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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member mugiwara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subliminally View Post
    I didn't know that was a thing. I googled and it is in fact a thing. So who has memory loss?
    Taskmaster often loses memories to make room for new skills.
    But I'm not sure that would count as a no-prize, because something he'll probably always remember is the people he fought.
    Bringing back the old, killing the young: that's the Marvel way

  2. #17
    Spectacular Member Rakurai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    Still better than what Duggan did to Laura. Itís not like scans of her kicking Taskyís ass in ANW arenít the FIRST THING THAT COMES UP if you Google ďX-23 vs Taskmaster.Ē
    Even worse, it's first comics scan when you google "Wolverine Taskmaster". I don't see Logan fighting Tasky, only Laura and Akihiro.
    Does someone knows if in comics Logan and Taskmaster fought?


    Quote Originally Posted by mugiwara View Post
    Taskmaster often loses memories to make room for new skills.
    But I'm not sure that would count as a no-prize, because something he'll probably always remember is the people he fought.
    Exactly. People comment about memory loss, but it's personal stuff he forgets. Who he met, talked to, had sex with. Not who he fought, if they have unique fighting style. And since Laura defeated him by using her foot claws I'd guess that would be memorable.

    The issue wasn't that bad, but the Tasky/Laura thing pissed me off so badly, that I'm still mad. Also her answer, as always, is ooc. It could be saved if she said something like "Bold of you to forget fights you lost" but like that, it's meh. I thought editors were one to check stuff like that.
    I'll be interested in next issues if there is no X-Men involved.

  3. #18
    Incredible Member Thundershot's Avatar
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    I thought it was good. Jean was just being smart and not falling for Fisk’s bait.

    Also… I really hope this will be her costume from now on. I’m one of the few who likes the green dress, but if it’s not that, then this should be the main one.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundershot View Post
    I thought it was good. Jean was just being smart and not falling for Fiskís bait.

    AlsoÖ I really hope this will be her costume from now on. Iím one of the few who likes the green dress, but if itís not that, then this should be the main one.
    This was a matter that had to be handled politically and diplomatically. And Emma Frost did so.

    Jean was just saying they had a lot to lose if they fought the Thunderbolts or the police. And while the other superheroes got kicked out of NY, the XMen government to stay because Emma knows politics and the law.

  5. #20
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Thank you for relaying my message, Harpsikord! As I tweeted yesterday:

    Devil’s Reign: X-Men #1 (2022) is another hit. Jean’s sarcasm, shrewdness, and cool resolve are just…::chef's kiss:: Her amicable exchange with Emma was also great. Frankly, I’d like to see more moments like this between the two. #XSpoilers

    https://twitter.com/Jean_RED_Grey/st...70386886111239

    So far, 196 people agree with me... The fact that people actually think Jean was serious when referring to Kingpin as Mayor both puzzles me and makes me lmao. As for her being a pacifist, I think she made it pretty clear to Fisk that he wasn't getting through the gate. As she noted, "I'd rather pick my battles."

    Anyway, this was a solid issue and set up some intriguing things for both Emma and the rest of the X-Men. And again, I appreciate how Duggan wrote Jean and Emma in this. It would be great if he uses this event to flesh out their relationship and maybe even solidify a friendship. I can envision Duggan using Jean to help Emma in some way by the end of this arc.



    Last edited by Mercury; 01-20-2022 at 07:57 AM.
    Jean Grey in the words of Walt Whitman, from his masterpiece Leaves of Grass, "Song of Myself" (51 and 52):

    "Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)"

    "Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged, Missing me one place search another, I stop somewhere waiting for you."

  6. #21
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Also, I loved this moment between Jean and Emma. It was a small but telling exchange.

    Jean Grey in the words of Walt Whitman, from his masterpiece Leaves of Grass, "Song of Myself" (51 and 52):

    "Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)"

    "Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged, Missing me one place search another, I stop somewhere waiting for you."

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tank View Post
    Agree she was way too passive. Someone please find Jeanís spine. Morrisonís Jean wouldnt have tolerated Fisk like current care bear Jean.
    Maybe Jean just doesn't want to clean up Emma's mess...made your bed ,lie in it type deal.

  8. #23
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    Maybe Jean just doesn't want to clean up Emma's mess...made your bed ,lie in it type deal.
    Personally, I don't think Jean was even thinking about Emma in that scene. It's clear to me that getting into a brawl with the Mayor's law enforcement team in the middle of New York City would be a pretty foolish thing to do and certainly something of which Kingpin would take full advantage. This seems especially clear when considering the fact that the team arrived and set up headquarters there not too long ago and made it a point of assuring the world that they were there to both defend ordinary citizens and represent Krakoa.

    Furthermore, based on their brief but telling exchange, I don't believe there is any animosity between Jean and Emma. In fact, Duggan may start depicting them on more friendly terms, though the very end of X-Men #7 does prompt some questions. In either case, I can see Duggan making Jean help Emma in some way during this miniseries. At least, that's what I hope happens. I think it would be good for the development of both characters as well as a way to tip the hate to Morrison's run, in which Jean resurrected Emma. We'll see.
    Jean Grey in the words of Walt Whitman, from his masterpiece Leaves of Grass, "Song of Myself" (51 and 52):

    "Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)"

    "Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged, Missing me one place search another, I stop somewhere waiting for you."

  9. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    Personally, I don't think Jean was even thinking about Emma in that scene. It's clear to me that getting into a brawl with the Mayor's law enforcement team in the middle of New York City would be a pretty foolish thing to do and certainly something of which Kingpin would take full advantage. This seems especially clear when considering the fact that the team arrived and set up headquarters there not too long ago and made it a point of assuring the world that they were there to both defend ordinary citizens and represent Krakoa.

    Furthermore, based on their brief but telling exchange, I don't believe there is any animosity between Jean and Emma. In fact, Duggan may start depicting them on more friendly terms, though the very end of X-Men #7 does prompt some questions. In either case, I can see Duggan making Jean help Emma in some way during this miniseries. At least, that's what I hope happens. I think it would be good for the development of both characters as well as a way to tip the hate to Morrison's run, in which Jean resurrected Emma. We'll see.
    Between Emma and Jean there is agreement about Krakoa and humanity. That they can coexist, what I don't think they probably agree on is all the tactics to make them coexist. For Jean its about working honorably and directly with the humans. For Emma its about working less then honorably with the humans.

    In terms of Lorna so far she has taken up the old Hebrew concept of an, "Eye for eye, tooth for tooth; as he has caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done back to himĒ Leviticus 24:20. But, beyond that its unclear what she believes about the current status quo.

  10. #25
    @HotChillAllure PolarIceFire's Avatar
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    This was a solid, opening issue, with a compelling set-up. And as I have come to expect and look forward to a lot, from Duggan, it had a generous sprinkling of good character moments. Like this one, for Lorna.



    Which brought back memories of:



    AvX!!

    I really like when she lets loose with her play to win and take no prisoners Polaris attitude. She's just got to learn to keep herself in check better, as that bravado keeps coming back to bite her in the booty.

    But I really enjoyed it overall, especially seeing the new X-team outside of their own book, intermingling with each other and the greater MU at large. I haven't had a chance to read their one-shot DoDS tie-in yet, or even XLoW, but hope mutants branching out beyond the confines and concerns of Krakoa continues to grow and take permanent root. Which brings me to the highlighting of this panel, in particular, for the way it's worded.



    Because I think it's a significant development, that could prove to be both a cornerstone and a wellspring in the not-too-distant future, for much of Mutantdom's future stories.
    Last edited by PolarIceFire; 01-20-2022 at 11:03 AM.

  11. #26
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    Between Emma and Jean there is agreement about Krakoa and humanity. That they can coexist, what I don't think they probably agree on is all the tactics to make them coexist. For Jean its about working honorably and directly with the humans. For Emma its about working less then honorably with the humans.

    In terms of Lorna so far she has taken up the old Hebrew concept of an, "Eye for eye, tooth for tooth; as he has caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done back to him” Leviticus 24:20. But, beyond that its unclear what she believes about the current status quo.
    I can agree with this. However, do you really think, as you implied in the op, that Jean really meant to pay Kingpin his "due" respect as Mayor of New York City?


    EDIT: It's also good to point out that, based on her actions, even Emma thought it was unnecessary to go fight Kingpin's law enforcement, though she did take other measures, lol.
    Jean Grey in the words of Walt Whitman, from his masterpiece Leaves of Grass, "Song of Myself" (51 and 52):

    "Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)"

    "Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged, Missing me one place search another, I stop somewhere waiting for you."

  12. #27
    Mighty Member DarkMagnus's Avatar
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    I Think Emma and Jean get over it.

    I Mean if you see Marvel love affairs history. they arent in a war like SpiderWoman and Mockingbird for Hawkeye .

    Maybe MAYBE they are building their "Friendship" Think this. Emma is a scapel and Jean is a maze.

    Those two making a psychic interrogation or process will be pure gold.

    Loved the issue. 80īs Disco henchmen Emma is a very good Emma.

  13. #28
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Leah Williams' opinion that Emma is a scalpel and Jean is a sledgehammer, which is where this misconception began, doesn't hold any weight with me. As far as I am concerned, it's quite simple: Jean can do everything Emma can and, though there are things Jean may need Emma's help for--which, by the way, Emma could also not do alone, i.e., if the situation were reversed, she would need Jean's help--there are also things Jean can do that Emma can't.

    This may be a controversial statement but it is based on what is canon. In the past, Jean was stated to be both second only to Xavier and the most powerful telepath on the planet. Currently, she has been referred to as "surpassing" Xavier. The only other person that could, in theory, reach her level and surpass her, albeit temporarily (remember, Omega Level mutants have infinite room and power reserves with which to grow), is Quentin Quire, and he still takes lessons from her.

    That being said, I would be genuinely interested in seeing Jean and Emma develop an actual friendship that transcends snark and respect. They have a very long history together that could inform a moving and compelling story centered on just them.
    Jean Grey in the words of Walt Whitman, from his masterpiece Leaves of Grass, "Song of Myself" (51 and 52):

    "Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)"

    "Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged, Missing me one place search another, I stop somewhere waiting for you."

  14. #29

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    Just cross-posting this here.

    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    I finally read Devil's Reign today, and it was good. In line with what I've hoped to see with depiction of Lorna. I think Duggan's doing well with her.

    Like jmc said, I believe this story did a good job of demonstrating the differing approaches between Emma, Jean, and Lorna, and provides an excellent setup for how the three of them could operate together. Here's my impressions based on these depictions. Jean is a good will diplomatic type, someone who prefers restraint and cooperation, whose use of her powers in these situations would be more for getting useful information toward that end than anything else. Emma is a cunning back deal political type, who would be willing to exploit her powers to get what she wants even if it crosses lines. And Lorna, in these situations, can play it cool and playful but if push comes to shove she's ready to tear everything down to take what she wants even if she burns some bridges.

    Out of this, we see some initial conflict and hiccups in their philosophies though they don't come to blows over it. None of the three really know what the other two are thinking and planning. Jean just wanted Lorna to stall for time. Lorna, left with an impression nothing was happening and faced with a conflict, was ready to act on her own to end it, only for Jean to come in and restrain Lorna from doing something Jean wouldn't have agreed with. Jean, not knowing what Emma was doing, was ready to move operations out of New York (which is what Fisk wanted) to save their image in the diplomatic sphere and avoid conflict with Fisk despite him being a villain. She was stopped from that course by Emma showing up, revealing she managed to cunning their way into the X-Men staying by overruling Fisk with the United Nations.

    We didn't get as much panel time with Lorna, but what we did get, I think did a great job of demonstrating where Lorna can fit with Jean and Emma where they all get respectful use and different points of view that don't overlap with each other. Each of these philosophies isn't inherently bad or good. They're just better in some situations than others, especially depending on your goals.
    I can also be reached on Twitter and WordPress. Avatar by kahlart.

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  15. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    Just cross-posting this here.

    I finally read Devil's Reign today, and it was good. In line with what I've hoped to see with depiction of Lorna. I think Duggan's doing well with her.

    Like jmc said, I believe this story did a good job of demonstrating the differing approaches between Emma, Jean, and Lorna, and provides an excellent setup for how the three of them could operate together. Here's my impressions based on these depictions. Jean is a good will diplomatic type, someone who prefers restraint and cooperation, whose use of her powers in these situations would be more for getting useful information toward that end than anything else. Emma is a cunning back deal political type, who would be willing to exploit her powers to get what she wants even if it crosses lines. And Lorna, in these situations, can play it cool and playful but if push comes to shove she's ready to tear everything down to take what she wants even if she burns some bridges.

    Out of this, we see some initial conflict and hiccups in their philosophies though they don't come to blows over it. None of the three really know what the other two are thinking and planning. Jean just wanted Lorna to stall for time. Lorna, left with an impression nothing was happening and faced with a conflict, was ready to act on her own to end it, only for Jean to come in and restrain Lorna from doing something Jean wouldn't have agreed with. Jean, not knowing what Emma was doing, was ready to move operations out of New York (which is what Fisk wanted) to save their image in the diplomatic sphere and avoid conflict with Fisk despite him being a villain. She was stopped from that course by Emma showing up, revealing she managed to cunning their way into the X-Men staying by overruling Fisk with the United Nations.

    We didn't get as much panel time with Lorna, but what we did get, I think did a great job of demonstrating where Lorna can fit with Jean and Emma where they all get respectful use and different points of view that don't overlap with each other. Each of these philosophies isn't inherently bad or good. They're just better in some situations than others, especially depending on your goals.
    That is a very good way to highlight the distinct nature of their different ideologies they bring to the table here. All of them come off understandable from their own vantage point.

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