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  1. #76
    2022: The Year of Hellion Rift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Habis View Post
    Can Codex-X even be used to affect a wide area? Can that weapon even exist...?
    If the writers will it, sure. Area-wide power-dampening technology already exists, so it's perfectly within the realm of possibility. Plus it's made by Reed, who has made things like time machines and portals to other worlds - if anyone could make a tool that powerful, it'd be him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Habis View Post
    Also, think another scenario: Old School mass produced Sentinels attack; somebody flips a switch and suddenly the Sentinels don't know who is a mutant and who isn't so they go away...

    I think Codex-X potential for good outweighs its potential dangers.
    Or Sentinels just blow people up without worrying who's human. I'm sure a lot of people using Sentinels wouldn't be too upset if a few humans died to wipe out the vast majority of mutants, and Nimrod and Karima don't care about humans at all.

    It has uses, but it could easily be used for bad in the wrong hands. And pretty much everyone, including other mutants, could abuse it. But if the device had to be used, it should be in the hands of mutants. It should be theirs to use as they see fit, and not be in the hands of someone who could potentially use it against them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post
    Hellion is the talk of the boards and rightfully so.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rift View Post
    If the writers will it, sure. Area-wide power-dampening technology already exists, so it's perfectly within the realm of possibility. Plus it's made by Reed, who has made things like time machines and portals to other worlds - if anyone could make a tool that powerful, it'd be him.


    Or Sentinels just blow people up without worrying who's human. I'm sure a lot of people using Sentinels wouldn't be too upset if a few humans died to wipe out the vast majority of mutants, and Nimrod and Karima don't care about humans at all.

    It has uses, but it could easily be used for bad in the wrong hands. And pretty much everyone, including other mutants, could abuse it. But if the device had to be used, it should be in the hands of mutants. It should be theirs to use as they see fit, and not be in the hands of someone who could potentially use it against them.
    I mean it used to be cannon that Sentinels determined all humans are mutants and all mutants are humans. Apparently that was too egalitarian for some people so they switched it back.

    Sigh I miss Master Mold and the original Nimrod

  3. #78
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    There's more than enough room in that story for both Xavier and Reed to be entitled assholes. Much like there's plenty of room in MOST stories containing both Xavier and Reed. Not sure why we need to act like one was in the right and one in the wrong when 'both can be wrong actually' is right there on the table the whole time. Both these characters have a huge history of playing God with the lives of everyone on the planet and feeling completely justified, and for all the times that Reed's saved the world, there's just as many where his inability to just say no to his scientific curiosity has created the very situations that end up endangering lives or even the entire world. He's not the automatic hero of this story just by virtue of being in opposition to Xavier. He's a man of enormous power, intellect and resources, as well as his own issues with entitlement and believing he knows best, who has on multiple occasions made choices that impacted the entire world without consulting anyone else or being accountable to any authority other than his own. Y'know, literally the EXACT SAME THINGS he's holding against Xavier. The call is coming from inside the house here, Reed.

    Just saying, Xavier's a douche and has been for decades if not always, and he's done wrong by literal children entrusted in his care way too often to have any kind of moral high ground to stand on when it comes to Reed's fuck ups with his own kids - but yes, if your go to move upon assuming your teenage son will ignore your wish that he not go to Krakoa and why is to literally create a technology that keeps him from interacting with resources people sharing his son's historically oppressed identity set up specifically TO be utilized by any and all people sharing that identity....that's a fuck up. You wanna talk using a big gun right out the gate, Reed went straight for the 'cut his son off from even being able to access this community that includes not just villains and duplicitous people, but many of the very same heroes Reed has helped save the world with time after time' option. We sure didn't see him spend much time exploring other options like, oh, sitting his son down and making sure to convey just what exactly his concerns were AS WELL AS listening to his son about just WHY it was so important to him to explore Krakoa and this part of his identity.

    Y'know, trusting in his son's intelligence and getting a sense of his thoughts on this issue that was ABOUT his son and his thoughts on his identity and potential community and NOT Reed's personal view of these things, and like, maybe practicing some super-communication. Was that guaranteed to get both father and son on the same page and agreeing on a course forward? Nope. But the telling part is that Reed skipped straight past that to heavy-handedly TURNING OFF the very possibility of his teenage son exploring his identity in ways or on a time table other than what Reed himself approved of when clearly, Reed still hadn't made much of a priority of even trying to understand what Franklin was hoping to learn or discover about himself. Reed's entire MO is that he prides himself on being able to find a solution to any problem. That's his starting point to literally everything he invents, attempts, discovers. His process ALWAYS starts by him deciding on a problem, and then coming up with a fix for it. But this technology he came up with in FF/X-Men was not a solution to a problem any mutant brought to him, asked him for help with. It is not something he invented because a mutant said I don't want to be a mutant or I don't want to be able to go through a gate or I don't want to be able to be detected by Cerebro. Its something he invented in response to the problem of how do I keep my son from going to Krakoa before I'M ready for him to, no matter what. Not even something he invented to solve the problem "how can I get my son to understand my concerns, how do I get him to see he has time and its okay to wait, how do I get a better sense of WHY he thinks this needs to happen NOW, how do I find a way both of us can be okay with him going to Krakoa and exploring while addressing my concerns about that."

    Nah. What Reed invented, no matter how understandable his intentions of wanting to keep his son safe from harm and having understandable concerns about various elements of Krakoa.....was at the end of the day, nothing short of a solution to the problem of a mutant son he couldn't control and saw no hope of getting to listen to his parental authority, so "better if I control when and in what ways he's able to identify as a mutant, at a pace that's convenient for me and Franklin is forced to change to accommodate, rather than me and my preferred pace changing to accommodate what's most convenient for him."

    You can put a pretty spin on it, but there were SO many other options available for Reed before leaping to 'solutions that have a disturbingly large overlap with past fixes to the mutant problem by literally every Marvel villain to attempt mutant genocide.' He could have met and discussed his concerns with mutant heroes he did trust, like ones he's literally trusted as members of the Fantastic Four and who have free access to come and go from his home without interference from his security measures. This includes Kate, Bobby, Storm, Logan, and more. He could have met with mutant heroes he knew and trusted and additionally felt confident were not blindly loyal to any of the leading figures on Krakoa, like Firestar or Justice, and seen if they would be willing to explore Krakoa in context of his specific concerns and give him a sense of how safe Franklin would be there. He could have asked Justice or Firestar or Storm or Bobby to personally chaperone Franklin on an initial visit or two to Krakoa, give him a chance to at least test the waters there under the adult supervision of one of the people Reed's trusted Franklin's life and safety with before.

    He could have met Franklin half way in any number of ways, and then used this to elicit some more cooperation from Franklin's end of things, like, he still doesn't want Franklin coming and going from Krakoa all the time or without his parents knowing and he'll be grounded if he breaks the rules his parents set up for him to do these things. But in exchange he's willing to let Franklin go to Krakoa or maybe have friends from Krakoa over to the Baxter Building or have one of the Krakoan omegas he trusts like Jean or Bobby mentor Franklin at the Baxter Building or just be more of a presence in Franklin's life, available for Franklin to talk to and ask questions about mutant culture or struggles or other things Franklin feels his family can't help him with because they don't know the answers any more than he does.

    But nope. All of those still ran the pesky risk of people who aren't Reed possibly making choices Reed doesn't approve of on the grounds of he knows what's right and that wasn't it. Ironically the very thing Reed holds against Xavier and accuses him of doing with his mutant power just like Xavier accuses him of utilizing his inventions to do much the same. Weird, its almost like these two dudes who joined the same 'let's secretly rule the world because we alone know what the world really needs' club and spent years agreeing that they knew better than everyone else and thus were fine utilizing each other's inventions and mutant power to steer world events behind the scenes so long as they both were on the same page about everyone ELSE being not as smart.....like, could they maybe both be....not right about how they always know best and haters just be bonkers?

    Anyway. For the record, I don't blame Reed for being pissed that Xavier showed no respect for boundaries and used his unique resources to mess with something fundamental to Reed's very identity - his intellect - and that based solely on the grounds that he felt he knows best, he took a personal idea belonging to just Reed and denied him the right to utilize it because he felt Reed couldn't be trusted to make the right choice with it and thus it shouldn't be left in his hands so there wasn't even a possibility of him using it in ways Xavier felt was unsafe or wrong.

    I mean, sure must suck when somebody thinks the only solution to you making decisions they don't like or that they deem unsafe, is to just authoritatively use invasive measures to mess with your very identity and remove all possibility of you doing the thing they think you shouldn't do and they don't trust you to ever understand or grasp no matter how they put it, thus meaning there's just no point in trying to get you to agree with them and its more expedient to just skip to the part where they take the choice out of your hands and render any disagreement you might have irrelevant.

    What must that be like, Reed? Wonder if there's anybody in your family who can relate.

    tl;dr version - If this story were an Am I The Asshole reddit thread, I'd be circling the 'everyone here sucks' option.

  4. #79

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    All well said, BobbysWorld. For me it was never about who was right and who was wrong, it was about both making questionable decisions and how those decisions would impact them and those around them.

    I wasn't a fan of the mini because everyone sounded weird to me, but I'm intrigued with this whole thing being picked up again.
    Krakoa and Arakko forever! Justice for Hellion!

  5. #80
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    So this is the last issue of the Reign of X era as well as Hickman's I thought it was a decent read looping back to Reed makes me think we're gonna have a X-Men vs FF.

    Moreover, it seems like the X-Men are being folded back into the 616 before they were cursory characters or background characters but now it seems like they will actually be involved in the larger 616 stuff and not be sequestered in their corner of the universe.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post
    All well said, BobbysWorld. For me it was never about who was right and who was wrong, it was about both making questionable decisions and how those decisions would impact them and those around them.

    I wasn't a fan of the mini because everyone sounded weird to me, but I'm intrigued with this whole thing being picked up again.
    Oh I know, that definitely wasn't aimed at every post on the subject, lol. And as you said, the writing was incredibly heavy-handed, though I don't honestly see it as all that OOC for Reed OR Xavier given how both have been written at many points in the past. I'm fine with the plot being revisited, as long as its not all one-sided and acknowledgment is made that both made screwed up calls. Tbh, I think this depiction of Kate was more OOC than either of the two of them in that mini - I get Reed getting up in his feels because he doesn't like feeling vulnerable and is particularly insecure about his greatest weapon, his mind, being rendered ineffective. But if they were gonna do this plot again and use Kate to advance it, I wish we could've gotten her at least offering Reed a little side-eye about his reasons for wanting that idea back so bad, and like, questioning whether it was more about Reed's wounded pride. Kate I feel should be solidly on Team Franklin in that whole thing and thus I wouldn't have minded seeing her balance like yeah, asking for help, but not forgetting his part in the whole mess or that he'd felt inspired to CREATE the damn thing in the first place. There's ways to sell that interaction other than what we got, but ah well.

    Tbh I am surprised that it did get revisited at all, because I figured they wouldn't want to touch on any of that again just because of the Franklin-not-a-mutant retcon.

  7. #82
    Astonishing Member CoCoBandz's Avatar
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    Charles is gonna have to make Richards his bitch again.
    The Krakoans are EEEvil!

    THEY MUST BE STOPPED!

  8. #83
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    Oh please. Last time Reed was not enough to bring a pair-blocker. Reed, if he really wanted to, could beat the crap out Charles eight different ways. Up to and including the Ultimate Nullifier if he still has it.

  9. #84
    Astonishing Member CoCoBandz's Avatar
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    Charles would put him in coma.
    The Krakoans are EEEvil!

    THEY MUST BE STOPPED!

  10. #85
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    Any actual reasoning behind that one?

  11. #86
    Incredible Member Doom'nGloom's Avatar
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    I don't know who is justified to do what and at this point with all the shady stuff going around in Krakoa I really don't care. All I know is Reed is one dangerous son of a gun as his many alternate versions have proven in the past. Chuck played with fire at the end of X/F4 mini and I want to see him get burned.
    Last edited by Doom'nGloom; 01-13-2022 at 12:24 AM.

  12. #87
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    As a more practical point, Reed absolutely needed to be mind wiped of potential weapon, but doing so and telling Reed ‘problem solver’ Richards exactly what you’ve done to him AND then to drop Franklin after all that in the most cack-handed way is… dumb.

    Like “let’s not develop any social services for our nation of 500k and growing because that’s a human concept” dumb

  13. #88
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saithor View Post
    I mean it used to be cannon that Sentinels determined all humans are mutants and all mutants are humans. Apparently that was too egalitarian for some people so they switched it back.

    Sigh I miss Master Mold and the original Nimrod
    "The minority is exactly the same as the majority without any real difference" is the kind of well-intentioned message from 40 years ago that today has aged quite poorly.

    Like "Call me Alex" level bad.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saithor View Post
    I mean it used to be cannon that Sentinels determined all humans are mutants and all mutants are humans. Apparently that was too egalitarian for some people so they switched it back.

    Sigh I miss Master Mold and the original Nimrod
    Setting aside the obvious ‘not how evolution works’ nature of the mutants and the all the various comics tropes not really translating all that well to a metaphor for minorities, that was primarily Trask being an exceptionally poor programmer

    I do however miss OG Nimrod, he’d probably kill Orchis!Nimrod on principle

  15. #90
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    So anywho, I feel like this is perhaps the first issue that made some serious use of *everyone,* not just Emma and Kate, but Bishop and Pyro got a side-gig, Callisto stabbed some fool in the neck a bunch, Iceman beat up some Frost Giants, Shaw, of all people, got some development, etc. Of those on the cover, only Tempo failed to show, and she's technically not part of the crew quite yet, I think, so that's okay for now.

    It is a bit 'eh' that it took over three years of the Emma and Kate show, guest-starring 'those other guys,' to get here, but hey, Marauders has finally arrived!

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