DC Announces Death of the Justice League

[Superboy-Prime]

Very unlikely the plan was to move Jace all along, as we got Jace narration of how Batman left Gotham and hasn't been seen in years and how he's going to be there for Gotham... only to move away few issues later.

Much more likely the surprise was his sister becoming his sidekick or something like that. Moving to NY is far from being an impressive surprise. More like a forced relaunch after unsuccessful beginning.

Your theory doesn't sound right to me, because Tiffany is already becoming his sidekick in issue #8. Moving to New York sounds like a big surprise to me, it's a new setting for the character.

I mean, if your whole thing was right, they'd have used Bruce leaving Gotham to try and make Jace the main Batman there for a while.

[Lal]

Your theory doesn't sound right to me, because Tiffany is already becoming his sidekick in issue #8. Moving to New York sounds like a big surprise to me, it's a new setting for the character.

I mean, if your whole thing was right, they'd have used Bruce leaving Gotham to try and make Jace the main Batman there for a while.

But he couldn't have been the main player in Gotham when his launching was received with lukewarm enthusiasm, when there's a huge batfamily event and the Batgirls are also launching and Robin is back. There are just too many players in Gotham, far more experienced than Jace, for him to get the main stage. And we know Bruce is already back in April in Detective comics.

DC probably decided they prefer Jace as the main hero somewhere else than just one more hero in Gotham. But this move isn't a success story.

[Superboy-Prime]

But he couldn't have been the main player in Gotham when his launching was received with lukewarm enthusiasm, when there's a huge batfamily event and the Batgirls are also launching and Robin is back. There are just too many players in Gotham, far more experienced than Jace, for him to get the main stage. And we know Bruce is already back in April in Detective comics.

DC probably decided they prefer Jace as the main hero somewhere else than just one more hero in Gotham. But this move isn't a success story.

Like Superman: Son of Kal-El didn't make Jon Kent the main player while he had "lukewarm enthusiasm" for 4 issues too? And Conner Kent and Kara aren't more experienced than him?

[Lal]

Like Superman: Son of Kal-El didn't make Jon Kent the main player while he had "lukewarm enthusiasm" for 4 issues too? And Conner Kent and Kara aren't more experienced than him?

The difference is that most Superman characters don't have strong fan bases and sell considerably less than the Bat characters.
If Comner and Kara would have sold 50k a month each, we'd have probably seen a very different picture in the super books as well.

[Superboy-Prime]

The difference is that most Superman characters don't have strong fan bases and sell considerably less than the Bat characters.
If Comner and Kara would have sold 50k a month each, we'd have probably seen a very different picture in the super books as well.

But Jace was already outselling Nightwing and Robin when his book launched.

[Lal]

But Jace was already outselling Nightwing and Robin when his book launched.

No. When Robin launched, it was amongst the top 10 bestselling books of the month. When Jace launched? Not even top 30.
The first issues always sell great and decline very fast. By issue #2 Jace barely made the top 50.

[Superboy-Prime]

No. When Robin launched, it was amongst the top 10 bestselling books of the month. When Jace launched? Not even top 30.
The first issues always sell great and decline very fast. By issue #2 Jace barely made the top 50.

I think him having a #0 could account for that decline, but still, he did outsell them. Doesn't matter to me, though, as long as people are mad, I'm happy. And I've got a feeling you guys are going to be outraged for months.

[Goldrake]

Suddenly making sense why Yara's Wonder Girl title - which seemed to be pretty well liked - got cancelled.
Couldn't start a new arc when she's about to move over and take the main role in Wonder Woman.

Hope DC isn't overestimating the pull of the 5G characters though...they seemed much more enjoyable with Bruce, Clark and Diana running around in their own titles.
Without the main 3 will readers just flock in droves?

Would love to see the JSA step up to take the reigns, but DC hates their fans too much to give us what we want...

Yara was initially well liked but sales dropped after first issues.
All new characters that are supposed to take over the mantle of clark, diana, arthur etc are doing badly at sales.

[Ascended]

Regarding the public domain....I've talked about it a bit lately too, but we are really ahead of the curve here; Action #1 doesn't hit the domain for another....eleven?....years, and that's assuming Disney and WB don't successfully lobby for another extension.

Steamboat Willie will enter public domain in 2024 under current law, so any action corporations take to protect their copyright will happen before that.

Whether the attempt will be successful is another matter. The safe bet, of course, is that politicians line their pockets with Mouse money and extend the law. But there's a few points that make this *slightly* less of a foregone conclusion; public opinion, greater awareness of how copyright law has been changed to benefit the rich elite, and there's never actually been a good legal argument for extending the law anyway. It's possible that this is a fight politicians don't want to get into and they'll let the law stand rather than risk pissing off voters and losing their next election. I wouldn't bet on that, but we'll see what the socio-political climate is like after midterms.

If the law does stand (unlikely as that seems), when Clark enters the domain it'll just be the version from 1938. And that guy bears little resemblance to the Superman most people are familiar with. And DC/WB will still have the active trademark (which can be maintained in perpetuity) so this isn't the solution to DC's mismanagement that some of y'all might be thinking it is. It could still be good for the character, I believe that it likely would be, but time will tell.

Anyway, as for this death of the League thing....I'm confused. I hear that the JL book will be off the shelves for a while, which is fine, but it seems like the rest of the publishing line isn't acknowledging this? Seems like Bruce and Clark and Diana and the rest are still active in their own titles so what exactly is this going to achieve beyond giving the JL book a break?

It seems like such a cheap gimmick. I'd be pretty happy about an opportunity for other heroes and teams to get the spotlight; the League and its Big 7 roster have become a glass ceiling holding everyone else back. But if the League heroes are still alive and kicking in their own books there's damn little room for such development. The fact that they're all dying first just makes any of this even less likely to matter six months later, because you know DC isn't going to keep any of the Big Names dead for very long. And I think DC would just use this as an opportunity to push their current pet characters and the Future State roster, rather than making any kind of genuine effort to elevate longstanding, "deserving" characters and teams.

This could be the chance for characters like Nightwing, Cyborg, Power Girl, Firestorm, Blue Beetle, etc., to step up and take the reins as earth's greatest heroes. But instead I think we'll just get a Junior Justice League team, with a roster of Big 7 legacies made up mostly of rookies who haven't earned the right to call themselves the "greatest" anything, much less the greatest heroes on earth.

[Goldrake]

Regarding the public domain....I've talked about it a bit lately too, but we are really ahead of the curve here; Action #1 doesn't hit the domain for another....eleven?....years, and that's assuming Disney and WB don't successfully lobby for another extension.

Steamboat Willie will enter public domain in 2024 under current law, so any action corporations take to protect their copyright will happen before that.

Whether the attempt will be successful is another matter. The safe bet, of course, is that politicians line their pockets with Mouse money and extend the law. But there's a few points that make this *slightly* less of a foregone conclusion; public opinion, greater awareness of how copyright law has been changed to benefit the rich elite, and there's never actually been a good legal argument for extending the law anyway. It's possible that this is a fight politicians don't want to get into and they'll let the law stand rather than risk pissing off voters and losing their next election. I wouldn't bet on that, but we'll see what the socio-political climate is like after midterms.

If the law does stand (unlikely as that seems), when Clark enters the domain it'll just be the version from 1938. And that guy bears little resemblance to the Superman most people are familiar with. And DC/WB will still have the active trademark (which can be maintained in perpetuity) so this isn't the solution to DC's mismanagement that some of y'all might be thinking it is. It could still be good for the character, I believe that it likely would be, but time will tell.

Anyway, as for this death of the League thing....I'm confused. I hear that the JL book will be off the shelves for a while, which is fine, but it seems like the rest of the publishing line isn't acknowledging this? Seems like Bruce and Clark and Diana and the rest are still active in their own titles so what exactly is this going to achieve beyond giving the JL book a break?

It seems like such a cheap gimmick. I'd be pretty happy about an opportunity for other heroes and teams to get the spotlight; the League and its Big 7 roster have become a glass ceiling holding everyone else back. But if the League heroes are still alive and kicking in their own books there's damn little room for such development. The fact that they're all dying first just makes any of this even less likely to matter six months later, because you know DC isn't going to keep any of the Big Names dead for very long. And I think DC would just use this as an opportunity to push their current pet characters and the Future State roster, rather than making any kind of genuine effort to elevate longstanding, "deserving" characters and teams.

This could be the chance for characters like Nightwing, Cyborg, Power Girl, Firestorm, Blue Beetle, etc., to step up and take the reins as earth's greatest heroes. But instead I think we'll just get a Junior Justice League team, with a roster of Big 7 legacies made up mostly of rookies who haven't earned the right to call themselves the "greatest" anything, much less the greatest heroes on earth.

problem is the rookies don't sell, as we can see, even what was considered the breakout character of FS, Yara got canceled. Replacing the old characters with rookies will not work, they even tried some publicity stunt as in the case of Jon Kent coming out, it sold with that issue, but wasn't even able to make it to top 50 the succeeding month. The new Aquaman languishes at the bottom of the sales list.

[Superboy-Prime]

problem is the rookies don't sell, as we can see, even what was considered the breakout character of FS, Yara got canceled. Replacing the old characters with rookies will not work, they even tried some publicity stunt as in the case of Jon Kent coming out, it sold with that issue, but wasn't even able to make it to top 50 the succeeding month.

Superman: Son of Kal-El was #45 in icv2's Top 50 Comic Books by Dollars list of December 2021. And Yara got more delays than Cyberpunk 2077.

[Goldrake]

Superman: Son of Kal-El was #45 in icv2's Top 50 Comic Books by Dollars list of December 2021. And Yara got more delays than Cyberpunk 2077.

Wrong he did not make it to Top 50 check again. #45 is House of Slaughter. The only two non bat books to make it to the list are WW Historia and Justice League Incarnate. And by Dollar list it is a significant drop from 6, means thousands dropped it and that is the Annual that made it to that list.
Yara got canceled because the story went downhill, she was supposed to be Brazilian and turns out she is from Idaho.

[Superboy-Prime]

Wrong he did not make it to Top 50 check again. #45 is House of Slaughter. The only two non bat books to make it to the list are WW Historia and Justice League Incarnate. And by Dollar list it is a significant drop from 6, means thousands dropped it and that is the Annual that made it to that list.
Yara got canceled because the story went downhill, she was supposed to be Brazilian and turns out she is from Idaho.

I specifically stated Top 50 Comic Books by Dollars, Mr. Goldrake, I'm quite confident in my reading skills. I have 20/20 vision and have had perfect eyesight since early 2011.

Superman: Son of Kal-El only released an Annual in December. Are you sure you want to act like an authority on sales, Mr. Goldrake, you don't seem very up to date on these books.

[Goldrake]

I specifically stated Top 50 Comic Books by Dollars, Mr. Goldrake, I'm quite confident in my reading skills. I have 20/20 vision and have had perfect eyesight since early 2011.

Superman: Son of Kal-El only released an Annual in December. Are you sure you want to act like an authority on sales, Mr. Goldrake, you don't seem very up to date on these books.

Mr. Superman: Son of Kal-EL, other annuals did better and did not have the hype the character got.

[The Darknight Detective]

It's just impossible to do at this point. Bruce is irreplaceable, character is too big and popular.

Was there actually a time that it would actually happen? Maybe before Adam West, but certainly not on a permanent basis after the TV show.