Become a Master - One of Four

[Sharpandpointies]

To say it a different way, Warren Buffet got really good returns - 22% - over his career by staying on top of things.

To think I'm going to get better than say 10% returns or such by not even half-assing it, but treating it like an app I can absently check once a day and take five minutes to adjust (without reading up on trends, constantly understanding the stock market, whatever) is putting a level of ability to this gift that's not 'real-world' anymore.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

Actually you know what. I want Esoterica for a completely different reason.

Maybe. Maybe I can finally pet Sharp's cats without being throttled by the Missus.

[Nik Hasta]

Actually you know what. I want Esoterica for a completely different reason.

Maybe. Maybe I can finally pet Sharp's cats without being throttled by the Missus.

What is a Cthulhu that has achieved enlightenment exactly?

Still gonna eat humanity or what?

[Sol_M]

To say it a different way, Warren Buffet got really good returns - 22% - over his career by staying on top of things.

To think I'm going to get better than say 10% returns or such by not even half-assing it, but treating it like an app I can absently check once a day and take five minutes to adjust (without reading up on trends, constantly understanding the stock market, whatever) is putting a level of ability to this gift that's not 'real-world' anymore.

I think we're definitely thinking on completely different scales here. 10% returns on what? Your entire wealth? Probably not. But due to the aforementioned online services, investing money into low risk ventures is easier than ever before and most likely will net you more than $500 over a reasonable period of time.

But again, you don't need to be Warren Buffet to do that. The gift would likely just make it easier, it doesn't mean that you need it.

I suppose it also depends on where you're from. If you're in a country with high inflation rates, and you have expendable income, you may invest money like this already since to do otherwise would be to lose wealth over time.

Edit: Basically, my point is that
1) The "gift" is probably not very useful if you don't make any active use of it. In this regard, I agree with you 100%.
2) It's probably still more useful than 500 USD, in an objective sense. Obviously, this is where things get a little subjective as plenty of people are more likely to choose 500 dollars for free now instead of more money later on, with slightly more effort (in fact the ratio of effort to money could be made even smaller). But that's a result of different metacognition, rather than a logically consistent conclusion to "more money and less effort = good". And of course, an argument can be made that you don't need this gift to make more money anyway, how do you calculate how much this gift actually benefits you for a given level of effort?

[Sharpandpointies]

Actually you know what. I want Esoterica for a completely different reason.

Maybe. Maybe I can finally pet Sharp's cats without being throttled by the Missus.

You're welcome to come over! She knows, now.

But sadly, my poor cats are long gone.

I think we're definitely thinking on completely different scales here. 10% returns on what? Your entire wealth? Probably not. But due to the aforementioned online services, investing money into low risk ventures is easier than ever before and most likely will net you more than $500 over a reasonable period of time.

Say I have money to put into those apps. I have a choice.

1. I can put the money in those apps and work them myself. To do so, even to expect decent returns, even as a real-world 'genius' investor, I would need to dedicate time to look at the information. To check the markets occasionally. To update. Even a genius investor, real-world, needs to actually put in a little work to get returns.

2. I can put that money in a TFSA or something equivalent, under the control of experts. Now, these experts don't have the same 'real-world genius' as I do at this if I took the gift, but their records are pretty easy to see (they show them), the funds they use have records dating back years and years to look at, and these experts do this all day long. That's their job. To manage the funds. So they actually ARE putting the time into it...and I'm not.

So it's either 'put a small amount of my own personal time into the app to get back whatever minimal returns I can get, time dependent' (because even the geniuses get out of it what they put in), or 'give it to a pro whose job it is to get me the returns and not have to put any time into it at all, really'.

It doesn't matter if that's 100 bucks, 500 bucks, 1000 bucks, or 10 000 bucks. You want it to grow, and want to do it yourself, even as a real-world genius you need to put time into it. Or you can not put time into it, at all, and have other pretty decent people whose job it is to work on this do it for you.

And no, they won't be getting Buffet's 22% growth rate. But neither will I if I'm only putting minimal effort into reading the stock market, judging stuff with my genius skills, moving stuff around to take advantage, etc.

So I would choose 'leave it to those guys who will likely equal or surpass me being a very distracted and minimally caring genius investor over the long period.'

And that's my point.

[Sol_M]

I do see your point, and I honestly have no idea how to evaluate the whole "genius investor" thing and how it (if at all) increases the money you can already make with minimal effort on your part. If it doesn't then I don't see the point of being a "genius investor" (this isn't even a real thing, as far as I know). I doubt it's pure genius that enables people to multiply their wealth, it's more a matter of existing wealth and mindset.

But here's the description in the OP:
"Master of Commerce - You are a master of all forms of human economic activity. This includes buy and selling, doing deals of all kinds, playing the market, running businesses, and so forth. As good as the greatest market wizards and robber baron tycoons are/were (guys like Warren Buffet, J.P. Morgan, etc.), that’s how good you are."

If you're as good as the greatest market wizards and robber baron tycoons, then I assume you have the necessary information and negotiation skills that comes with it . Which makes you better positioned to, at any level of effort, outdo someone who doesn't have these and is making the same effort.

These are also definitely not skills to scoff at. I don't think we need to default to "spending time working the stock market" as being the big benefit here. What if you could get better deals in day to day life? What if you could negotiate amazing prices for really expensive things, like real estate? It's potentially a lot more money you gain than 500 dollars.

I dunno, YMMV on this, but I feel like it's extremely likely that someone would gradually just be wealthier over time just from going through their life while having better bargaining/negotiation skills and a very sound understanding of how businesses and economics work.

[Sharpandpointies]

I do see your point, and I honestly have no idea how to evaluate the whole "genius investor" thing and how it (if at all) increases the money you can already make with minimal effort on your part. If it doesn't then I don't see the point of being a "genius investor" (this isn't even a real thing, as far as I know). I doubt it's pure genius that enables people to multiply their wealth, it's more a matter of existing wealth and mindset.

There's also some 'genius' at play with regards to making choices and such. But yes, without the existing wealth...it takes wealth to make wealth.

But here's the description in the OP:
"Master of Commerce - You are a master of all forms of human economic activity. This includes buy and selling, doing deals of all kinds, playing the market, running businesses, and so forth. As good as the greatest market wizards and robber baron tycoons are/were (guys like Warren Buffet, J.P. Morgan, etc.), that’s how good you are."

If you're as good as the greatest market wizards and robber baron tycoons, then I assume you have the necessary information and negotiation skills that comes with it . Which makes you better positioned to, at any level of effort, outdo someone who doesn't have these and is making the same effort.

As these aren't magical skills (as noted over and over by the OP), I doubt I would download the stockmarket's current situation in my head, along with all of the history of it. No, I would probably need to do all of that research myself - I could research more quickly and understand what I'm getting more, of course.

But let's assume you're correct, and I get all of the information as of now. All of the history, the current situation as of now. This isn't a magical skill, again, so it's not going to 'auto update' every day - I'm going to need to actually do the work from this point on.

I'm cool with the ability then allowing someone to 'outdo another person who doesn't have the genius and is making the same effort'.

The key point here is the bolded. 'Making the same effort.'

Some experienced guy whose job it is to keep on top of things, and who clearly has some skill (because some of these investment firms have funds with very good rates, I know, even green funds), and is putting in the work daily on these things with their staff...is going to do better than me, the genius, checking an app once a day and never bothering to read a lot about the stock market. Because no, I don't want to do that.

If I'm a genius and want to put in the same amount of time and effort as they are, sure, I'll do better. That's the point I made above. Do I want to put in that time and effort? Like, at all? Nope. Do I want to put in half or a quarter the time and effort, where I'll maybe break even with them? No. And if I'm putting in that much and breaking even with them, why wouldn't I just let them do it?

And if I'm putting in less time and effort than even that, and (again) not breaking even with them, why wouldn't I leave it to them as well?

These are also definitely not skills to scoff at. I don't think we need to default to "spending time working the stock market" as being the big benefit here. What if you could get better deals in day to day life? What if you could negotiate amazing prices for really expensive things, like real estate? It's potentially a lot more money you gain than 500 dollars.

I don't buy homes on a regular basis. We have one in which we are happy. I'm happy with that one. House flipping is contributing to the current issues in the market as well, so I'll pass (and it's also work I don't like to do). I don't buy stuff that requires negotiation of deals - I'm not a millionaire, and likely never will be barring blind luck.

None of these things are applicable to me and how I'm trying to live my life to be happy.

[Sol_M]

There's also some 'genius' at play with regards to making choices and such. But yes, without the existing wealth...it takes wealth to make wealth.

Agreed.

As these aren't magical skills (as noted over and over by the OP), I doubt I would download the stockmarket's current situation in my head, along with all of the history of it. No, I would probably need to do all of that research myself - I could research more quickly and understand what I'm getting more, of course.

But let's assume you're correct, and I get all of the information as of now. All of the history, the current situation as of now. This isn't a magical skill, again, so it's not going to 'auto update' every day - I'm going to need to actually do the work from this point on.

I'm cool with the ability then allowing someone to 'outdo another person who doesn't have the genius and is making the same effort'.

The key point here is the bolded. 'Making the same effort.'

Some experienced guy whose job it is to keep on top of things, and who clearly has some skill (because some of these investment firms have funds with very good rates, I know, even green funds), and is putting in the work daily on these things with their staff...is going to do better than me, the genius, checking an app once a day and never bothering to read a lot about the stock market. Because no, I don't want to do that.

If I'm a genius and want to put in the same amount of time and effort as they are, sure, I'll do better. That's the point I made above. Do I want to put in that time and effort? Like, at all? Nope. Do I want to put in half or a quarter the time and effort, where I'll maybe break even with them? No. And if I'm putting in that much and breaking even with them, why wouldn't I just let them do it?

And if I'm putting in less time and effort than even that, and (again) not breaking even with them, why wouldn't I leave it to them as well?

Fair enough. I'm still convinced that the knowledge and skill of the best of the best in the world of economy and business is worth more than $500, even if there's not much opportunity to make use of it (Heck, even getting a degree in a single subfield would cost far more), but I can understand the sentiment of it feeling useless in the same way a degree can feel useless if you're not utilizing any skills you've learned from it.

I don't buy homes on a regular basis. We have one in which we are happy. I'm happy with that one. House flipping is contributing to the current issues in the market as well, so I'll pass (and it's also work I don't like to do). I don't buy stuff that requires negotiation of deals - I'm not a millionaire, and likely never will be barring blind luck.

None of these things are applicable to me and how I'm trying to live my life to be happy.

It's an unfortunate reality that many of the younger generation will have a hard time owning property and I agree that house flipping is one of the factors that contribute to this, but it kind of goes beyond just that. Negotiation skills can apply to daily adulthood stuff. It can help get better packages when you apply for a job, it can help get better promotions, deals, etc, even in smaller things in life. Obviously, many of these may not be applicable for you, which would explain why none of this interests you. Which is fine, I understand your point about it being a more subjective thing - ie, the metacognition aspect of decision making.

Good talk, this is a perspective I hadn't originally considered.

[Sharpandpointies]

Fair enough. I'm still convinced that the knowledge and skill of the best of the best in the world of economy and business is worth more than $500, even if there's not much opportunity to make use of it (Heck, even getting a degree in a single subfield would cost far more), but I can understand the sentiment of it feeling useless in the same way a degree can feel useless if you're not utilizing any skills you've learned from it.

If it is doing nothing for my life, and involves a set of knowledges with which I have no interest, it is pointless.

Perhaps this is different for you, which is fine. My entire series of posts until now have been about my life, my situation.

It's an unfortunate reality that many of the younger generation will have a hard time owning property and I agree that house flipping is one of the factors that contribute to this, but it kind of goes beyond just that.

I don't understand the need to put in the 'but' at the end, followed by what appears to be a correction of some sort, given I have already stated that house-flipping is contributing to the current issues in the housing market. Contributing, not the 'sole reason'.

Negotiation skills can apply to daily adulthood stuff. It can help get better packages when you apply for a job, it can help get better promotions, deals, etc, even in smaller things in life.

I'm 6 years from retirement in my current job, and it's for the federal government. My promotions are handled by people with whom I have zero contact, and they are based on my current job description (ie, what I'm doing now, not 'can I convince someone to give me a promotion' - further details available upon request, but suffice to say it is not a situation where 'negotiation' will help in the slightest). As for deals, again, I don't buy big ticket items that require negotiation, and if I did (unlikely) I doubt I'd be interested a lot in negotiating. I'm not seeing a lot of room for the use of this skill, and it's something that interests me not at all.

Obviously, many of these may not be applicable for you, which would explain why none of this interests you. Which is fine, I understand your point about it being a more subjective thing - ie, the metacognition aspect of decision making.

My posts thus far have used the words 'I' and 'Me' when I'm explaining why this choice isn't good for 'I' and 'Me' and 'my life', and in no way did I say 'this is absolutely a bad choice for everyone, objectively speaking'; I had felt that to be fairly clear before now.

[Sol_M]

I don't understand the need to put in the 'but' at the end, followed by what appears to be a correction of some sort, given I have already stated that house-flipping is contributing to the current issues in the housing market. Contributing, not the 'sole reason'.

Poorly worded on my part. The section after the 'but' was in regards to the idea that this would be helpful primarily for house flipping. Essentially, what I was getting at is that the real estate thing was just an example, there's countless areas where it could potentially benefit someone.

I'm 6 years from retirement in my current job, and it's for the federal government. My promotions are handled by people with whom I have zero contact, and they are based on my current job description (ie, what I'm doing now, not 'can I convince someone to give me a promotion' - further details available upon request, but suffice to say it is not a situation where 'negotiation' will help in the slightest). As for deals, again, I don't buy big ticket items that require negotiation, and if I did (unlikely) I doubt I'd be interested a lot in negotiating. I'm not seeing a lot of room for the use of this skill, and it's something that interests me not at all.

My posts thus far have used the words 'I' and 'Me' when I'm explaining why this choice isn't good for 'I' and 'Me' and 'my life', and in no way did I say 'this is absolutely a bad choice for everyone, objectively speaking'; I had felt that to be fairly clear before now.

I already understood that this doesn't interest you and why. That doesn't need further explanation. ^^
I've been trying to explain how I believe that $500 is objectively a worse option, although one can justifiably feel that it's not, based on their own circumstances ($500 vs uncertainty about any benefit at all). Clearly we haven't been on the same page regarding what discussion we were actually having, for which I apologize if I've wasted your time.
I thought it was a good discussion regardless, for what it's worth. I certainly hadn't considered the aspect of how work in stock markets for example, weigh against the benefit of hiring people to manage your finances.

[Sharpandpointies]

Nevermind, actually. No real point.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

You're welcome to come over! She knows, now.

But sadly, my poor cats are long gone.

Oh no! Not sure how I missed this/forgot about it.

I am sorry for your loss.

But, if I ever end up in Canada, I'll be sure to swing by!

[Sharpandpointies]

Oh no! Not sure how I missed this/forgot about it.

I am sorry for your loss.

But, if I ever end up in Canada, I'll be sure to swing by!

You are more than welcome to do so, and thank you for the well wishes. ^_^

[Ptrvc]

Would Master of War - Make you a master of all weapon forms as "perfect" skill with any weapon or a master of actual historical weapon based martial arts? It's an important distinction for my interests.

[Shai-Hulud]

Would Master of War - Make you a master of all weapon forms as "perfect" skill with any weapon or a master of actual historical weapon based martial arts? It's an important distinction for my interests.

I’m not sure I understand the question.

Generally speaking, you’d be as skilled with any weapon or fighting style as the best person to ever master it, although there would be crossover aptitude. So you’d probably be able to quickly master any new weapon you came across (like retarded Klingon weapons, the Bat’legh, lol).

This is not an “intuitive aptitude” power, like Forge or Doug Ramsey, but more of a “composite best-ever human race” power. But there’d be synergy and crossover aptitude as well going on. How long would it take a great master to learn new styles? Way less than us amateurs.

Is that what you’re asking?