Vance Astrovik: Justice Appreciation 2022

[Chris0013]

For a guy with such a long and well developed history he seems to have been missing for too long. The guy needs some love.

[Hypestyle]

has he had any solo mini series? I don't think he's had an ongoing.

like Firestar he's a mutant who has scarcely had any relationship with the X-Men titles. (Or none at all?) Most of the attention for telekinetics tends to be on women (Jean Grey, etc.)

He could work on a new team.

So is it time for a name change? Marvel Boy didn't last and had similar generic-ness as Jean's former moniker. Justice lasted, it was available, but is it even descriptive?

[Chris0013]

has he had any solo mini series? I don't think he's had an ongoing.

like Firestar he's a mutant who has scarcely had any relationship with the X-Men titles. (Or none at all?) Most of the attention for telekinetics tends to be on women (Jean Grey, etc.)

He could work on a new team.

So is it time for a name change? Marvel Boy didn't last and had similar generic-ness as Jean's former moniker. Justice lasted, it was available, but is it even descriptive?

He had at least 1 limited series that I remember.

[MitchFox]

Vance Astrovik is my favorite New Warrior besides Speedball, Silhouette, Hummingbird and Sun Girl.

I hated how Outlawed storyline turned Vance and his friends into jerks for no apparent reason other than cheap drama. And it's worse when the New Warriors comic which is supposed to be a tie-in to Outlawed (and explain the elder New Warriors' OOC behavior) remained unreleased. Due to the backlash on the New Warriors, the reputation is going to take a long time to recover unless a writer who cares about them, redeems the New Warriors.

[Dermie]

Vance Astrovik is my favorite New Warrior besides Speedball, Silhouette, Hummingbird and Sun Girl.

Vance is my favourite Warrior as well, with Silhouette and Turbo (Mickey) close behind.

I hated how Outlawed storyline turned Vance and his friends into jerks for no apparent reason other than cheap drama. And it's worse when the New Warriors comic which is supposed to be a tie-in to Outlawed (and explain the elder New Warriors' OOC behavior) remained unreleased. Due to the backlash on the New Warriors, the reputation going to take a long time to recover unless a writer who cares about them, redeems the New Warriors.

It really IS unfortunate that a project telling the Warriors' side of the "Outlawed" event never got released. I don't really agree that it turned them into jerks though--but I can see how they look like jerks for working with C.R.A.D.L.E. who were the bad guys of the arc (although they were just enforcing the law--it was the Roxxon-run internment camp that was truly the villains of the piece). But the Warriors definitely have reason to see the potential merits in Kamala's Law, given their own history with the Stamford incident, and Vance's experience accidentally killing his father.

Its important to remember that teen heroes weren't being entirely outlawed--they were supposed to work with an adult mentor for training and guidance. Vance and Speedball both worked at Avengers Academy to train teenage superheroes (and Vance was also on-staff at the Initiative's Camp Hammond), so there definitely is established basis for Vance and Robbie to want to try and help young heroes to avoid repeating some of the same mistakes they made and suffering some of the same tragedies. I really think Vance and Robbie's motivations for working with C.R.A.D.L.E. were all about helping young heroes, just like they did with Avengers Academy--having been teen heroes themselves (and ones who had that experience go sideways on them) they figured it was better for them to try and go after the kids rather than someone who would be less sympathetic and less understanding of what they're facing. its just that in the CHAMPIONS arc we never really got to see their side of the story get presented.

I do hope someone brings back the Warriors and does something with them to get past the stain of the "Outlawed" arc though -- there is a lot more to them than this one storyline, so they don't deserve to be remembered just for this.

I would be curious to see how Vance feels about the current situation with the mutant community and Krakoa, etc. I don't see Vance choosing to move to Krakoa--he's never exactly associated much with the rest of the larger mutant community--but that doesn't mean he wouldn't have any feelings or opinions about it, or be curious to visit, etc.

[Midnight_v]

I would be curious to see how Vance feels about the current situation with the mutant community and Krakoa, etc. I don't see Vance choosing to move to Krakoa--he's never exactly associated much with the rest of the larger mutant community--but that doesn't mean he wouldn't have any feelings or opinions about it, or be curious to visit, etc.

I believe he would be against it 1000%. He's basically in many ways Captain America. I never forget that he's Major Victory in the future, and thats how marvel was introduced to that character for decades.

I really would like to see him be "More" in a lot of ways. What form that takes is up for grabs

[Dermie]

I believe he would be against it 1000%. He's basically in many ways Captain America.

Why do you think Vance would be so strongly opposed to mutants having their own country? Given that Vance has occasionally been a victim of anti-mutant prejudice (including from his own father), I think he would see the advantages to it, even if he didn't choose to participate himself. Steve Rogers hasn't spoken out against it either -- as long as the mutants don't end up declaring war on humanity, I don't see Cap having much problem with it in principle. He may not care for every single thing Krakoan society does, but I don't think he'd opposed to it in general.

I never forget that he's Major Victory in the future, and thats how marvel was introduced to that character for decades.

I love Major Victory too. I'm not sure I really see Justice ultimately taking that same path though--his life has diverged significantly from Vance Astro's in so many ways. But its true that the childhood hero worship of Cap is a big part of both of them in terms of shaping their attitudes towards heroism.

[Midnight_v]

Why do you think Vance would be so strongly opposed to mutants having their own country? Given that Vance has occasionally been a victim of anti-mutant prejudice (including from his own father), I think he would see the advantages to it, even if he didn't choose to participate himself. Steve Rogers hasn't spoken out against it either -- as long as the mutants don't end up declaring war on humanity, I don't see Cap having much problem with it in principle. He may not care for every single thing Krakoan society does, but I don't think he'd opposed to it in general.



I love Major Victory too. I'm not sure I really see Justice ultimately taking that same path though--his life has diverged significantly from Vance Astro's in so many ways. But its true that the childhood hero worship of Cap is a big part of both of them in terms of shaping their attitudes towards heroism.

Oh because deep down. People like him would believe that the system works. Narratively there's a good reason he's never been affiliated with the X-teams. He's an avenger through and through. Moreover, he'd definitely look at the krakoa situation and really separatism in general as a bad thing. We're talking about someone who certainly believes in *ahem* "Truth, Justice, and the American Way." to turn a phrase.

Listen to every complaint about the Krokoa story from its detractors and then consider how it might look to people inside the universe. Its another Magneto island to most people, it another mutant strong hold. Its another group of mutants making demands and threats at the united nations "again". The media alone would tear their image to shreds.

They are a dangerous, and reckless foreigner power, led by terrorists, supremist, and villain's of every ilk.

So while cap and them haven't said or done anything its probably more because its the mutant quarantine island, and good, because there's no way that doesn't end in disaster. Its not like they haven't tried it before.

But... lets get back to Vance specifically... He's a big picture guy, he's met with his futures self, allowed himself to be jailed saved the world a time or 2... left the world a time or two, hell he's friends with Nova prime.
He knows there are a LOT bigger threats to the world that what the mutants are afraid of. At the end of the day he's way more worried about ultron than nimrod.

[danielsan52]

I miss Vance. He needs to go to Krakoa and make it home.

[Chris0013]

Why do you think Vance would be so strongly opposed to mutants having their own country? Given that Vance has occasionally been a victim of anti-mutant prejudice (including from his own father), I think he would see the advantages to it, even if he didn't choose to participate himself. Steve Rogers hasn't spoken out against it either -- as long as the mutants don't end up declaring war on humanity, I don't see Cap having much problem with it in principle. He may not care for every single thing Krakoan society does, but I don't think he'd opposed to it in general.



I love Major Victory too. I'm not sure I really see Justice ultimately taking that same path though--his life has diverged significantly from Vance Astro's in so many ways. But its true that the childhood hero worship of Cap is a big part of both of them in terms of shaping their attitudes towards heroism.

I wouldn't say that Vance's father was anti-mutant...he was "anti-normal". Vance's father was gay and when Grandpappy found him with another guy he beat him into conformity. Vance could very well have not had his powers activated and been punk or goth or any other alternative sub culture and his father would have abused him back to conformity. Vance is really just a victim of the cycle of abuse in that regard.

Another thing with Vance is that he has not defined himself by his X-Gene. That is part of him but not the only thing that defines him.

He could have run after killing his father but didn't and accepted responsibility. When in prison he help bring about reforms like letting Terraformer have a plant to commune with for his health. He trained with the Guardsman while locked up. He was trusted by the warden and guards. His took college courses in prison and when released was allowed back into Columbia University.

I miss Vance. He needs to go to Krakoa and make it home.

Hell no...Vance needs to come out against Krakoa. Remind mutants that every time a 'mutant nation' has been tried it ends in disaster.

[LAWtoyoto 432]

I miss Vance. He needs to go to Krakoa and make it home.

Ironic, his ex-lover Firestar is now among the candidate voter to join the X-Men team this year.

[Dermie]

I wouldn't say that Vance's father was anti-mutant...he was "anti-normal". Vance's father was gay and when Grandpappy found him with another guy he beat him into conformity. Vance could very well have not had his powers activated and been punk or goth or any other alternative sub culture and his father would have abused him back to conformity. Vance is really just a victim of the cycle of abuse in that regard.

That is certainly true enough, but it doesn't change the fact that when Vance's father was yelling at him, hitting him, etc, he was blaming it on the fact that Vance was a mutant. Regardless of what the true motivation behind Arnold's hate and anger, when Vance was getting beat and abused he was being told, for years and by someone he loved, that it was because he was a mutant.

When Vance learned about his father's own abuse for his sexuality after Arnold's death, it would help Vance better understand the true context of that abuse--but it doesn't erase the fact that years of verbal and physical violence directed against him were linked to him being a mutant.

And his dad was not the only one to spout anti-mutant abuse at him either. We saw it happen in NEW WARRIORS in protests that were directed against him when he was paroled from prison. There were also references to anti-mutant complaints about him, Firestar and Scarlet Witch during his stint as an Avenger.

Another thing with Vance is that he has not defined himself by his X-Gene. That is part of him but not the only thing that defines him.

Absolutely, and I have always enjoyed that about him. Not every mutant has to be the property of the X-books, after all.

[danielsan52]

I think he should take over as Captain Krakoa and leave Justice behind.

I haven't read much about him since he was (great) in the 50 State Initiative. I miss seeing him in a current book.

[Chris0013]

I think he should take over as Captain Krakoa and leave Justice behind.

I haven't read much about him since he was (great) in the 50 State Initiative. I miss seeing him in a current book.

Vance as Captain Krakoa would suck. Keep him away from the Krakoa nonsense.

[kevlon]

He was my favourite character in the new warriors. I really didn't like how he was written in Avengers. He was too much of a fan boy.

He doesn't seem to get many appearances now so I'd be happy for him to pop up anywhere.

In fact I'd love for him to take a trip to soaceyanf join the guardians.