Joss Whedon Breaks Silence: Calls Ray Fisher, “A Bad Actor In Both Senses”

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

I think the issue here is the SOURCE.

If it's Affleck offering me advice or not liking what I am doing-I am WAYYYYYYYYYY more prone to listen to an Oscar winner. He made movies folks loved and some won awards.

Fisher-who has no resume outside of theater and Broadway-is NOT going to tell me ANYTHING. Not when my resume has Buffy on it that bomb as a movie but became a hit show, had a spinoff and tons of comics as does Firefly.

The fact WB thought so LOW of Cyborg that a no-name gets to play him versus others like even Khary Payton. Says how low on the pole Cyborg was. Maybe a bigger name would have gotten Cyborg's stuff kept in the film.

Everyone else had skins on the wall. Even Moama who I remember from Baywatch more than Stargate. I think I would have kept my mouth SHUT. Maybe if he did-all the praise from the Snyder Cut might have opened some more doors.

Instead he went after a guy that wasn't working at WB more than he did Wheldon with no proof.

Wheldon will find work even if it's under a different name.

Joss at this point has 20 year history of doing similar things with Ray Fisher. It's well established that he was using his position to sleep with actresses working under him while on Buffy (something his wife basically said and got dismissed as a jilted ex years ago), the Charisma Carptentar story has been around for era, James Marsters has his story about Joss getting pissed that Spike was becoming a fan favorite and bullying him and pushing him against a wall, Michelle Trachenberg said after a confrontation with Whedon there was a rule that he wasn't allowed in the same room as her by themselves, Gadot talks about how bad Whedon was and how he threatened her career (former co workers also said it's a common tactic he had), Affleck outright was ready to stage a walkout.

Whedon has a history of being unprofessional and toxic and at this point on the film Ray Fisher was on, multiple big name stars have pretty much had similar issues with Whedon that at this point there's really no real reason to act like Fisher is the dude making **** up or being unreasonable.

At this point Fisher's story is either fitting a well established pattern.... or everyone over 20 years is lying about Whedon and it's some big conspiracy to take down a guy many of these people for professional reasons owe good portions of their career.

[Powerboy]

I think the issue here is the SOURCE.

If it's Affleck offering me advice or not liking what I am doing-I am WAYYYYYYYYYY more prone to listen to an Oscar winner. He made movies folks loved and some won awards.

Fisher-who has no resume outside of theater and Broadway-is NOT going to tell me ANYTHING. Not when my resume has Buffy on it that bomb as a movie but became a hit show, had a spinoff and tons of comics as does Firefly.

The fact WB thought so LOW of Cyborg that a no-name gets to play him versus others like even Khary Payton. Says how low on the pole Cyborg was. Maybe a bigger name would have gotten Cyborg's stuff kept in the film.

Everyone else had skins on the wall. Even Moama who I remember from Baywatch more than Stargate. I think I would have kept my mouth SHUT. Maybe if he did-all the praise from the Snyder Cut might have opened some more doors.

Instead he went after a guy that wasn't working at WB more than he did Wheldon with no proof.

Wheldon will find work even if it's under a different name.

Whedon is not known for liking advice or taking blame. For one example, the infamous, "What happens to a toad when it gets hit by electricity?" "Same thing that happens to everyone else". It wasn't Whedon's fault because it was a weak line. He explained that in an interview. In fact, he specifically said that Halle Berry, who he mockingly referred to as "the Oscar winner" (implying she didn't win it on merit) was at fault for the way she delivered the line.

No, Joss. It was a lame line for a so-called script doctor. Do you know what really happens to a toad when it gets hit by electricity? It croaks.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

There were things that Whedon could have cut in his version to make room for the Cyborg story. We didn't need Batman's opening scene on the roof, for one. Or Barry drawing on the guy's face at the prison. Things like that could have been trimmed out, the Cyborg plot added back in, and MAYBE the film is longer by a few minutes.

Batman was the key member of the league and building the team in film. Even in Snyder's version he was the #1 in it. We have to be honest...casual movie goers know who Batman is. They don't with Cyborg unless they saw the Cartoon Network.

He was disgusted with his experience during Justice League. That's more than just Whedon.

Affleck has been more quiet over his displeasure but we have to remember back then , as Justice League was bombing the company looked to blame him actually. That they blamed his personal life for the film bombing at the box office. (Not realizing the only real bright spots of the film was Affleck). This alienated Affleck from Warners further as while he didn't blame Whedon the entire way , he wasn't happy with the film. There are picture of him and Snyder on set discussing direction (Ben in Batsuit on Batman v. Superman) and its clear Ben was ALL FOR THIS.

Imagine being blamed because you and your wife are heading towards divorce by the studio. Its no shock given his issues shooting this and more he walked. The studio was backing Joss Whedon then over EVERYONE. Then once everything came out way later after the sell its clear...they backed the wrong pony.

Its clear the new people went to Affleck and apologized to get him back to let his arc as Batman end.

Yes but most critics also do acknowledge that Fisher was one of the key positives of the Snyder cut, so Joss' excuses don't really cut the mustard.

Its gotta be pointed out ...Snyder got to release a 4 hour film. Whedon did a 2 hour one. Of course it makes sense Cyborg would be praised given the films length and them able to tell his complete story there.

[CSTowle]

This is more ridiculous than saying Gadot has no talent. Johansson has won a Tony and nominated for two Oscars for her dramatic roles. She is a fine dramatic actress who does much more than look good.

Awards are given out for many reasons, and talent is simply one of those many reasons. There are messaging, political, PR, etc. I'm not a professional movie critic, I'm not sure anyone here is (I'm also not sure in these days of the internet that necessarily qualifies one much more than the average Joe). I judge by eyeballs and how an actor performs in the roles I see. Again, can you make me feel something or make me believe you feel something? I have never seen a role Gadot has been in where I didn't honestly believe that if you grabbed the best actress at your local college/theater and subbed them in they couldn't perform and make me believe more. She delivers lines (not well, but she speaks the words), she (occasionally) changes facial expressions, but I never see anything more than a person going through the motions.

Same with ScarJo. The only role of hers I enjoyed was "Under the Skin", because it played to her strength of being stonefaced/emotionless and pretty. She was perfectly cast. She plays (spoiler alert) an alien with zero emotions who lures lonely men back to her spaceship to be (?) absorbed/consumed by the ship. There was one scene especially that stood out, but I'd give credit completely to the writer and director (the beach scene with the baby). All she did was walk away. Which, again, she can do. She can go through her paces and deliver lines. She can change expressions and speak louder if angry. But I never feel anything or find myself immersed in a movie she's the star of.

[AnakinFlair]

Him doing USO shows as well. They were jarring and not really in service of the narrative

I'd actually forgotten about that. But without those, we wouldn't have gotten Cap punching Hitler. It also did end up tying directly into the rescue of Bucky.

Batman was the key member of the league and building the team in film. Even in Snyder's version he was the #1 in it. We have to be honest...casual movie goers know who Batman is. They don't with Cyborg unless they saw the Cartoon Network.

Yes, Snyder has him first in his cut- going to get Aquaman. There were ways Batman could still be the first person introduced that would tie him to the other characters, instead of a comedy scene on the roof (not to mention it was stupid that when a Parademon blows up, it leaves an imprint of the three motherboxes). Keep the Bruce meeting Arthur scene (minus the singing), and it would have been a solid opening.

[Thezmage]

The USO scenes were part of the narrative, it showed how they were using him and keeping him from the fighting. They were fun too.
The whole character arc was few believed in him and he had to prove himself, before and after the serum.
The fighting Howlers was one of the better action montages I have seen in years.

They were part of the narrative but they really weren’t worked into the narrative. Whenever they showed up it was really jarring

[chamber-music]

Joss at this point has 20 year history of doing similar things with Ray Fisher. It's well established that he was using his position to sleep with actresses working under him while on Buffy (something his wife basically said and got dismissed as a jilted ex years ago), the Charisma Carptentar story has been around for era, James Marsters has his story about Joss getting pissed that Spike was becoming a fan favorite and bullying him and pushing him against a wall, Michelle Trachenberg said after a confrontation with Whedon there was a rule that he wasn't allowed in the same room as her by themselves, Gadot talks about how bad Whedon was and how he threatened her career (former co workers also said it's a common tactic he had), Affleck outright was ready to stage a walkout.

Whedon has a history of being unprofessional and toxic and at this point on the film Ray Fisher was on, multiple big name stars have pretty much had similar issues with Whedon that at this point there's really no real reason to act like Fisher is the dude making **** up or being unreasonable.

At this point Fisher's story is either fitting a well established pattern.... or everyone over 20 years is lying about Whedon and it's some big conspiracy to take down a guy many of these people for professional reasons owe good portions of their career.

Yep. I've seen some folks try to deflect Joss Whedon's behaviour and blame it all of Ray Fisher despite the fact Variety journalists did extensive research to corroborate a number of accusations against Whedon's behaviour which go back to his nineties Buffy series. He has a long history of bullying and inappropriate behaviour towards co-workers and actors on his shows.

Whedon isn't the first director in Hollywood to have his creative vision challenged by an actor so it's hardly an excuse. I don't have sympathy because Whedon put himself in that situation on Justice League.

[Kieran_Frost]

That interview... god. He really doesn't get it. I'm shocked. He's not a stupid man, but this... was such a stupid response. He needs to put his head under and write under an alias for at-least a decade before trying to crawl back into Hollywood. This will just set back that time frame even more. Idiot!

Whedon is not known for liking advice or taking blame. For one example, the infamous, "What happens to a toad when it gets hit by electricity?" "Same thing that happens to everyone else". It wasn't Whedon's fault because it was a weak line. He explained that in an interview. In fact, he specifically said that Halle Berry, who he mockingly referred to as "the Oscar winner" (implying she didn't win it on merit) was at fault for the way she delivered the line.

No, Joss. It was a lame line for a so-called script doctor. Do you know what really happens to a toad when it gets hit by electricity? It croaks.

I disagree, I've always felt that was a very Buffy-esq line that Berry failed to deliver right (but her Storm, in general was... so disappointing). It needs vastly more sass, and wink wink, nudge nudge to make the joke land. Instead Berry does it like it's almost a genuine question??? I absolutely can see Sarah Michelle Gellar rockin' that line. It's the exact same idea as "Wanna see my impression of Gandhi?"

If it's Affleck offering me advice or not liking what I am doing-I am WAYYYYYYYYYY more prone to listen to an Oscar winner. He made movies folks loved and some won awards.

Fisher-who has no resume outside of theater and Broadway-is NOT going to tell me ANYTHING. Not when my resume has Buffy on it that bomb as a movie but became a hit show, had a spinoff and tons of comics as does Firefly.

In general I don't get why actors are giving their thoughts to directors; though I know many who just can't help themselves. Directors focus on shots, actors focus on performance (THEIR performance, shame on those who give other actors 'notes' *cough* Dustin Hoffman *cough*)

Ben Affleck literally directed an Oscar-winning movie and he was reportedly so disgusted by his experience with Whedon that he quit Batman.

I mean... let's not forget he knew about and put up with Harvey Weinstein for years and years (he was called out for it after he tried to pretend he never knew, and the receipts came out). I can't imagine Whedon was something he hadn't come across lots before.

Awards are given out for many reasons, and talent is simply one of those many reasons. There are messaging, political, PR, etc. I'm not a professional movie critic, I'm not sure anyone here is (I'm also not sure in these days of the internet that necessarily qualifies one much more than the average Joe).

If by professional we mean paid to do it and it's printed in newspapers, I have been?

Same with ScarJo. The only role of hers I enjoyed was "Under the Skin", because it played to her strength of being stonefaced/emotionless and pretty. She was perfectly cast. She plays (spoiler alert) an alien with zero emotions who lures lonely men back to her spaceship to be (?) absorbed/consumed by the ship. There was one scene especially that stood out, but I'd give credit completely to the writer and director (the beach scene with the baby). All she did was walk away. Which, again, she can do. She can go through her paces and deliver lines. She can change expressions and speak louder if angry. But I never feel anything or find myself immersed in a movie she's the star of.

Question: have you seen Marriage Story (2019), JoJo Rabbit (2019) and Lost in Translation (2003)?

[Powerboy]

That interview... god. He really doesn't get it. I'm shocked. He's not a stupid man, but this... was such a stupid response. He needs to put his head under and write under an alias for at-least a decade before trying to crawl back into Hollywood. This will just set back that time frame even more. Idiot!

I suspect that would be like Stephen King writing as Richard Bachman. People would realize who it really was.

[Kirby101]

They were part of the narrative but they really weren’t worked into the narrative. Whenever they showed up it was really jarring

We watched different movies.

[chicago_bastard]

Yes but most critics also do acknowledge that Fisher was one of the key positives of the Snyder cut, so Joss' excuses don't really cut the mustard.

If you ask me saying Cyborg was the highlight of the movie is more a knock against the movie than a praise for Fisher

[SUPERECWFAN1]

So another writer has came forward from Firefly basically confirming one story where Whedon didn't just get mad at a female writer on the series , he took her script and called a meeting where he placed the script on projector and was just cruel for 90 minutes mocking every bit of dialogue etc. The female writer had to hold back from crying on it.


So yeah ...not a good man at all.

[Mark Trail]

Don't know what that has to do with Fisher trying to tell Whedon how he should do his job.

Whedon is trying to blame things on Fisher and Gadot not being directors/writers/whatever when, in fact, Affleck who is a critically acclaimed, Oscar-winning, writer/director also found Whedon's on set behavior toxic. It's clearly not a case of "non-directors wouldn't understand."

[Mark Trail]

Whedon hasn't been accused of any sexual misconduct.

Sleeping with/trying to sleep with subordinates in the workplace is pretty much the textbook definition of sexual misconduct, at least in the employment realm.

[Mark Trail]

On the Buffy part, I would want a bit more clarification on the sex part. Yes, it was a bad choice since he was their boss. I certainly understand the temptation. Did they approach him as in trying to further a career?

The whole "I had to do with because they were super hot actresses and I was a nerd" defense is pretty much a "she wore a short skirt and was asking for it" argument. It's still sexual harassment if he had any control over the terms and/or conditions of their employment, which as showrunner he obviously did.