New Captain America Books Announced

[Toonstrack]

Steve most certainly is Cap. He originated it. Everyone who followed afterwards either tried to maintain the symbol he built up or held it because Steve was either missing, dead or aged.

Daredevil is Matt Murdock. Peter is Spider-man. Logan is Wolverine. There are only a handful of characters where their identities are titles/mantle - Iron Fist, Nova, Captain Britain those are examples of titles/mantles that were designed to be shared around.

Steve made Captain America what it means. "Oh, the dude in the costume doesn't matter! It's the symbol!" How Steve carries himself in the role, who he is, that's why people in the Marvel Universe look up to him. Not because he is dressed up in the America flag.

They can BE a Captain America. But none apart from Steve will ever be THE Captain America.

So you like the mantle because of what the person under the suit does.

But surely you see the storytelling potential for having another character who does things differently in that suit, and how they measure up against the original and how they approach a reputation that precedes them?

Thats nothing new for marvel, they've explored this countless times because of that very notion. The mantle is bigger than the person, but the persons who wear that mantle are just people. Even Steve. So what does it look like when someone else wields the shield? Caotain america is a symbol that represents a nation. Steve rogers is a man. A man can't own a symbol anymore than one person can represent an entire corporation, or even an entire nation.

Thats the way marvel has always looked at it. They've done interesting stories with this. How does a new person wield the spirit of vengeance? What does it look like if Steve ISNT the one wearing the shield but rather its John Walker? How does he change what that symbol represents? Its no different here.

These mantles are the personification of ideas, and ideas aren't owned, they are employed, tested, exercised within people. This goes for DC guys too and why they've done the same thing. Batman is an idea. Bruce founded it, but many can espouse that idea. It can still be defined by what the originator stood for, or it can be a referendum on it. Like all ideas, it can be interpreted different ways.

These are dynamic characters, far more dynamic than simply a costume and a catchy name. They represent people and ideas, and limiting them to just the one they were created with is a missed opportunity, every single time. So I'll always be interested in legacy characters and passing of mantles . I want to see what a black spider man looks like, or does. I want to see what a woman does in the daredevil suit, how she approaches that concept. It keeps things interesting and often can make you appreciate the originator, and their approach, even more.

[marvelprince]

So you like the mantle because of what the person under the suit does.

But surely you see the storytelling potential for having another character who does things differently in that suit, and how they measure up against the original and how they approach a reputation that precedes them?

Thats nothing new for marvel, they've explored this countless times because of that very notion. The mantle is bigger than the person, but the persons who wear that mantle are just people. Even Steve. So what does it look like when someone else wields the shield? Caotain america is a symbol. Steve rogers is a man. A man can't own a symbol anymore than one person can represent an entire corporation.

Thats the way marvel has always looked at it. They've done interesting stories with this. How does a new person wield the spirit of vengeance? What does it look like if Steve ISNT the one wearing the shield but rather its John Walker? How does he change what that symbol represents? Its no different here.

I honestly never get the uproar for this things. If the mantle is intrinsically tied to one person, then it really shouldn’t matter I’ve someone new takes it up cause you know it’s always going to go back the originator. What it does allow is to explore what this mantle means to other characters, the world etc. I just see it as another chapter in the unending story.

[phonogram12]

Change = scary.

[Somecrazyaussie]

So you like the mantle because of what the person under the suit does.

But surely you see the storytelling potential for having another character who does things differently in that suit, and how they measure up against the original and how they approach a reputation that precedes them?

Thats nothing new for marvel, they've explored this countless times because of that very notion. The mantle is bigger than the person, but the persons who wear that mantle are just people. Even Steve. So what does it look like when someone else wields the shield? Caotain america is a symbol that represents a nation. Steve rogers is a man. A man can't own a symbol anymore than one person can represent an entire corporation, or even an entire nation.

Thats the way marvel has always looked at it. They've done interesting stories with this. How does a new person wield the spirit of vengeance? What does it look like if Steve ISNT the one wearing the shield but rather its John Walker? How does he change what that symbol represents? Its no different here.

These mantles are the personification of ideas, and ideas aren't owned, they are employed, tested, exercised within people. This goes for DC guys too and why they've done the same thing. Batman is an idea. Bruce founded it, but many can espouse that idea. It can still be defined by what the originator stood for, or it can be a referendum on it. Like all ideas, it can be interpreted different ways.

These are dynamic characters, far more dynamic than simply a costume and a catchy name. They represent people and ideas, and limiting them to just the one they were created with is a missed opportunity, every single time. So I'll always be interested in legacy characters and passing of mantles . I want to see what a black spider man looks like, or does. I want to see what a woman does in the daredevil suit, how she approaches that concept. It keeps things interesting and often can make you appreciate the originator, and their approach, even more.

Because people make the argument that it doesn't matter who wears the costume and it does. Plus you have some who push for the original to be phased out and the new one to take the lead permanently. While you can do that with some characters like Nova etc, you can't do it for people like Peter or Daredevil.

Again, I didn't mind replacement stories. But we just had Sam as Cap a few years ago. So it isn't new. Nor is having two active Captain America's as that was done briefly with Steve and Bucky.

Legacy characters are DC's thing. Marvel it has never been that way. It's one of the few things that differentiates the two.

[Somecrazyaussie]

I honestly never get the uproar for this things. If the mantle is intrinsically tied to one person, then it really shouldn’t matter I’ve someone new takes it up cause you know it’s always going to go back the originator. What it does allow is to explore what this mantle means to other characters, the world etc. I just see it as another chapter in the unending story.

One we've already had a few years ago. Why rehash it again?

[skyvolt2000]

One we've already had a few years ago. Why rehash it again?

Because it's Marvel's property and they can do what they choose with it.

Especially if you are planning a Sam Wilson CA movie as with Marvel more than DC-that means someone needs material for trades.

Which is all this is really doing. Once they get enough for maybe 4 volumes like the previous run-Sam retires the suit is Falcon.

I honestly never get the uproar for this things. If the mantle is intrinsically tied to one person, then it really shouldn’t matter I’ve someone new takes it up cause you know it’s always going to go back the originator. What it does allow is to explore what this mantle means to other characters, the world etc. I just see it as another chapter in the unending story.

Say that again for all the Dubebros who can't stop throwing fits.

It's story with a set ending.

Like every other time Carol Danvers not withstanding.

[marvelprince]

One we've already had a few years ago. Why rehash it again?

Synergy is the real answer, but personally I’d like to see the full potential of Sam as Cap explored. His run started off with him evil, then either being doubted by himself and the public. He had like one moment in SE. I don’t mind a mulligan.

[Somecrazyaussie]

Because it's Marvel's property and they can do what they choose with it.

Especially if you are planning a Sam Wilson CA movie as with Marvel more than DC-that means someone needs material for trades.

Which is all this is really doing. Once they get enough for maybe 4 volumes like the previous run-Sam retires the suit is Falcon.



Say that again for all the Dubebros who can't stop throwing fits.

It's story with a set ending.

Like every other time Carol Danvers not withstanding.

Again, can't a person have an opinion on here that isnt consensus?

And I take offence to you inferring that I am a dudebro when I am in my late 30s. I am not throwing any fits at all. I had an opinion, I shared it (doing so without offending no one or being rude about it) and I get called out for not drinking the Kool-aid? If I have misgivings regarding an idea, I think I can do so. Simple. It doesn't make me any more entitled than someone who is likewise for said idea.

If you like it, fine. All the power to you.

[Somecrazyaussie]

Synergy is the real answer, but personally I’d like to see the full potential of Sam as Cap explored. His run started off with him evil, then either being doubted by himself and the public. He had like one moment in SE. I don’t mind a mulligan.

Chopping and changing does not help matters. They either should have left him as Cap or not at all. If you are going to make him Cap, commit to the idea.

[Toonstrack]

Because people make the argument that it doesn't matter who wears the costume and it does. Plus you have some who push for the original to be phased out and the new one to take the lead permanently. While you can do that with some characters like Nova etc, you can't do it for people like Peter or Daredevil.

Again, I didn't mind replacement stories. But we just had Sam as Cap a few years ago. So it isn't new. Nor is having two active Captain America's as that was done briefly with Steve and Bucky.

Legacy characters are DC's thing. Marvel it has never been that way. It's one of the few things that differentiates the two.

But it is a thing with marvel. Mantles have swapped many times. Theres been like 4 daredevils. 4 or 5 spider men in 616. 4 caps. At least 3 iron mans. At least 2 black widows. At least 2 Hawkeyes. 3 wolverines. I could go on. Some of these guys are litersllg carrying mantles designed to be passed, like iron fist or black panther.

I do think there needs to be a time in the future where someone else is spider man full time. I think the world needs to progress eventually. What that looks like im not entirely sure but do you really see a still 30 year old Peter being the only guy swinging around in another 80 years?

[Somecrazyaussie]

But it is a thing with marvel. Mantles have swapped many times. Theres been like 4 daredevils. 4 or 5 spider men in 616. 4 caps. At least 3 iron mans. At least 2 black widows. At least 2 Hawkeyes. 3 wolverines. I could go on. Some of these guys are litersllg carrying mantles designed to be passed, like iron fist or black panther.

I do think there needs to be a time in the future where someone else is spider man full time. I think the world needs to progress eventually. What that looks like im not entirely sure but do you really see a still 30 year old Peter being the only guy swinging around in another 80 years?

Iron-fist, yes. Black Panther, yes. Nova, yes. In tose cases, they inherited a title/identity that was passed onto them. But I am talking about characters who originated their identities.

Iron-man is Tony. He created that identity. Yes, Rhodey has been Iron-man on 3 different occasions (1980s, 1990s and briefly again around 2012) and we had Riri. But that identity is linked to Tony. While he is alive and kicking in the books, he should be the only one.

Did people in the 80s expect to be reading about a 20 something year old Peter in 2022?

Some characters will never, ever be fully replaced. If that's the case Bruce would not still be Batman.

My point is, Marvel is the opposite the DC. DC was always a superhero story where drama broke out occasionally, Marvel favoured who was under the mask more than the Mask itself. Mantles were routinely passed on at DC until Didio came in and undid that streak. I just find it wrong to double up on a character when the original is still around.

Miles existed in a world where he was the only Spider-man following Peters death. I feel he should have stayed in his own universe and never been brought over. Because now he is just another Spidey and you lose the story possibilities of him following a dead man. If you think Miles will permanently replace 616 Peter I have a bridge and a opera house I wish to sell you.

Comics, as they are, will not exist in 80 years. I pay $10 here in Australia per comic as it is. I spend $600 or more a month on my pull. We only have a few comic stores operating nationwide. People state side complain as it is now for the $4.99 price point. Wait until they all go $5.99. No, comics need to evolve. Their problems do not stem from the content. But the availability and price of said comic.

[9th.]

I honestly never get the uproar for this things. If the mantle is intrinsically tied to one person, then it really shouldn’t matter I’ve someone new takes it up cause you know it’s always going to go back the originator. What it does allow is to explore what this mantle means to other characters, the world etc. I just see it as another chapter in the unending story.

I don't get it either. The big 2 have made their bread and butter off legacies yet everytime this topic comes up we have this same exact conversation.

[Digifiend]

Spectrum is great...but how did it get to that? How many times has her name been taken by someone else?

At least twice, both times to Genis-Vell. I'm not sure why she changed her name the third time, but the name Spectrum does suit her light based powers, unlike her previous names.

Iron-man is Tony. He created that identity. Yes, Rhodey has been Iron-man on 3 different occasions (1980s, 1990s and briefly again around 2012) and we had Riri. But that identity is linked to Tony. While he is alive and kicking in the books, he should be the only one.

Riri was never Iron Man, despite starring in an Invincible Iron Man run (remember, Tony was still in that book as her AI). She was initially codenameless, before deciding on Ironheart. And she never bothered with a secret identity.

[Somecrazyaussie]

At least twice, both times to Genis-Vell. I'm not sure why she changed her name the third time, but the name Spectrum does suit her light based powers, unlike her previous names.
Riri was never Iron Man, despite starring in an Invincible Iron Man run (remember, Tony was still in that book as her AI). She was initially codenameless, before deciding on Ironheart. And she never bothered with a secret identity.

To be honest, I own the Riri run in Iron-man. However I never bothered to read it. I was livid that Bendis spun this huge media tale that he had wanted to write Tony for ages and intended to write the greatest Iron-man story ever told. We got one story arc and then he started laying plans to replace him. Then, when Marvel forced him to bring Tony back for Legacy and #600, he tossed a fit and left to go to DC.

Thanks for the correct on my oversight, though. That was my mistake.

[skyvolt2000]

At least twice, both times to Genis-Vell. I'm not sure why she changed her name the third time, but the name Spectrum does suit her light based powers, unlike her previous names.
Riri was never Iron Man, despite starring in an Invincible Iron Man run (remember, Tony was still in that book as her AI). She was initially codenameless, before deciding on Ironheart. And she never bothered with a secret identity.

Funny folks forget Doom called himself Ironman to none of the toxic vigor that Riri got. Nor did anyone have an issue with Frank Castle as War Machine.