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  1. #181
    Ghost Panther Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    Too many times. I won't be surprised if her name changes again at some point in the future.
    Just call her Monica.

  2. #182
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tofali View Post
    Losing her code name became part of her character "development"
    Funny how that works out. Most characters get a new name and it's usually a promotion. But not Monica.

    At any rate, count me in the group that thinks Marvel should have left the Falcon as the Falcon. I get why they made him Captain America, but so long as Steve Rogers is alive and active, it's always going to be problematic for anyone and everyone else to use that name.

    Having said that, I don't typically read Captain America books, no matter who carries the shield. I might pick up an issue if Misty Knight is featured, but otherwise, let them write what they will. Nothing short of a complete revamp of Sam's powerset is going to get me to regularly subscribe.

  3. #183
    Astonishing Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    Well, in fairness, Spectrum isn't a horrible name. I just like jabbing at Marvel's hypocrisy with the point of my dagger. A little blood trickles out, but not enough to convince me that they're human and care about Monica .. or any other character like Monica.
    It's a horrible name.

    "Don't worry Spectrum is here."

    "Sorry lady I have AT&T"

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100
    Just call her Monica.
    No.
    It's bad enough that we have to call Miles by his first name.
    We have to call Luke Cage by his FAKE first name. His real name is Carl Lucas.
    We have to use Sam whenever Falcon decides to be a Captain.
    We will not call Spectrum Monica no matter how awful the name is.
    The line must be drawn somewhere. It will be drawn here and now.
    I don't care if she is named after a cable and internet provider.
    Last edited by Anthony W; 01-25-2022 at 09:03 PM. Reason: I SAY THEE NAY!
    "The Marvel EIC Chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane, and ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in." Christopher Priest

  4. #184
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    It's a horrible name.

    "Don't worry Spectrum is here."

    "Sorry lady I have AT&T"



    No.
    It's bad enough that we have to call Miles by his first name.
    We have to call Luke Cage by his FAKE first name. His real name is Carl Lucas.
    We have to use Sam whenever Falcon decides to be a Captain.
    We will not call Spectrum Monica no matter how awful the name is.
    The line must be drawn somewhere. It will be drawn here and now.
    I don't care if she is named after a cable and internet provider.
    I get it. Good luck getting Marvel to change. After 40+ years, I'm pretty much done with them. Just ready for a good laugh when they change Monica's code name to Nightstar, or BattleVixen, or Starburstra, or Madame Muon, or EM Lass, or whatever. It's definitely never going back to Captain Marvel in the comics.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    It's a horrible name.

    "Don't worry Spectrum is here."

    "Sorry lady I have AT&T"



    No.
    It's bad enough that we have to call Miles by his first name.
    We have to call Luke Cage by his FAKE first name. His real name is Carl Lucas.
    We have to use Sam whenever Falcon decides to be a Captain.
    We will not call Spectrum Monica no matter how awful the name is.
    The line must be drawn somewhere. It will be drawn here and now.
    I don't care if she is named after a cable and internet provider.
    Didn't Luke Cage legally change his name? So he chose to be Luke Cage.

  6. #186
    Astonishing Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Didn't Luke Cage legally change his name? So he chose to be Luke Cage.
    Oh boy, here we go. Luke Cage is the name he went by when he was framed for a crime he didn't commit. Once his name was cleared he....kept it. Does that make any sense?

    "Wow I'm sure glad my name was cleared for that crime I didn't commit!. I'm going to hold on to that fake name I was using to evade the authorities and never go back to using my real name ever again! Yeah, I love both my parents what makes you think I don't?"

    That makes no sense. The character's real name should be Carl Lucas and he should just go by the name Power Man. The problem is if the character is called Power Man again we might actually start expecting things from the character instead of some dude confined to Harlem (Harlem does not need is own superhero) refusing to wear a costume out of some misguided sense of "keeping it real". Now Marvel wants to make him Mayor. Mayor....Cage? If there was ever a character begging for a thorough Tom King deconstruction it's Luke Cage. Usually I'm against Tom King's brand of deconstruction because tends to make great characters worse. Luke Cage is already terrible so I'm betting it would make him better.
    "The Marvel EIC Chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane, and ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in." Christopher Priest

  7. #187
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    Oh boy, here we go. Luke Cage is the name he went by when he was framed for a crime he didn't commit. Once his name was cleared he....kept it. Does that make any sense?

    "Wow I'm sure glad my name was cleared for that crime I didn't commit!. I'm going to hold on to that fake name I was using to evade the authorities and never go back to using my real name ever again! Yeah, I love both my parents what makes you think I don't?"

    That makes no sense. The character's real name should be Carl Lucas and he should just go by the name Power Man. The problem is if the character is called Power Man again we might actually start expecting things from the character instead of some dude confined to Harlem (Harlem does not need is own superhero) refusing to wear a costume out of some misguided sense of "keeping it real". Now Marvel wants to make him Mayor. Mayor....Cage? If there was ever a character begging for a thorough Tom King deconstruction it's Luke Cage. Usually I'm against Tom King's brand of deconstruction because tends to make great characters worse. Luke Cage is already terrible so I'm betting it would make him better.
    The period when Bendis had him hanging out with the Avengers, where they'd be in full costumes, and Luke would just wear casual clothes was one of the things that drove me away from the book.

    The other thing that drove me away from Avengers was everything else Bendis was doing with it.

  8. #188
    Astonishing Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    The period when Bendis had him hanging out with the Avengers, where they'd be in full costumes, and Luke would just wear casual clothes was one of the things that drove me away from the book.

    The other thing that drove me away from Avengers was everything else Bendis was doing with it.
    Yeah, I also don't get the whole Cage being ashamed of his roots. He was a "super-hero" for hire. Super-heroes have code-names and flashy costumes. Deal with it.
    It was more like Bendis being ashamed of thinking that Luke was cool, when he obviously never got tired of hinting that super-heroes were silly, and he was too cool for them. For me, Cage will always be Power Man, and the last time I saw "the real" Cage was in Ostrander and Ferry's H4H.

    Peace

  9. #189
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    I picked up "Power Man and Iron Fist" as a small child precisely because it sounded so cool. It sounds like something that should be punctuated with a Charlie's Angels style explosion cheesey special effect. "POWER MAN AND IRON FIST!!!" *strikes fighting pose as cartoon explosion goes off in the background*

    Cage and Iron Fist is, by comparison, as bland as cucumbers and cottage cheese on soggy whitebread. Cage and Iron Fist reminds me of what Nadia said about the name Jeff.

  10. #190
    Fantastic Member Toonstrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    It makes perfect sense for him to give it back. Because he's NOT cap. He was just using the name was the real guy was unavailable.

    That's how it should work. If you fill in for Captain America, or Iron Man, or SPider-man, or NFL SuperPro or anybody else when the real guy comes back, you give him back his name.
    Cap is a mantle. That sam Wilson was holding. He wasn't the first to hold it aside from Steve. Steve rogers has held many mantles aside from cap. Steve isn't cap, Steve is steve and he is usually in the mantle of cap. Same goes for the other marvel heroes, most of them anyway.

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toonstrack View Post
    Cap is a mantle. That sam Wilson was holding. He wasn't the first to hold it aside from Steve. Steve rogers has held many mantles aside from cap. Steve isn't cap, Steve is steve and he is usually in the mantle of cap. Same goes for the other marvel heroes, most of them anyway.
    Steve most certainly is Cap. He originated it. Everyone who followed afterwards either tried to maintain the symbol he built up or held it because Steve was either missing, dead or aged.

    Daredevil is Matt Murdock. Peter is Spider-man. Logan is Wolverine. There are only a handful of characters where their identities are titles/mantle - Iron Fist, Nova, Captain Britain those are examples of titles/mantles that were designed to be shared around.

    Steve made Captain America what it means. "Oh, the dude in the costume doesn't matter! It's the symbol!" How Steve carries himself in the role, who he is, that's why people in the Marvel Universe look up to him. Not because he is dressed up in the America flag.

    They can BE a Captain America. But none apart from Steve will ever be THE Captain America.
    Last edited by Somecrazyaussie; 01-27-2022 at 02:38 AM.

  12. #192
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toonstrack View Post
    Cap is a mantle. That sam Wilson was holding. He wasn't the first to hold it aside from Steve. Steve rogers has held many mantles aside from cap. Steve isn't cap, Steve is steve and he is usually in the mantle of cap. Same goes for the other marvel heroes, most of them anyway.
    I couldn't agree with you less.

    Everything you think of when you think of Captain America comes from Steve. Everything Spider-man is comes from Peter Peter Parker. Same for Bruce Banner and Hulk, Tony and Ironman, or Logan and Wolverine.

    When you stick another guy in the suit, that's all you're doing. You're just having them dress up as somebody else's identity.

  13. #193
    Aged Howler tliscord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    I couldn't agree with you less.

    Everything you think of when you think of Captain America comes from Steve. Everything Spider-man is comes from Peter Peter Parker. Same for Bruce Banner and Hulk, Tony and Ironman, or Logan and Wolverine.

    When you stick another guy in the suit, that's all you're doing. You're just having them dress up as somebody else's identity.
    Maybe it’ll still be a good Sam Wilson story, with a different wardrobe. Who knows? I suppose on the other hand they could dress him up in drag.
    “We’ve learned that quiet isn’t always peace and the norms and notions of what just is, isn’t always justice.”

  14. #194
    Astonishing Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    I agree wholeheartedly with those that state that Steve IS Captain America, everyone else is just a place holder. The story had been endlessly done, someone else steps into the mantle (to use the vernacular of the arguement), they do well or they do poorly, however, in the end of the day, everything that really matters about Captain America comes from Steve Rogers. It's the same with Iron Man, Spider-Man, Thor, Black Panther, etc... These guys created those identities, with the values they represent. Sadly, I feel the same about Sam and the Falcon ID, and I feel sorry that Marvel seems insistent in trying to shoehorn him into Cap's boots, instead of just investing in making him a big name just as himself.

    Peace

  15. #195
    Aged Howler tliscord's Avatar
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    Well, if the shoehorn fits …..
    “We’ve learned that quiet isn’t always peace and the norms and notions of what just is, isn’t always justice.”

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