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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    Reading the interview was like watching a car crash. Just so bad lol. He really doesnt care about reclaiming his legacy or his career and it shows. He was a great mind that is full of himself through and through.

    As far everything with Ray, I never doubted that Joss was an ass to him or Gadot. The one thing I will believe Joss on was the racism claims which were a bit laughable. The skin lightening and cutting POC were always fairly baseless claims. You would think that being a writer Joss would be better with his words though. Saying things like "she doesnt understand English" come on now....

    Quote Originally Posted by ayanestar View Post
    There can only have been one reason, she was 15 back then so basically he is a creep and shouldn't be left alone with minors. Maybe for once "cancel culture" can actually work and send this guy to an early retirement.
    While this is pretty old news...I dont know if Michelle was trying to insinuate that Joss was trying to get with an underage child. Her mom didnt even want her on set with the other adults at times because of how adult everyone was. Given at how crass and jackass JW could be, I wouldnt want my child alone with him either.
    Last edited by Primal Slayer; 01-17-2022 at 05:32 PM.

  2. #32
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    The movie 5-10 years from now based around the making of the Justice League movie is gonna be great.
    Hell, yes.

  3. #33
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    It really is remarkable that Buffy turned out to be as great of a character as she is.

    I'm way more confident in attributing it almost entirely to Gellar at this point.
    Over the last year, some of his fans have tried to scrub him out too, erasing him from their narratives about what made Buffy great. In posts and essays, they have downplayed his role in the show’s development, pointing out that many people, including many women, were critically important to its success. It may be hard to accept that Whedon could have understood the pain of a character like Buffy, a woman who endures infidelity, attempted rape, and endless violence. But the belief that her story was something other than a projection of his psyche is ultimately just another fantasy. Whedon did understand pain — his own. Some of that pain, as he once put it to me, “spilled over” into the people around him. And some of it was channeled into his art.
    The interviewer actually makes a point of criticizing this kind of attitude. When it comes out that a creator you liked is an asshole, the temptation is to try to erase them from what you loved and say they weren’t responsible for it being great. But this is dishonest. Whedon was indisputably a part of why Buffy was such a hit, there’s no real getting around that. He’s also part of why the MCU took off, his style of always using quips to deflate tension is still ingrained in the MCU. Unfortunately Whedon is also a dick, and that’s going to cast a shadow over some peoples ability to enjoy his work.
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  4. #34
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    The interviewer actually makes a point of criticizing this kind of attitude. When it comes out that a creator you liked is an asshole, the temptation is to try to erase them from what you loved and say they weren’t responsible for it being great. But this is dishonest. Whedon was indisputably a part of why Buffy was such a hit, there’s no real getting around that. He’s also part of why the MCU took off, his style of always using quips to deflate tension is still ingrained in the MCU. Unfortunately Whedon is also a dick, and that’s going to cast a shadow over some peoples ability to enjoy his work.
    It is kind of ironic how much Whedon's style still permeates the MCU, although James Gunn also helped bolster leaning so hard into constant comedy, quips, and quirkiness.

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindi View Post
    In all honesty everyone in some way or form has been a jerk,ass, or dick but you must know when, why and how you are acting like one. Perfection is always a loose war.
    A lot of what Whedon has done in the past definitely isnt out of the norm for Hollywood, its just the age old "the higher you are, the farther you fall". He went from a small name director to a powerhouse and thus 1 person spoke and the dominos crumbled. I'd say people in his position who have had the same type of success and arent douchebags are more of the rarity.

  6. #36
    (Formerly ilash) Ilan Preskovsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    The interviewer actually makes a point of criticizing this kind of attitude. When it comes out that a creator you liked is an asshole, the temptation is to try to erase them from what you loved and say they weren’t responsible for it being great. But this is dishonest. Whedon was indisputably a part of why Buffy was such a hit, there’s no real getting around that. He’s also part of why the MCU took off, his style of always using quips to deflate tension is still ingrained in the MCU. Unfortunately Whedon is also a dick, and that’s going to cast a shadow over some peoples ability to enjoy his work.
    Agreed entirely. Joss, as a person, has proven himself to be a massive disappointment (to put it kindly) but Buffy is Joss Whedon. It's his vision through and through. Once again, it simply becomes necessary to separate art from artist - which, yes, is easier said than done, but there have been far greater scumbags than Whedon who have made great art that it does get to a point where you just have no choice. Not all great artists are awful human beings but enough are for it to mean that if you can't separate the art from the artist you end up losing a hell of a lot of great stuff.

    As for the interview, I have to wonder if he was taken out of context in the article. Not because I don't believe his accusers but because, if nothing else, he has always been eloquent as hell - and that really does not come across here at all. Say what you want about the man, but a bumbling idiot, he ain't.
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  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindi View Post
    In all honesty everyone in some way or form has been a jerk,ass, or dick but you must know when, why and how you are acting like one. Perfection is always a loose war.
    Yes but there are lines that shouldn't be crossed and Whedon jet skied past most of them.

  8. #38
    Astonishing Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilan Preskovsky View Post
    As for the interview, I have to wonder if he was taken out of context in the article. Not because I don't believe his accusers but because, if nothing else, he has always been eloquent as hell - and that really does not come across here at all. Say what you want about the man, but a bumbling idiot, he ain't.
    I feel like he's become a little bit of a bumbling idiot the older he's become. More delusional but an idiot nonetheless. Only someone delusional would give this bad of an interview.

  9. #39
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    The interviewer actually makes a point of criticizing this kind of attitude. When it comes out that a creator you liked is an asshole, the temptation is to try to erase them from what you loved and say they weren’t responsible for it being great. But this is dishonest. Whedon was indisputably a part of why Buffy was such a hit, there’s no real getting around that. He’s also part of why the MCU took off, his style of always using quips to deflate tension is still ingrained in the MCU. Unfortunately Whedon is also a dick, and that’s going to cast a shadow over some peoples ability to enjoy his work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilan Preskovsky View Post
    Agreed entirely. Joss, as a person, has proven himself to be a massive disappointment (to put it kindly) but Buffy is Joss Whedon. It's his vision through and through. Once again, it simply becomes necessary to separate art from artist - which, yes, is easier said than done, but there have been far greater scumbags than Whedon who have made great art that it does get to a point where you just have no choice. Not all great artists are awful human beings but enough are for it to mean that if you can't separate the art from the artist you end up losing a hell of a lot of great stuff.
    Nah, I get that. I was mostly being petty I know you can't remove Joss from the work, for better or worse. He's responsible for a lot of it.

    But I still maintain that BTVS is his best work, partially I think because it was Joss when he was first starting out before he got big and it REALLY went to his head. And I think it was just the ideal mix of a good writing room (some of whom went on to be showrunners themselves) and a good cast lead by Gellar, who had to bring Buffy to life.

  10. #40
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ayanestar View Post
    There can only have been one reason, she was 15 back then so basically he is a creep and shouldn't be left alone with minors. Maybe for once "cancel culture" can actually work and send this guy to an early retirement.
    Oh, I have a very good idea why but even she won't talk about it (understandably so) so it must have been something REALLY bad. To see him be portrayed as this feminist director and then have all this stuff come out about him, it's just so ridiculous.
    #RestoretheDonnerverse

  11. #41
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    So, Whedon is never going to get out of the black list huh?

    Seriously, this one case of a director/writer who grew way too fast and too early for his own good and everyone's else. Everyone (myself included) only looked at his quirky work and fell in love with the guy and never paid attention to the problems that were continually increasing. With each new famous work Whedon's ego kept getting bigger and bigger to the point that he felt his abuse of power was something normal and people accepted it until it was too ridiculous to keep ignoring it.

    At least creators can learn from Whedon that no matter how talented you are, you just can't do whatever you want with others.

  12. #42
    Astonishing Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakzo View Post
    So, Whedon is never going to get out of the black list huh?

    Seriously, this one case of a director/writer who grew way too fast and too early for his own good and everyone's else. Everyone (myself included) only looked at his quirky work and fell in love with the guy and never paid attention to the problems that were continually increasing. With each new famous work Whedon's ego kept getting bigger and bigger to the point that he felt his abuse of power was something normal and people accepted it until it was too ridiculous to keep ignoring it.

    At least creators can learn from Whedon that no matter how talented you are, you just can't do whatever you want with others.

    I dont think it's so much of growing to fast and too early. He was in his 30s when he started Buffy. Had 2 hit shows, 2 cancelled shows. Got his first huge film with Avengers in 2012. He was just another case of power corrupts and he was the "nerd" who finally got big and women finally started paying attention to him.

    We are finally in the age of holding Hollywood accountable and not sweeping everything under the rug which is great. He's just more high profile than say the showrunner of One Tree Hill who was a massive creep and jerk.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post




    Not really nobody has hired Ray to spite Wheldon. Was it worth it alienating other casting directors who didn't want that mess overshadowing their projects?



    How has he alienated them? Last I checked, Whedon was the only director he ever said anything bad about.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Slayer View Post
    Reading the interview was like watching a car crash. Just so bad lol. He really doesnt care about reclaiming his legacy or his career and it shows. He was a great mind that is full of himself through and through.

    As far everything with Ray, I never doubted that Joss was an ass to him or Gadot. The one thing I will believe Joss on was the racism claims which were a bit laughable. The skin lightening and cutting POC were always fairly baseless claims. You would think that being a writer Joss would be better with his words though. Saying things like "she doesnt understand English" come on now....



    While this is pretty old news...I dont know if Michelle was trying to insinuate that Joss was trying to get with an underage child. Her mom didnt even want her on set with the other adults at times because of how adult everyone was. Given at how crass and jackass JW could be, I wouldnt want my child alone with him either.
    Whedon's works have had some notable issues when it comes to race (hiring white actors to play Chinese actors in Firefly easily comes to mind).

  15. #45
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Well. Someone's career is over. Not that I had much hope for it before this. This was cringe af.
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