given that she's effortlessly snuffing people who themselves are above super soldier stats with that little effort, I think your point about her in serious mode just being "flash step, throat slit," is too much to overcome because she'll always be moving that quick.
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    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    Okay, I need to watch these clips.
    The film is definitely worth checking out. It's a little bit wild and I'm not sure it quite sticks the ending but some of the choreography and concepts for fight scenes are really well executed.

    Donnie Yen doing excellent work.
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    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    I don't disagree with any of that, I can get behind it.

    I also think it's worth noting that for all her feats, Ja-Yoon was demonstrably playing around at the end of the film. We have to wait for the sequel to hopefully see her going all out but given that she's effortlessly snuffing people who themselves are above super soldier stats with that little effort, I think your point about her in serious mode just being "flash step, throat slit," is too much to overcome because she'll always be moving that quick.
    Indeed. We've both noted that all of that stuff is her goofing around, casually (you did above, I recall noting it in another rumbles and did agree with you above in another post). Even the massive front-kick is done in more of a 'hmph, get out of my face' fashion than anything. PIS off/Bloodlust on, she's just going to be choppy/stabby/shootinhead all the way through the fight.

    I'm tempted to revise my estimation to the supers taking about 2-3 out of 10, the more I consider it; her speed is just too insane, and she just doesn't get tired or debilitated by whatever injuries she DOES take.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    The film is definitely worth checking out. It's a little bit wild and I'm not sure it quite sticks the ending but some of the choreography and concepts for fight scenes are really well executed.

    Donnie Yen doing excellent work.
    Even when I'm not interested in the subject matter (Ip Man/Wing Chun for example) Donnie is always great to watch. What I've watched of these fights looks good in a classical Wuxia style. ^_^ Thanks for the recommend!
    Last edited by Sharpandpointies; 01-12-2022 at 08:39 AM.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  13. #13
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Just noticed something else in the 2nd Ja-Yoon fight. Right at the start, she gets superspeed hit and slammed into a metal door hard enough that the door itself tears through the stone frame, flies across the room, hits the wall all dented and caved it (and looking like it would have continued quite a distance further were there not a stone wall). That's a hit on the level of something the supersoldiers would put out, likely close to their top-end if not at it.

    Look at her face when she and the door hit the wall and fall to the floor.

    She's not even fazed.

    She hits the wall, falls to land on her rear, but is already looking around in mild surprise. That's it - no dazed look, no shake of the head, not even closing of the eyes. She then gets to her feet like she's standing up from having a nap - no wincing, slowness, shifts of the body to indicate she's rolling her shoulders or anything, just 'meh, stand up' - and brushes off her clothes while not even looking at her attacker.

    The hit was clearly nothing to her. It launched her because of its power versus her body weight, but appears to have done effectively zero damage.

    My estimation of the supersoldiers' (poor) odds continues to drop.
    Last edited by Sharpandpointies; 01-12-2022 at 09:08 AM.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  14. #14
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Kind of impressive that Nobleman was able to snap her forearm with a lock given her ridiculous blunt force trauma.
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  15. #15
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    Kind of impressive that Nobleman was able to snap her forearm with a lock given her ridiculous blunt force trauma.
    Absolutely. Nobleman is weaker than Ja-Yoon. But he's fast enough to almost keep up with her when she's not using the blink-speed and toying with him (he manages to block some of her hits, he occasionally manages to land a hit of his own). He's strong enough to use skill and damage her arm when she's just playing around, half-serious (on top of his other, very-clear strength feats). He's tough enough that he takes the kick that puts him through the wall, gets up, and keeps doing some pretty impressive things despite his clear injuries. I would easily place him above the supersoldiers as well, if less than Ja-Yoon.

    Edit: Which, when I consider it, means that the supersoldiers are easily 'two steps' below Ja-Yoon in this match in terms of the people involved, which means it's kind of like 'a bunch of Huntresses against Original Cass', subbing out 'knife and pistol' for 'pressure point strikes'. O_o
    Last edited by Sharpandpointies; 01-12-2022 at 09:27 AM.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

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