Would you like OMD to be undone?

[emac1790]

To everybody here, was the marriage really that special? I didn't mind the marriage myself, but if you picked up a random ASM from the 90's and if it didn't state somewhere in the book that MJ and Peter were married, would you know they were married?

Perhaps the problem was the writers couldn't write a married couple well.

Full disclosure, I don't think that David Michelinie was a good Spider-Man writer. Other than the Venom stuff (some of this, too), this was the most boring Spider-Man I ever read.

[Coal Tiger]

No. They've all written their stuff under Quesada's vision. Not surprisingly, Quesada doesn't let people who don't agree with his vision write Spider-Man.

So, Quesada's cronies continue to further his vision? Big surprise.

Raimi's Spider-Man trilogy was written under Quesada's vision? The 94 animated series was written under Quesada's vision? People who Quesada can neither hire nor fire were writing under his vision? I think you are mistaken.

[emac1790]

Crapped on the Spider-Man (and indeed, the Marvel Universe as a whole) that I was enjoying. Nothing more need be done.



They give me the gist of the story. That's enough.



Almost ten years and not a single storyline that even interests me enough to check it out. Sounds to me like it's way past time to give up on Spider-Man.



And Marvel is ruled by Joe Quesada. He shapes the current vision of Spider-Man and the Marvel Universe as a whole.

When he leaves, or if these reboot rumors we keep hearing turn out to be true, I'll consider re-evaluating my position. Not before.



Do a quick little search of this forum. See how many times I've posted on here.

I'll save you some time: not many. I generally avoid this forum altogether. I've made my choice to not touch anything "Spider"-related, and for the most part, I stay out of discussions about such matters.

I never commented on any of the, say, Superior Spider-Man discussions. Why? Because I didn't read them and anything I would've said on them would've been me talking out of my ass.

This thread is discussing a topic on which I can actually speak from genuine experience. Hence? I decided to speak up.

This is HARDLY me "whining about everything with 'spider' in the title." This is me expressing my opinion on exactly why OMD turned me into a Spider-Man non-fan.

Lots of people don't agree with me? That's fine. I don't let other people decide what I like and don't like, however, so those sales figures mean nothing to me in the long run. I'll just go right on not reading a bunch of stories that don't appeal to me in any way, and keep on hoping that Marvel really is rebooting soon. If they don't? I've lived without Spider-Man for almost ten years now. I see no reason why I can't live without him another ten years.



No. They've all written their stuff under Quesada's vision. Not surprisingly, Quesada doesn't let people who don't agree with his vision write Spider-Man.

So, Quesada's cronies continue to further his vision? Big surprise.

If you don't like the current direction, that's great. You realize others like it, that's great, too.

Oh, Quesada doesn't run Marvel as the EIC anymore. Who's to say anyone will bring back what you're looking for.

[Vanguard-01]

To everybody here, was the marriage really that special? I didn't mind the marriage myself, but if you picked up a random ASM from the 90's and if it didn't state somewhere in the book that MJ and Peter were married, would you know they were married?

Yes. It was that special. I grew up with it and I loved MJ in the book.

I'll ask myself another question related to your own. "Would you have been able to accept the dissolution of the marriage if it had been better-written or handled?"

The answer? Also "Yes." I loved the marriage. Could I have accepted the ending of the marriage? Sure, if it were done in a way that showed me, and the characters involved, even the tiniest little bit of respect.

I hate OMD because it felt like a giant "Eff you!" to me personally. Quesada's condescending and dismissive attitude toward those of us who weren't happy with the story only furthered that feeling.

If Quesada wanted to show me any respect at all, he would've ended the marriage in a way that made a lick of sense. THEN, he would've done his interviews and actually TRIED to convince me that he didn't do this just to crap on me. I didn't get any of that. I got a crappy story with a crappy characterization of Spider-Man, and then I basically got "Screw you, if you don't like it" from the guy who made it all happen.

A better story and a little sympathy, and maybe I wouldn't have developed the bitterness I have about Spider-Man today.

Perhaps the problem was the writers couldn't write a married couple well.

No one will ever convince me that this isn't the real reason for the marriage-hate.

[emac1790]

Yes. It was that special. I grew up with it and I loved MJ in the book.

I'll ask myself another question related to your own. "Would you have been able to accept the dissolution of the marriage if it had been better-written or handled?"

The answer? Also "Yes." I loved the marriage. Could I have accepted the ending of the marriage? Sure, if it were done in a way that showed me, and the characters involved, even the tiniest little bit of respect.

I hate OMD because it felt like a giant "Eff you!" to me personally. Quesada's condescending and dismissive attitude toward those of us who weren't happy with the story only furthered that feeling.

If Quesada wanted to show me any respect at all, he would've ended the marriage in a way that made a lick of sense. THEN, he would've done his interviews and actually TRIED to convince me that he didn't do this just to crap on me. I didn't get any of that. I got a crappy story with a crappy characterization of Spider-Man, and then I basically got "Screw you, if you don't like it" from the guy who made it all happen.

A better story and a little sympathy, and maybe I wouldn't have developed the bitterness I have about Spider-Man today.



No one will ever convince me that this isn't the real reason for the marriage-hate.

I started reading Spider-Man in '77. So to me, it doesn't matter is MJ and Peter are married or not. I remember when MJ was written out of the books for like 3 or 4 years. It's not that special to me because it's not tied up to my youth.

Also, you do realize that Joe Quesada doesn't personally know you, so writing the marriage away is not a personal FU to you.

It might sound harsh or cold, but why should Quesada have respect for you? He doesn't even know you exist.

[Vanguard-01]

Also, you do realize that Joe Quesada doesn't personally know you, so writing the marriage away is not a personal FU to you.

It might sound harsh or cold, but why should Quesada have respect for you? He doesn't even know you exist.

I fully realize it wasn't a personal gesture. It still felt that way.

Quesada knew damn well that people were going to be upset by this choice. He chose to show no respect or empathy for that entire group of people, of which I am one.

He didn't show respect to the people who didn't like what he did. By extension? He showed no respect to me, whether he knew me personally or not. If I had met him at a con and told him how much I hated OMD? He probably would've told me something along the line of "Too bad. Screw you for not liking it." So, he may as well have said it to my face, because he would have if he had the opportunity.

[5Eyes]

Just because it's basic knowledge to you doesn't mean you can flaunt it as common knowledge to everyone else, and just because I like to vent doesn't excuse you from being too lazy to bother at least attempting to prove me wrong. If you're going to make an argument and cite a source, and someone asks you to back it up, you know what you should be doing? Backing it up.

I'm not gonna argue about Marvel believing the Spider-man Marriage for the general group believe it was a mistake, it isn't that important to me, .. as for flaunting, it not flaunting when you believe its common knowledge as in NOT JUST ME knowing this ..
Like me saying that they did a live Spider-man's marriage in Shea stadium or there is a no smoking policy in Marvel comics, that in the 90's the Death of Superman DC already knew beforehand they were bringing him back or something like Robert Downey Junior wasn't the highest paid actor in the 1st Ironman movie.. For the general populace yes I dont expect them to know that, but here who are major big comic book fan I didn't think I have to look for links or run to library or find some old interview, call DC/Marvel fact checker showing that they said something like that.. And yes it is presumptuous of me but I expect certain big things that people of our standing already know. I also said I guess I was wrong..

[emac1790]

I fully realize it wasn't a personal gesture. It still felt that way.

Quesada knew damn well that people were going to be upset by this choice. He chose to show no respect or empathy for that entire group of people, of which I am one.

He didn't show respect to the people who didn't like what he did. By extension? He showed no respect to me, whether he knew me personally or not. If I had met him at a con and told him how much I hated OMD? He probably would've told me something along the line of "Too bad. Screw you for not liking it." So, he may as well have said it to my face, because he would have if he had the opportunity.

But as you said, if the marriage went away in a better story, you would accept it. The thing is, comics ain't writing by using opinion polls. Quesada knew by writing the marriage out, people would be upset. So you're saying that a writer can't write what they want because it may upset someone? Sorry, but that's dumb. To say he showed you no respect because he wrote a story you didn't like is the height of fan-entitlement.

It's like you're saying Quesada had to confer with you and fans like you before he makes any story. And believe me when I say, if comics were ran like this, there would be no comics made at all in a months time.

[Vanguard-01]

But as you said, if the marriage went away in a better story, you would accept it. The thing is, comics ain't writing by using opinion polls. Quesada knew by writing the marriage out, people would be upset. So you're saying that a writer can't write what they want because it may upset someone? Sorry, but that's dumb. To say he showed you no respect because he wrote a story you didn't like is the height of fan-entitlement.

It's like you're saying Quesada had to confer with you and fans like you before he makes any story. And believe me when I say, if comics were ran like this, there would be no comics made at all in a months time.

I didn't say writers should never write anything because it might upset someone.

Perhaps I should re-phrase? I said earlier that I would've more easily accepted the marriage ending if it had been better-written and if Quesada had shown some respect to those of us who wouldn't be happy about it, even if it had been better-written.

All of that is still true.

Another scenario? OMD happens exactly as it did. Crappy story and all. Okay, I'm upset. I'm not happy. Quesada does an interview or two in which he still shows me (and the rest of the fans who aren't happy) some respect and tries to convince me that he didn't do this to give me the finger. That he thought it was the best thing for the character, and that he understands and regrets that some of us aren't happy. He ends with a promise to try to bring those of us who are unhappy around on the concept of a single Spider-Man.

There you go. My anger is still there. I just lost something I liked. However? I don't feel like the guy who took it from me did so out of any sense of malice or disrespect. The story wasn't great? Oh, well. Bad stories happen. I still want the marriage? Yeah, but at least I don't feel like I've been crapped on. So, sure, I'll give Quesada his chance to bring me around. I'll read some single Spider-Man books to see if I can learn to like this change. Quesada showed me some respect? The least I can do is return that respect by giving him that chance for which he asked.

He knew he would upset people. That was unavoidable. Where he had a choice was in how he chose to address those upset fans. Some basic empathy and a request for a chance would've done wonders. Instead, he basically chose to give the upset fans the finger.

He doesn't have to confer with me. I don't know WHERE you're getting that from. But he should at least show some respect and understanding to the people he knew he was going to piss off. That's really not asking for much.

Anyway. I've said what I came here to say. Sorry if I've pissed anyone off. I certainly wasn't trying to anger anybody, and I hope we can all have good, constructive conversations in future threads.

See? It's not that hard to do.

[Coal Tiger]

I didn't say writers should never write anything because it might upset someone.

Perhaps I should re-phrase? I said earlier that I would've more easily accepted the marriage ending if it had been better-written and if Quesada had shown some respect to those of us who wouldn't be happy about it, even if it had been better-written.

All of that is still true.

Another scenario? OMD happens exactly as it did. Crappy story and all. Okay, I'm upset. I'm not happy. Quesada does an interview or two in which he still shows me (and the rest of the fans who aren't happy) some respect and tries to convince me that he didn't do this to give me the finger. That he thought it was the best thing for the character, and that he understands and regrets that some of us aren't happy. He ends with a promise to try to bring those of us who are unhappy around on the concept of a single Spider-Man.

There you go. My anger is still there. I just lost something I liked. However? I don't feel like the guy who took it from me did so out of any sense of malice or disrespect. The story wasn't great? Oh, well. Bad stories happen. I still want the marriage? Yeah, but at least I don't feel like I've been crapped on. So, sure, I'll give Quesada his chance to bring me around. I'll read some single Spider-Man books to see if I can learn to like this change. Quesada showed me some respect? The least I can do is return that respect by giving him that chance for which he asked.

He knew he would upset people. That was unavoidable. Where he had a choice was in how he chose to address those upset fans. Some basic empathy and a request for a chance would've done wonders. Instead, he basically chose to give the upset fans the finger.

He doesn't have to confer with me. I don't know WHERE you're getting that from. But he should at least show some respect and understanding to the people he knew he was going to piss off. That's really not asking for much.

Anyway. I've said what I came here to say. Sorry if I've pissed anyone off. I certainly wasn't trying to anger anybody, and I hope we can all have good, constructive conversations in future threads.

See? It's not that hard to do.

Why is anyone supposed to care what you'd accept? Why do you deserve respect? Are you special or something? Why is he supposed to have empathy for people obsessed over a fictional marriage? Is that behavior he should be encouraging?

[emac1790]

I didn't say writers should never write anything because it might upset someone.

Perhaps I should re-phrase? I said earlier that I would've more easily accepted the marriage ending if it had been better-written and if Quesada had shown some respect to those of us who wouldn't be happy about it, even if it had been better-written.

All of that is still true.

Another scenario? OMD happens exactly as it did. Crappy story and all. Okay, I'm upset. I'm not happy. Quesada does an interview or two in which he still shows me (and the rest of the fans who aren't happy) some respect and tries to convince me that he didn't do this to give me the finger. That he thought it was the best thing for the character, and that he understands and regrets that some of us aren't happy. He ends with a promise to try to bring those of us who are unhappy around on the concept of a single Spider-Man.

There you go. My anger is still there. I just lost something I liked. However? I don't feel like the guy who took it from me did so out of any sense of malice or disrespect. The story wasn't great? Oh, well. Bad stories happen. I still want the marriage? Yeah, but at least I don't feel like I've been crapped on. So, sure, I'll give Quesada his chance to bring me around. I'll read some single Spider-Man books to see if I can learn to like this change. Quesada showed me some respect? The least I can do is return that respect by giving him that chance for which he asked.

He knew he would upset people. That was unavoidable. Where he had a choice was in how he chose to address those upset fans. Some basic empathy and a request for a chance would've done wonders. Instead, he basically chose to give the upset fans the finger.

He doesn't have to confer with me. I don't know WHERE you're getting that from. But he should at least show some respect and understanding to the people he knew he was going to piss off. That's really not asking for much.

Anyway. I've said what I came here to say. Sorry if I've pissed anyone off. I certainly wasn't trying to anger anybody, and I hope we can all have good, constructive conversations in future threads.

See? It's not that hard to do.

I'm getting that from lines like, "Where he had a choice was in how he chose to address those upset fans. Some basic empathy and a request for a chance would've done wonders. Instead, he basically chose to give the upset fans the finger." Right in the same post, you want him to "address those upset fans". You want him to confer (definition, have discussions; exchange opinions)with you. He doesn't know you're alive. (and to be honest, he doesn't care) How can someone address someone that they don't know? Again I ask, do you want comics to be run by opinion polls? Because in a roundabout way, that's what you're asking.

[Striderblack01]

What I don't get is the people saying because of OMD, they will never read or buy Spider-Man again. Maybe it's just me, but every bit of entertainment I have every followed (Movies, music, comics, TV shows, books, etc) had at least one bad thing I didn't like (a bad storyline, a bad song on an album, etc). If I were to drop everything that had something I didn't agree with, I would have a life with no entertainment.

It can get better, though. At the very least, give it a chance. To miss out on something that may appeal to you because of a story that is almost 10 years old, is a little silly.

Would I like OMD to be undone? I'll submit a write in answer. I don't care, just give me good stories and let's stop living in the past.

Well, as huge fan of Spider-Man who is currently not buying 616 Spidey comics, I can tell you:

It's well beyond a little silly. It's downright tragic.

The most vexing thing about my self-imposed exile is that I can't quite figure out why I took that specific story so hard.
I've read plenty of bad stories before, and I've been able to shrug them off, but there's something about this one just felt like such a huge betrayal.
And that's a stupid notion to carry with you for longer than a few minutes, let alone 7 years.

And I've tried to get back a few times.
I've heard nothing but positively radiant things about Slott's run, and I've cracked a few comics in the stands and liked them well enough.
But in the back of my head there's always something that keeps me from truly enjoying it.

Ultimately, it boils down to not being able to accept the status quo.
Specifically for me, it has to do more with the MJ/Peter relationship being missing, rather than the construct of marriage itself.

[5Eyes]

Well, as huge fan of Spider-Man who is currently not buying 616 Spidey comics, I can tell you:

It's well beyond a little silly. It's downright tragic.

The most vexing thing about my self-imposed exile is that I can't quite figure out why I took that specific story so hard.
I've read plenty of bad stories before, and I've been able to shrug them off, but there's something about this one just felt like such a huge betrayal.
And that's a stupid notion to carry with you for longer than a few minutes, let alone 7 years.

And I've tried to get back a few times.
I've heard nothing but positively radiant things about Slott's run, and I've cracked a few comics in the stands and liked them well enough.
But in the back of my head there's always something that keeps me from truly enjoying it.

Ultimately, it boils down to not being able to accept the status quo.
Specifically for me, it has to do more with the MJ/Peter relationship being missing, rather than the construct of marriage itself.

It happens, I tried to give the New 52 a try, for close to a year, but at one point I couldn't take it anymore , I'm pretty sure I'll get back to it after that universe is more seasoned but as of now IMO (I know alot of people do like the New 52) and like you I heard some good things from the New 52 even outside of Batman but at this moment I just cant stand to read it..

[emac1790]

Well, as huge fan of Spider-Man who is currently not buying 616 Spidey comics, I can tell you:

It's well beyond a little silly. It's downright tragic.

The most vexing thing about my self-imposed exile is that I can't quite figure out why I took that specific story so hard.
I've read plenty of bad stories before, and I've been able to shrug them off, but there's something about this one just felt like such a huge betrayal.
And that's a stupid notion to carry with you for longer than a few minutes, let alone 7 years.

And I've tried to get back a few times.
I've heard nothing but positively radiant things about Slott's run, and I've cracked a few comics in the stands and liked them well enough.
But in the back of my head there's always something that keeps me from truly enjoying it.

Ultimately, it boils down to not being able to accept the status quo.
Specifically for me, it has to do more with the MJ/Peter relationship being missing, rather than the construct of marriage itself.

You have self-awareness. It's is something that some people lack.

[Thinker4730]

I don't think they should go back and change a story from 5 or more years ago to satisfy a tiny contingent of internet fans. People who weren't reading at the time most likely
wouldn't know about it if it wasn't brought up in every other thread. It doesn't matter, especially the further away we move from the story. Are there people on here who are
still upset about things that happened in the 60's, 70's, or 80's because they read them then? And why would anybody care who wasn't reading them back then? Those stories
were just as new and important to the readers when they came out as OMD & OMIT are to this crowd, but they are ancient history and nobody gives a damn. That's exactly how
the next generation of readers will feel about these stories, because they only matter when readers refuse to let them go. OMD was in 2007- 7 years ago. That is 1 year short of
the time it takes for all of high school and a 4-year college curriculum. Isn't it time to let it go? Who is even the same person now that they were 7 years ago, anyway? That's a pretty
long time to be hung up on a comic book story.

When you have a newspaper comic of Peter and Mary Jane being married it reminds you that they were also once married in the actual comic book as well.

Marvel decided to copycat what Stan Lee decided to do with the characters of Peter and Mary Jane in his newspaper comic. If they didn't like the idea then they shouldn't have done it in the first place, but once they did they should've stuck it through and did what Stan Lee continues to do to this day...write good stories of a married Peter and Mary Jane.

OMD messed up a lot of things in continuity and altered characters like Black Cat which Slott is even making worse due to such a thing happening in the first place. Black Cat wouldn't be so easily turned to become a villain character again like Slott is doing to her now if she still had the memories of having Peter in her life. Peter's friendship influenced her a great deal in a very positive way and made her into a great character pre-OMD. OMD ruined all that for her character.

As far as I'm concerned OMD did far more damage than just undoing the marriage of Peter and Mary Jane.