Devil's Reign X-Men #1 (spoilers)

[Mercury]

As Harpsikord noted in another thread, **** around and find out:

[Mercury]

[Exodus]

I find it interesting how many people are irritated seeing Jean's diplomatic character trades in this arc. I love her as a pacifist and politician. She could just come in, uses her powers, and forces everybody to do what she likes. But she doesn't.

[xhx23x]

I find it interesting how many people are irritated seeing Jean's diplomatic character trades in this arc. I love her as a pacifist and politician. She could just come in, uses her powers, and forces everybody to do what she likes. But she doesn't.

I'm struggling to see what the problem was here too. I thought this was solid as hell for everyone.

[ExodusCloak]

To be honest I think thats the least interesting part of the issue. I am wondering how they lock Emma in prison. Does the Q.C vote to hand her over. Does she Volunteer. Do the X-Men volunteer to bring her over

[Exodus]

I'm struggling to see what the problem was here too. I thought this was solid as hell for everyone.

It is super funny actually. So many in this forum get all mad when Jean uses her powers and pushes Lorna, for example, to agree that she wants to be an X-Men. And people also get all mad when Jean is all diplomatic and does not use her powers......

[xhx23x]

To be honest I think thats the least interesting part of the issue. I am wondering how they lock Emma in prison. Does the Q.C vote to hand her over. Does she Volunteer. Do the X-Men volunteer to bring her over

I'm honestly thinking she will volenteer. It gives the QC plausible deniability and she's been in prison before. Plus, with Krakoa's resources they can probably find a way to solve it that doesn't require her to lift a finger.

It is super funny actually. So many in this forum get all mad when Jean uses her powers and pushes Lorna, for example, to agree that she wants to be an X-Men. And people also get all mad when Jean is all diplomatic and does not use her powers......

There's no winning which way you go it seems.

[Gray Lensman]

It is super funny actually. So many in this forum get all mad when Jean uses her powers and pushes Lorna, for example, to agree that she wants to be an X-Men. And people also get all mad when Jean is all diplomatic and does not use her powers......

Jean is normally diplomatic, it shouldn't be an issue. And when she does stuff like pushing Lorna, it was about not letting a friend be done in by self doubt. Jean has bitter experience about seeing someone she cares about wallow in that particular character trait, after all.

[jmc247]

It is super funny actually. So many in this forum get all mad when Jean uses her powers and pushes Lorna, for example, to agree that she wants to be an X-Men. And people also get all mad when Jean is all diplomatic and does not use her powers......

Then people complain bitterly she should have agreed with Lorna on mindwiping the Avengers and not doing so makes her a Care Bear.



There is a method to Jean's ideology being presented of good intentions and an attempt to create an ethical framework to her actions that she will bend in select cases to help others when she thinks they want help.

[MechaJeanix]

Leah Williams' opinion that Emma is a scalpel and Jean is a sledgehammer, which is where this misconception began, doesn't hold any weight with me. As far as I am concerned, it's quite simple: Jean can do everything Emma can and, though there are things Jean may need Emma's help for--which, by the way, Emma could also not do alone, i.e., if the situation were reversed, she would need Jean's help--there are also things Jean can do that Emma can't.

This may be a controversial statement but it is based on what is canon. In the past, Jean was stated to be both second only to Xavier and the most powerful telepath on the planet. Currently, she has been referred to as "surpassing" Xavier. The only other person that could, in theory, reach her level and surpass her, albeit temporarily (remember, Omega Level mutants have infinite room and power reserves with which to grow), is Quentin Quire, and he still takes lessons from her.

That being said, I would be genuinely interested in seeing Jean and Emma develop an actual friendship that transcends snark and respect. They have a very long history together that could inform a moving and compelling story centered on just them.

Not to derail this thread, but I agree with your criticism of Leah's comments regarding Emma and Jean. Ever since she made the comment - initially on her tumblr and later on twitter, fans have repeated it. JDW has even repeated it, but it just doesn't hold true to what we have seen in the comics (especially regarding Jean's powers - Jean has both the skill and raw power).

Having said that, it is obvious that they use their powers in different ways and I like that. Jean and Emma have different motivations for how they use their powers. They have different ethics. I also like that Jean and Emma work together. I hope we get to see more of that in this miniseries even if only in brief scenes. They can make a great team - as we have seen in the silent psychic rescue adventures.

Duggan does really well with Emma, and I'm interested to see where this story goes. I admit I was kind of sad that Duggan is losing Emma (he's no longer writing Marauders and she's off to another book).

I saw folks criticizing both Scott and Jean due to this issue, but they are the X-men leaders, the dad and mom characters as it were- which means they will often take the high road, be the mature characters, and often the voice of "reason". Having said that Polaris got to be more wild, fun, and free. Duggan's Polaris is very fun.

[JB]

Just cross-posting this here.

I finally read Devil's Reign today, and it was good. In line with what I've hoped to see with depiction of Lorna. I think Duggan's doing well with her.

Like jmc said, I believe this story did a good job of demonstrating the differing approaches between Emma, Jean, and Lorna, and provides an excellent setup for how the three of them could operate together. Here's my impressions based on these depictions. Jean is a good will diplomatic type, someone who prefers restraint and cooperation, whose use of her powers in these situations would be more for getting useful information toward that end than anything else. Emma is a cunning back deal political type, who would be willing to exploit her powers to get what she wants even if it crosses lines. And Lorna, in these situations, can play it cool and playful but if push comes to shove she's ready to tear everything down to take what she wants even if she burns some bridges.

Out of this, we see some initial conflict and hiccups in their philosophies though they don't come to blows over it. None of the three really know what the other two are thinking and planning. Jean just wanted Lorna to stall for time. Lorna, left with an impression nothing was happening and faced with a conflict, was ready to act on her own to end it, only for Jean to come in and restrain Lorna from doing something Jean wouldn't have agreed with. Jean, not knowing what Emma was doing, was ready to move operations out of New York (which is what Fisk wanted) to save their image in the diplomatic sphere and avoid conflict with Fisk despite him being a villain. She was stopped from that course by Emma showing up, revealing she managed to cunning their way into the X-Men staying by overruling Fisk with the United Nations.

We didn't get as much panel time with Lorna, but what we did get, I think did a great job of demonstrating where Lorna can fit with Jean and Emma where they all get respectful use and different points of view that don't overlap with each other. Each of these philosophies isn't inherently bad or good. They're just better in some situations than others, especially depending on your goals.

Excellent post.

[hairys]

i see this story playing out two ways:

A) Elektra kills the girl and Emma uses her powers to cover it up, which involves mindwiping several heroes (the ones on the next issue cover) and police officers making her an accessory in the murder, but she gets way with because of krakoa laws or something else convenient.

B) Elektra does not kill the girl and instead has Emma help make the kid a ghost in the wind, tricking fisk and making him look foolish at the end of the story. she still does all the shady mental stuff to the other heroes though and there are no most likely no repercussions (in either scenario).

i feel like B is more likely as this is written by duggan in the krakoa era and he wont make emma involved in child killing,

Yeah my gut assumption is this mini will end with the revelation that Elektra and Emma faked the girl's death before ever reporting back to Fisk, because they knew Fisk would demand she be killed to cover up any knowledge of his involvement, should Elektra and Emma's connection to him ever be discovered.

Great job, guys. Yeah, I think there's a 99% chance you'll end up being right. It's a pretty bad tie-in when the central narrative can be easily predicted from the beginning.

But maybe there will be some cool character moments to make up for it.

[Crimz]

Saw the name of the second issue, so you know imma be here

[Spiderfan001]

Then people complain bitterly she should have agreed with Lorna on mindwiping the Avengers and not doing so makes her a Care Bear.



There is a method to Jean's ideology being presented of good intentions and an attempt to create an ethical framework to her actions that she will bend in select cases to help others when she thinks they want help.

I think the complaint was they both were dumb enough to walk the Avengers to Arbor Magna and not literally any other route.It's their island

[PolarIceFire]

I'm going to take the liberty of referencing Salarta's excellent summation, in offering my own boiled down, oversimplified riff on the varying M.O.'s of our mutant protagonists.

Jean = deliberative, you know, like Xavier
Lorna = instinctive, like her father, Magneto
Emma = manipulative, as family & Hellfire taught her

This is not to say each is that only, and incapable of the other two, because that would be silly. They absolutely can be and certainly are all 3, of course. It's just these approaches are what they lean into the strongest, and where they operate from most... maybe? IDK, but given their respective Darkhölme & Howlett "tribal" influences, I'll add that I'd probably put both Rogue & Laura in with Polaris. Though Anna Marie has become somewhat more considered over the years, she still pretty much shoots from the hip, more often than not.

Also, thinking on it all, a shoutout to Lorna's tactile, "negotiating" techniques of passive resistance. She bought Ems the time she needed to do her good, dirty work. Makes sense that PHD of hers would = intuitive *smarts*, though.