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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    A concrete timeline is my #1 desire despite knowing that I won’t get it.

    I feel like all the other wants for the series are meaningless unless we get a timeline.
    I tend to agree with you. A concrete timeline would be great given the number of issues covered in Amazing Spider-Man through the years. I'm guessing the issue is that Marvel does not want to age their characters, which may factor into not clearing defining a concrete timeline. Personally, I would not mind Marvel aging their characters and having either their children or some protege take over the mantle of the hero.

  2. #32
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    the sheer number of Symbiotes makes them a bit..... well it's the old "conservation of ninjutsu" thing.
    Yeah, makes them look a lot less threatening, ironically enough lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tears4Fears View Post
    I tend to agree with you. A concrete timeline would be great given the number of issues covered in Amazing Spider-Man through the years. I'm guessing the issue is that Marvel does not want to age their characters, which may factor into not clearing defining a concrete timeline. Personally, I would not mind Marvel aging their characters and having either their children or some protege take over the mantle of the hero.
    Brand recognition would make that complicated, specially a permanent replacement.

    While a few characters did get replaced over the years, they're also far less popular than Spidey, and even a character like Superman is unlikely to get permanently replaced, and Spidey is far bigger than him, it's definitely not happening lol.

    And that's before we even get into how many fans don't want Peter to be gone to begin with.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    We all know that BND was a collective mid-life crisis from Marvel back then

  3. #33
    Astonishing Member Jman27's Avatar
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    better fights
    less bum Peter
    more miles and peter team ups
    steady Mj relationship
    "He's pure power and doesn't even know it. He's the best of us."-Matt Murdock

    "I need a reason to take the mask off."-Peter Parker

    "My heart half-breaks at how easy it is to lie to him. It breaks all the way when he believes me without question." Felicia Hardy

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegeta View Post
    2.) Interacting with his co-workers (I miss Pete and Robbie Robertson's friendship, as well, as the rest of the classic Bugle Staff, like Kate Cushing and Glory Grant) I don't mind him having new science lab co-workers, but I want it in a more realistic setting, like ESU, not the crazy "super-science" labs you see in Horizon or Beyond.
    I think these might be the two biggest reasons I still want Pete to work for/with the Bugle in some way, shape or form. a.) the outstanding supporting cast it offers and b.) Pete dealing with super science at places like Horizon and Beyond just takes him another step (or three) from the every man aspect I like about the character. One reason I'm hesitant to have Pete have a f/t job in any science field is because I'm almost certain writers just wouldn't be able to help themselves and insert some sort of super science in their stories.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tears4Fears View Post
    I tend to agree with you. A concrete timeline would be great given the number of issues covered in Amazing Spider-Man through the years. I'm guessing the issue is that Marvel does not want to age their characters, which may factor into not clearing defining a concrete timeline. Personally, I would not mind Marvel aging their characters and having either their children or some protege take over the mantle of the hero.
    The ironic thing is, while many readers do want Pete to age, there's always a possibility that the character could age out, which is something a lot of these same fans want no part of in any way, shape, or form.
    Last edited by phonogram12; 01-19-2022 at 04:55 PM.
    Keep in mind that you have about as much chance of changing my mind as I do of changing yours.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Yeah, makes them look a lot less threatening, ironically enough lol.



    Brand recognition would make that complicated, specially a permanent replacement.

    While a few characters did get replaced over the years, they're also far less popular than Spidey, and even a character like Superman is unlikely to get permanently replaced, and Spidey is far bigger than him, it's definitely not happening lol.

    And that's before we even get into how many fans don't want Peter to be gone to begin with.
    I certainly understand that Marvel and DC are not going to age their flagship characters given the money these characters generate. Perhaps one way to do it would be to a have an alternate line of up to three or four books where you gradually age the characters while still maintaining the regular 616 titles. They can be alternate universe books. I know there are books like Spider-Man Life Story, Old Man Logan, and Spider-Man Renew You Vows, but many of those books are either mini-series or have major time jumps in them. I am talking about gradual time progression where characters get married, have children, and raise them through the years without time jumping ahead. On the flip side, I wouldn't mind a Golden Age Marvel line of comics where you re-imagine early stories of Captain America, Sub-Mariner, and Thor within the 1940's time period and perhaps get the licensing rights to Daredevil (i.e., the one with the boomerangs that fights the Yellow Claw) from this time period as well. You can also change the course of events within these books where the super soldier serum does not get destroyed and ends up in the Nazis possession and they form an evil axis powers group of Red Skull, Yellow Claw, Loki along with several new villains that emerge after using the super soldier serum. As a result, you can have Captain America and Bucky form a Golden Age Avengers group to stop this evil axis power group where they enlist Tony Stark, Bruce Banner and Hank Pym's parents. You also can have other Golden Age line of books such as an ongoing series with Peter Parker's parents as spies during this time and perhaps a book featuring Wilson Fisk as a kid where several criminal organizations are running New York at this time in the 1940's and one of the crime bosses takes him under their wing where he learns over time what it takes to become a kingpin.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonogram12 View Post
    I think these might be the two biggest reasons I still want Pete to work for/with the Bugle in some way, shape or form. a.) the outstanding supporting cast it offers and b.) Pete dealing with super science at places like Horizon and Beyond just takes him another step (or three) from the every man aspect I like about the character. One reason I'm hesitant to have Pete have a f/t job in any science field is because I'm almost certain writers just wouldn't be able to help themselves and insert some sort of super science in their stories.
    I feel like the everyman aspect is overrated since an everyman would've quit being Spider-Man during the Lee/Ditko era. While I understand him not being a superscientist, I think working in a lab is a natural progression for his character especially when you consider how Curt Conners isn't considered a superscientist despite all the things that he's done.

    The ironic thing is, while many readers do want Pete to age, there's always a possibility that the character could age out, which is something a lot of these same fans want no part of in any way, shape, or form.
    The problem is that I don't think the changes to his life really matter without the timeline. If nothing is allowed to progress, then why should Peter act any differently than when he started?

  7. #37
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonogram12 View Post
    The ironic thing is, while many readers do want Pete to age, there's always a possibility that the character could age out, which is something a lot of these same fans want no part of in any way, shape, or form.
    Readers who want Peter to age generally don't want him to age up too much, just enough so he can keep acting like an actual adult, and that feeling becomes even stronger whenever they try to make Peter into a manchild.

    At the very very most I can see readers accepting him in his 40's, but that's an age not even characters who are usually accepted to be old like Batman have reached, so that ain't happening lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tears4Fears View Post
    I certainly understand that Marvel and DC are not going to age their flagship characters given the money these characters generate. Perhaps one way to do it would be to a have an alternate line of up to three or four books where you gradually age the characters while still maintaining the regular 616 titles. They can be alternate universe books. I know there are books like Spider-Man Life Story, Old Man Logan, and Spider-Man Renew You Vows, but many of those books are either mini-series or have major time jumps in them. I am talking about gradual time progression where characters get married, have children, and raise them through the years without time jumping ahead. On the flip side, I wouldn't mind a Golden Age Marvel line of comics where you re-imagine early stories of Captain America, Sub-Mariner, and Thor within the 1940's time period and perhaps get the licensing rights to Daredevil (i.e., the one with the boomerangs that fights the Yellow Claw) from this time period as well. You can also change the course of events within these books where the super soldier serum does not get destroyed and ends up in the Nazis possession and they form an evil axis powers group of Red Skull, Yellow Claw, Loki along with several new villains that emerge after using the super soldier serum. As a result, you can have Captain America and Bucky form a Golden Age Avengers group to stop this evil axis power group where they enlist Tony Stark, Bruce Banner and Hank Pym's parents. You also can have other Golden Age line of books such as an ongoing series with Peter Parker's parents as spies during this time and perhaps a book featuring Wilson Fisk as a kid where several criminal organizations are running New York at this time in the 1940's and one of the crime bosses takes him under their wing where he learns over time what it takes to become a kingpin.
    The problem is that alternate timelines are hard to keep, because readers generally stay focused on the main one, even bigger ones like MC2 and Ultimate eventually died off, and while Ultimate died because of Ultimatum, I'm not really sure it'd last beyond Spidey, though X-Men have a pretty good chance 'cause they're X-Men, and Ultimates were popular too, but probably would die-off anyways.

    If we take premises "like 616 but not exactly" for an alternate universe, then it's harder to sell, because it can be seen as redundant, even if it becomes different later on, big time skips are generally done to avoid this idea of gradually aging up characters to be different already, slow burn can work, but an alternate universe has to stand out right away if it wants to compete with the established one to be an on-going.

    The idea that takes place in the past with changes to Super-Soldier stuff to change the world's story, that one stands out, and can have old characters be part of golden age since they can't interfere too much in 616 because it more or less has an established past, so that's an idea for an alternate universe that can work, even if it kinda has a competition with Noir, but Noir's dead and the only liked part is Spider-Man anyways lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    I feel like the everyman aspect is overrated since an everyman would've quit being Spider-Man during the Lee/Ditko era. While I understand him not being a superscientist, I think working in a lab is a natural progression for his character especially when you consider how Curt Conners isn't considered a superscientist despite all the things that he's done.
    I honestly don't even see Spidey as an everyman, those are usually defined as "Be the most generic character possible so the reader can pretend to be you", which's not unlike an anime protagonist, which, doesn't work with Peter as he has a pretty defined personality whenever he's around, not to mention his life isn't that relatable when 90% of its problems are caused by being Spider-Man.

    The problem is that I don't think the changes to his life really matter without the timeline. If nothing is allowed to progress, then why should Peter act any differently than when he started?
    Because comic books are ultimately poorly written, and fans like to pretend they can make sense at times, but they don't, so fans and writers arbitrarily accept some time has passed, but since the universe is so big, making time advance universally just won't happen because of the way events happen everywhere, meaning characters will age up in inconsistent ways, and that happened even back when Marvel actually put the effort to keep track of continuity (With Kitty being the obvious example), and even though Marvel likes to say that "Every 4 real life years means 1 year passes at Marvel", it just doesn't.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    We all know that BND was a collective mid-life crisis from Marvel back then

  8. #38
    Extraordinary Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Yeah, makes them look a lot less threatening, ironically enough lol.
    Which is a bit....meh. On the one hand you're like YAY! more!... then stuff happens like when there was a Symbiote rain and like a thousand people bonded with Klyntar. Yeah... Now they don't even get cool names like Mayhem... and are just nameless masses.

    Having a dozen named characters is fine though. you just need to use them for other things than fighting Spiderman.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    I feel like the everyman aspect is overrated since an everyman would've quit being Spider-Man during the Lee/Ditko era.
    Only if they never received the very lesson that defines him: "with great power, comes great responsibility." He more or less is supposed to represent the every man's struggles, but within the superhero genre. He's not a billionaire or an alien. He's just a regular kid who got these powers and is trying to do his best with them.

    While I understand him not being a superscientist, I think working in a lab is a natural progression for his character especially when you consider how Curt Conners isn't considered a superscientist despite all the things that he's done.
    IDK, Curt did turn himself into a Lizard. If you ask me, that's pretty super sciencey.

    The problem is that I don't think the changes to his life really matter without the timeline. If nothing is allowed to progress, then why should Peter act any differently than when he started?
    Well, like I said, that's why I think taking away his f/t (with benefits, presumably) gig at the Bugle as their science editor was a mistake. It combines his world's perfectly yet allows him to have a bit of growth in his professional life.
    Keep in mind that you have about as much chance of changing my mind as I do of changing yours.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Readers who want Peter to age generally don't want him to age up too much, just enough so he can keep acting like an actual adult, and that feeling becomes even stronger whenever they try to make Peter into a manchild.
    I don't know. The impression I get from some posters is that they more or less want him to age with them, which kind of creates this push and pull between younger readers and the older ones, which is a losing battle for the older readers because Marvel will almost always go for that younger demographic because a.) they know most readers will continue to read Spider-Man no matter how much they dislike the direction and b.) as these same readers move on in their lives (be it from death or something else), they're going to need younger readers to make up for their absence.
    Keep in mind that you have about as much chance of changing my mind as I do of changing yours.

  11. #41
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Which is a bit....meh. On the one hand you're like YAY! more!... then stuff happens like when there was a Symbiote rain and like a thousand people bonded with Klyntar. Yeah... Now they don't even get cool names like Mayhem... and are just nameless masses.
    Yeah, they definitely do quantity over quality in those events lol.

    Hell, even the indea of the symbiote dragons in Cates' Venom run was cool, but there were too many, and only Grendel got named, and that one died, so now symbiote dragons are kinda whatever lol.

    Having a dozen named characters is fine though. you just need to use them for other things than fighting Spiderman.
    How about having them fight Venom? I'm sure that's a ground breaking idea .

    Quote Originally Posted by phonogram12 View Post
    I don't know. The impression I get from some posters is that they more or less want him to age with them, which kind of creates this push and pull between younger readers and the older ones, which is a losing battle for the older readers because Marvel will almost always go for that younger demographic because a.) they know most readers will continue to read Spider-Man no matter how much they dislike the direction and b.) as these same readers move on in their lives (be it from death or something else), they're going to need younger readers to make up for their absence.
    Never really got the impression older readers are that interested in Peter becoming too old, the general agreed age we have for Spidey that I noticed here have him being on late 20's/early 30's, and generally I see reactions of annoyance when I point out Marvel now says he's mid-20's lol.

    Of course, CBR is a very small part of the fanbase, even comic book readers fanbase, but whenever I interact with anyone, I don't get the impression they want Spidey to become that old.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    We all know that BND was a collective mid-life crisis from Marvel back then

  12. #42
    Extraordinary Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    How about having them fight Venom? I'm sure that's a ground breaking idea .
    You jest, but the Toxin mini was genuinely good. Spider-man? That's "sir not-appearing-in-this-book". Toxin is Carnage's offspring and bonds to a cop. Venom and Carnage do a bad cop worse cop routine trying to influence Toxin more than his host. It was a really neat story idea.

  13. #43
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    From my observation, the people worried about Peter being "too old" are adults themselves. Kids will accept just about any age as long as he doesn't qualify for a senior citizen.

  14. #44
    Astonishing Member Vortex85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    From my observation, the people worried about Peter being "too old" are adults themselves. Kids will accept just about any age as long as he doesn't qualify for a senior citizen.
    Agreed.

    This is true in my case. Married Peter was my Peter as a child and the one I appreciate the most. Whenever I see people claim its because fans wanted Peter to grow up with them, I feel odd because I’m not one of those people. Its more true IMO that the stories you grew up with are the ones you remember most fondly, regardless of status quo or age of the character. Even thats not true 100%, but its more true than thinking the its the old fans faults who grew up with the character before he was ever married to begin with.
    Last edited by Vortex85; 01-21-2022 at 03:51 AM.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    From my observation, the people worried about Peter being "too old" are adults themselves. Kids will accept just about any age as long as he doesn't qualify for a senior citizen.
    Why can't he be senior citizen? Old people don't want role models?

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