SW ST aren't just bad movies, it also created a very dull era

[Username taken]

The ST was massive at the box office.

I know a lot of YouTubers are trying very hard to argue otherwise but with the exception of Solo, the Disney/Lucasfilm Star Wars have been very successful at the box office.

[CosmiComic]

Padme wasn't submissive and her falling for Anakin wasn't a good thing, as Revenge of the Sith shows. The prequels have issues, but it was very clear that Anakin and Padme's relationship and the way it ended was not something to be romanticized.

That's true but it doesn't make her a well thought out character. She decries unnecessary violence yet is ok with her boyfriend murdering people.

[CosmiComic]

Not that unbelievable compared to real life. Palpatine's rise to power is very similar to how real life dictators take advantage of legitimate societal problems and promise an easy solution to bamboozle the public into giving them unlimited control. He offered them easy scapegoats first in the form of the separatists and then the Jedi whom the public were growing less fond of.

Palpatine beat the Jedi because he was more politically savvy than they were.



It's not that they weren't suspicious, it's that they couldn't afford to look a gift horse in the mouth. The Republic didn't have a standing army and a draft would be unpopular.

Yeah but the Jedi are generally shown as righteous and above politics so why wouldn't they press the matter more? And why couldn't they figure out Palpatine was behind all this. Dooku basically spelled it out

You yourself pointed out that he slaughtered an entire tribe in the second film. Anakin was already established as vulnerable to corruption where his loved where concerned.

Yeah but then he was right back to being a good guy after killing the Tusken Raiders. His descent wasn't consistent

TLJ was the highest grossing movie in the year of its release. I'd love to have a "failure" like that on my resume.

I meant artistically. The ST is no doubt financially successful but I don't think that point is being argued here

[Agent Z]

That's true but it doesn't make her a well thought out character. She decries unnecessary violence yet is ok with her boyfriend murdering people.

People go against their better judgment and ignore their principles when their emotions get the better of them all the time. Cliché as it sounds, the phrase "love is blind" exists for a reason.

[Agent Z]

Yeah but the Jedi are generally shown as righteous and above politics so why wouldn't they press the matter more? And why couldn't they figure out Palpatine was behind all this.

The Jedi being "above politics" is what screwed them over in the first place. Palpatine wasn't fighting the Jedi using the Force, he was using politics himself. He used the image of a benevolent, fairly-elected leader to manipulate the situation in his favor, while the Jedi's apathy towards politics left them running blind. They were getting suspicious of Palpatine in Revenge of the Sith when his power grabs became more obvious, but his position, Anakin's loyalty to him and pressure to focus on ending the war made it impossible to do anything about it.

The situation is a lot more complicated than "the Jedi were idiots". Perhaps the movie needed better acting and less stupid dialogue to get this across, but the message is still there.

Dooku basically spelled it out

You expect the Jedi to take a guy they already know is a Sith and is the main face of the separatist movement, at his word?

Yeah but then he was right back to being a good guy after killing the Tusken Raiders. His descent wasn't consistent

It was a process. Anakin's fall from grace wasn't him simply doing one terrible thing and then going over to the Dark Side. It was a continuing series of mounting tragedies, manipulations from Palpatine and Anakin's own emotional stuntedness dragging him down. That's not inconsistency, that's him struggling not to fall and failing.

[Slowpokeking]

The ST was massive at the box office.

I know a lot of YouTubers are trying very hard to argue otherwise but with the exception of Solo, the Disney/Lucasfilm Star Wars have been very successful at the box office.

So was the PT.

[CosmiComic]

People go against their better judgment and ignore their principles when their emotions get the better of them all the time. Cliché as it sounds, the phrase "love is blind" exists for a reason.

You're right, that does happen, but she didn't even seem fazed at all by that. If she had shown some level of disgust and/or disappointment, then Anakin smooth-talked his way back into her good graces, it would be more believable to me. Otherwise she comes off as callous at best, not just love-stricken

[CosmiComic]

The Jedi being "above politics" is what screwed them over in the first place. Palpatine wasn't fighting the Jedi using the Force, he was using politics himself. He used the image of a benevolent, fairly-elected leader to manipulate the situation in his favor, while the Jedi's apathy towards politics left them running blind. They were getting suspicious of Palpatine in Revenge of the Sith when his power grabs became more obvious, but his position, Anakin's loyalty to him and pressure to focus on ending the war made it impossible to do anything about it.

The situation is a lot more complicated than "the Jedi were idiots". Perhaps the movie needed better acting and less stupid dialogue to get this across, but the message is still there.

If the movie didn't get the message across, then it failed in that respect. I'm not sure how that makes the PT good.

And my point is their apathy should've led the Jedi, or at least Obi-Wan, to not care about the political blowback of further investigating the Chancellor

You expect the Jedi to take a guy they already know is a Sith and is the main face of the separatist movement, at his word?

Of course not. I wouldn't trust Dooku, but that doesn't mean everything he says is necessarily incorrect.

It was a process. Anakin's fall from grace wasn't him simply doing one terrible thing and then going over to the Dark Side. It was a continuing series of mounting tragedies, manipulations from Palpatine and Anakin's own emotional stuntedness dragging him down. That's not inconsistency, that's him struggling not to fall and failing.

But it wasn't continuous. He does one reprehensible thing in AotC, then is a goody goody, then flips after helping Palpatine murder Mace. That's far from consistent. Nothing prior to him killing the Tusken Raiders showed he was that willing to murder. People said he was overly emotional but that's not what his actions indicated.

So was the PT.

I doubt the financial success of either trilogy is really debatable

[Agent Z]

You're right, that does happen, but she didn't even seem fazed at all by that. If she had shown some level of disgust and/or disappointment, then Anakin smooth-talked his way back into her good graces, it would be more believable to me. Otherwise she comes off as callous at best, not just love-stricken

Anakin crying over his mother was enough for her it seemed. I'll admit, this could have been handled better.

[Agent Z]

If the movie didn't get the message across, then it failed in that respect. I'm not sure how that makes the PT good.

And my point is their apathy should've led the Jedi, or at least Obi-Wan, to not care about the political blowback of further investigating the Chancellor

They didn't start suspecting the Chancellor until the third movie where his power grabs were becoming more obvious. They did send Anakin to spy on him and that blew up in their faces. Palpatine was just that much better at political maneuvering.

As I said, both the prequels and the sequels have strengths and weaknesses. One is more coherent than the other, but perhaps not by that much.

Of course not. I wouldn't trust Dooku, but that doesn't mean everything he says is necessarily incorrect.

What possible reason would they have to take him at his word? For all they know, he was trying to send them on a wild goose chase that would leave them too distracted to fight the war.

But it wasn't continuous. He does one reprehensible thing in AotC, then is a goody goody, then flips after helping Palpatine murder Mace. That's far from consistent. Nothing prior to him killing the Tusken Raiders showed he was that willing to murder. People said he was overly emotional but that's not what his actions indicated.

This ignores a lot of how Anakin is depicted in the films. He's frequently shown to be disrespectful and impulsive, he kills Count Dooku when the latter is defenseless, he has a secret marriage that he tells no one about. Saying he killed the Tuskans, then acted like a goody goody, then became bad just isn't accurate, even if you're looking at just the movies. Anakin's potential problems were all but spelled out in the Phantom Menace when Mace Windu warned that the boy's emotional attachments would be an issue.

[basbash99]

I would say the PT were terrible movies, but at least introduced lots of new ideas that other creators were able to make hay with via animated series.

otoh the ST didn't particularly introduce a lot of new ideas, and what new ones were there (Finn & Jannah as reformed Stormtroopers) were barely explored, and unlike with the PT, there seems to be little appetite to explore the aftermath of the ST, at least thus far. instead we are getting tv and comic series that are largely set between PT and OT or between OT and ST.

I did think Force Awakens was OK, even if it was largely a "greatest hits" collection i did like Rey, Finn, and Poe in that movie. Unfortunately the other two movies did very little for me and RoS in particular made me want to forget the entire trilogy. Way to go, Lucasfilms!

[ChrisIII]

This ignores a lot of how Anakin is depicted in the films. He's frequently shown to be disrespectful and impulsive, he kills Count Dooku when the latter is defenseless, he has a secret marriage that he tells no one about. Saying he killed the Tuskans, then acted like a goody goody, then became bad just isn't accurate, even if you're looking at just the movies. Anakin's potential problems were all but spelled out in the Phantom Menace when Mace Windu warned that the boy's emotional attachments would be an issue.

Funny thing is with Dooku is that he seems reluctant to do it until goaded by Palpatine-and even after that he seems very resentful, even when Palpatine tries to justify things.

[godisawesome]

I doubt the financial success of either trilogy is really debatable

Not in an abolished sense no… but in a comparative sense, and in terms of a maximized profit efficiency one, the OT is still the clear king, the PT ends up as a surprising second, and the ST ends up a distant third.

Ideally, any trilogy starting with TFA’s direct (box office) and indirect (merchandise, excitement for the next films) success should probably have maintained that kind of monster pacing, or even increased it. Instead, the direct profit percentage dropped by half - don’t get me wrong, a Billion dollars (TROS) is a Billion dollars… but it’s not 2 billion dollars (TFA), and while all businessman would be happy to see 1.3 Billion dollars (TLJ), they’d also like to have another 700 million guaranteed rather than lost.

And the merchandise sales and excitement for the brand tanked in comparison to where it started - with more than a few people seeing TLJ’s depressing and disappointing strategies and goals undermining the already shaky and ultimately lost cause of Solo.

Plus, merchandise genuinely tanked, and interest in the era effectively died.

The Mandalorian and it’s accompanying shows have effectively superseded the ST, because they maintain much more positive excitement, a growing audience with growing interest, and have clearly superior merchandise sales, without any way to see them as potentially derailing other franchise material like TLJ did to Solo.

It’s a bit like how Iron Man 3 and Age of Ultron are objectively successful films, and how Ike Perlmutter was an objectively successful executive for Marvel cinematic products… but all three were recognized as dead ends or even liabilities to maximum profit and goodwill.

Someone at LFL played the Perlmutter role of discouraging and sabotaging Rey and Finn in favor of Ben Solo and trashing Luke’s return to the screen, and Filoni and Favreau seem to have stepped into the Feige role of making sure the franchise has more profitable assets and fewer liability story decisions.

Like, Book of Boba Fett has some shaky execution… but there’s nothing driving people away as much as Reylo or Sad Luke - and if anything, it turns out the conventional Jedi Master Luke simply brings more people in. And there’s no one sabotaging the successful non-white or male actors like Rian Johnson did, so that’s a plus too…

[mace11]

Star Wars

All nine films of the "Skywalker saga" were nominated for Academy Awards, with wins going to the first two releases. Together with the theatrical live action "anthology" films Rogue One (2016) and Solo (2018), the combined box office revenue of the films equated to over US$10 billion, which makes it the second-highest-grossing film franchise of all time.An additional film, Rogue Squadron, is planned for release. A number of other films, including an independent trilogy, are suggested to be in development.

The ST has pretty much-left fans cold and Lucasfilm apparently don't even know what to do anymore as they haven't announced any more film projects.

Star Wars

Film

Lucasfilm has a number of Star Wars films in development, two of which were confirmed during Disney Investor Day 2020. The first will be a film titled Rogue Squadron, which is being directed by Patty Jenkins. The second is an unspecified film from Taika Waititi, who in May 2020 was announced to be directing a Star Wars film he was co-writing with Krysty Wilson-Cairns.Additionally, a trilogy independent from the Skywalker saga is being written by The Last Jedi writer/director Rian Johnson. In September 2019, it was announced that Kathleen Kennedy and Kevin Feige would collaborate to develop a Star Wars film.In February 2020, a film was announced to be in development from director J. D. Dillard and writer Matt Owens.

[Immortal Weapon]

People say the Clone Wars animated series salvaged the prequels. So I'd just have Dave Filoni do a new series based on the sequels.

That's what Star Wars Resistance aimed to do and it wasn't good.