PeterMJ Break up AGAIN

[RJT]

That’s not precisely true, according to Peter David in an article originally published in 1998. It was Stan Lee’s idea, and Stan was writing the newspaper comic strip, which technically makes the marriage a writer-driven idea.

“Stan became enamored of the notion of Peter getting married both in the comic and in the comic strip, and more or less steamrolled it through by going public with it before any of the powers-that-be could talk him out of it. Me, I thought it was a nifty idea, but no one ever accused me of being excessively smart.”

Stan Lee was also an editor and publisher.
Also, Joe Quesada wrote “One More Day,” making that a “writer-driven idea.”

[Bruce Wayne]

That's completely different. Stan Lee was also one of the creators of Spider-Man who was on the book even after Ditko left.

[TinkerSpider]

Stan Lee was also an editor and publisher.
Also, Joe Quesada wrote “One More Day,” making that a “writer-driven idea.”

You misspelled J. Michael Straczynski.

Lee had no editorial control over Marvel comics at the time; that was Shooter. Lee, however, was the writer of the comic strip. If Shooter didn’t okay Lee’s idea, wouldn’t have happened in the comic books.

Quesada was not a writer on a Spider-Man property. Quesada told JMS what to write, and when he didn’t like JMS’s interpretation of the idea (turning back the clock to the Coffee Bean days) Quesada jumped in.

Two completely different situations that are not analogous.

[Lukmendes]

Stan Lee was also an editor and publisher.

He wasn't an editor back when the marriage was happening.

Also, Joe Quesada wrote “One More Day,” making that a “writer-driven idea.”

He forced his will into ASM when another writer was writing it, it's not unlike how Jim Shooter had Secret Wars II invade every comic, to everyone's annoyance (Though I don't think he suddenly started writing anyone else's comic).

Regardless, Stan Lee had the idea and was doing it in some random newspaper, and Marvel thought that was a cool gimmick and decided to make it happen in 616, even if the idea itself is from Stan Lee, he wasn't writing ASM at the time, editorial was telling everyone else to do it.

So yeah, marriage was ironically mandated and wasn't even anything more than a gimmick, it's okay to accept that, doesn't mean the marriage as a whole was a bad thing just because it was mandated.

[Vortex85]

“Stan became enamored of the notion of Peter getting married both in the comic and in the comic strip, and more or less steamrolled it through by going public with it before any of the powers-that-be could talk him out of it. Me, I thought it was a nifty idea, but no one ever accused me of being excessively smart.”

This is why Stan Lee, the creator of Spider-Man is the GOAT, he knew what he is doing with the character.

[Kevinroc]

This is why Stan Lee, the creator of Spider-Man is the GOAT, he knew what he is doing with the character.

Peter was one of Stan's avatars.

(Ironically, J. Jonah Jameson was also Stan's avatar.)

[Orbus]

This is why Stan Lee, the creator of Spider-Man is the GOAT, he knew what he is doing with the character.

If it was up to Stan The Night Gwen Stacy died never would have happened. Thus one of the greatest Spider-Man stories and one of the most important stories in the medium of comics would never have happened. It's also very likely Peter would have married Mary Jane so fans of the marriage should be wary of boosting up Stan.

[Mister Mets]

If Marvel remembered Jill Stacy existed, they'd probably build her Earth-65 counterpart up as a Spider-Gwen supporting character.

It is oddly telling that hasn't happened.

[Vortex85]

If it was up to Stan The Night Gwen Stacy died never would have happened. Thus one of the greatest Spider-Man stories and one of the most important stories in the medium of comics would never have happened. It's also very likely Peter would have married Mary Jane so fans of the marriage should be wary of boosting up Stan.

I disagree, Conway and Romita literally called him he ok'd her death and then played dumb after when there was backlash. He knew what he was doing but Conway was willing to take the heat so Stan pointed the finger. In later interviews he would say he didn't know Conway was actually going to kill her, but Conway said otherwise, and Stan never had a problem with the fact Gwen didn't return permanently but only as a clone to quiet fans. Stan Lee was the one who married Peter and MJ specifically in his comic strip and is the only reason they married in the comics. So it's not like he was a Gwen shipper after her death. He admitted in later interviews that MJ was always the better love interest.

[Lee]

Yep, that and Michelinie himself came around on the marriage after writing it a bit after initially just doing it because he was told. Then JMS said he loved writing them as married and was bummed with the mandate to end the marriage. We know Fraction was pro-marriage. Conway supported it even though he didn't know if he felt they should be and even wrote parallel lives which shows them as married and destined to be that way. He is the biggest Peter/MJ shipper of all.

Conway thinks that Peter as a married adult is a bad idea.

https://www.scifinow.co.uk/interview...way-interview/

Do you think that made it more difficult to develop Peter as a character because he has to be a certain age the whole time – he can’t mature in quite the same way as other characters?

Well, I’m of the school that believes it’s not necessary to develop a character beyond the individual story. Let me put this into context. The pressure to take Peter Parker, for example, and age him and develop his life led us into the marriage with Mary Jane growing into his early 30s and into a dead end, as a character, to the point where they had to wipe it all out and start over. That was a response to the need of the fans who wanted to continue reading the character, to make that character relevant to their lives as they got older – but that’s not the character! The character is an 18-20 year-old or 17-20 year old teenager, in the same way that Sherlock Holmes basically exists in 1887, and any story that takes place with him in 1914, which Arthur Conan Doyle tried to do, don’t really feel like the real Sherlock Holmes.

It’s not so much that Peter is a character in his era, he’s a character in his life era. He is a teenager. His problems as Spider-Man are teenager problems. Once he develops past that point, he ceases to be the same character. Why would you want to do that? If you want to write a different character, write a different character! If you, as a reader, don’t want to read about a teenage Spider-Man, read some other character who’s of an age more appropriate to your concerns. We wouldn’t want to go back and age Christopher Robin – why would we want to read stories about Christopher Robin in his 30s? It’s this bizarre relationship that fans have with the heroes of their childhood, that they want to them to age with them and develop with them. The big flaw that I think the superhero comic business fell into in the Eighties and Nineties was following that impulse, and taking characters to the next stage of their life stories and in effect, creating new characters that may not have been as popular or iconic as characters that they replaced.

The married Peter Parker is a much less interesting character than the teenaged Peter Parker, and that’s what we’ve seen – the field has taught us that.

[Vortex85]

Conway thinks that Peter as a married adult is a bad idea.

https://www.scifinow.co.uk/interview...way-interview/

Hm, hadn't seen that on Conway guess I was wrong to include him in the list. It’s odd because he has written Spider-Man in Spectacular Spider-Man great during his marriage and I thought he was cool with it taking Renew Tour Vows, but maybe cuz it was alt reality. He seems to have some really old school opinions though, like he was complaining about Doc Ock’s white suit on Beyond the other day on his twitter saying he should only wear green, LOL.

It's also odd that he caps Peter at teenager or 20 but then goes on to talk about his love life and coworkers which really work better mid-20s imo, nothing wrong with him being mid-20s.

[SavageJudgeDredd]

Here's hoping indeed this is just a dramatic story beat, and they'll remain together in the long run. That said, I'm still behind anyway, so I'll probably wait to see the good word on here for if/when that happens. I've gotta read that Spencer run.

[Spider-Tiger]

Hm, hadn't seen that on Conway guess I was wrong to include him in the list. It’s odd because he has written Spider-Man in Spectacular Spider-Man great during his marriage and I thought he was cool with it taking Renew Tour Vows, but maybe cuz it was alt reality. He seems to have some really old school opinions though, like he was complaining about Doc Ock’s white suit on Beyond the other day on his twitter saying he should only wear green, LOL.

It's also odd that he caps Peter at teenager or 20 but then goes on to talk about his love life and coworkers which really work better mid-20s imo, nothing wrong with him being mid-20s.

The irony of Conway's comments is that he, perhaps more than any other writer on the book (except for maybe Stan Lee himself) did quite a bit to move the story forward and propel Peter and his supporting cast into adulthood.

Also what 17-20 meant in the 1970s would probably be 25 today at best (maybe even pushing 30 lol)

[Frontier]

I mean, we keep debating authorial intent but I think at the end of the day what's important is what's put on the page. Like how Roger Stern, even as someone who didn't think MJ was right for Peter or like the marriage, wrote the marriage well during Hobgoblin Lives and actually put in the work to set up more of MJ's character development that did end up making her a good fit for Peter.

[Lee]

Hm, hadn't seen that on Conway guess I was wrong to include him in the list. It’s odd because he has written Spider-Man in Spectacular Spider-Man great during his marriage and I thought he was cool with it taking Renew Tour Vows, but maybe cuz it was alt reality.

Gerry Conway is a professional, he wrote what he was assigned to write, within the parameters of the continuity of the time. As a freelance writer on Spectacular Spider-Man he didn't have the authority to un-marry Peter. Just as no Spider-Man writer since 2008 has had the authority to re-marry Peter.