PeterMJ Break up AGAIN

[IamnotJudasTraveller]

IMO, Marvel's poking the hornet's nest again (maybe they're having withdrawal or something). Riling fans up is still their to-go strategy (what with Beyond's "Is Peter going to DIE, true believers?!" deal), and also on Beyond we saw how far solicits or covers can go from the actual issue. One way or another, I'd expect it to be an arc-long thing affair if that much.

Of course, I can also be soundly mistaken!

[PCN24454]

So I'm Pro-Marriage but at this point, I'm also not a masochist. lol

What was it that MJ said in No Way Home? "Expect the worst and you can't be disappointed." Marvel seems perfectly fine at committing to them being the endgame in AU stories and even adaptations but they've clearly dug in their heels in the mainline comic and frankly I just can't care anymore.

Oh please, you can always be disappointed. Even when something unambiguously good happens.

[RJT]

Regardless...

I think it’s pretty clear from my post that I know Mary Jane was part of the story. But it’s pretty obvious they weren’t married when the story was drawn. And pro-marriage folks will always cite KLH as a story that shows how important the marriage is.

[Lukmendes]

I liked them in Ultimate Spider-Man, TAS, MCU, the video games,…but I’ve never really been impressed by the mainline interpretation.

The video games? She's at her worst in a lot of those, with the PSX Spidey game in particular having her be little more than a damsel in distress lol.

What I remember of 90's cartoon had her being really, meh, or an idiot, like when she decided to jump out of a building after Spidey asked her to marry him.

Can´t wait for the introduction of Madelyn Stacy, Gwen Stacy´s super secret twin sister who was separated at birth who´s going to be Peter´s new love interest. The House of Ideas, everyone!

Oh great, Jill Stacy 2.0.

Or maybe by that name, Madelyn Stacy is secretly spoilers:

Madelyne Pryor, who decided to torment Spider-Man because Queen Goblin stole codenamename

end of spoilers

I guess I'm not surprised knowing Wells was in the Brain Trust, was one of the big BND writers, and doesn't seem to write MJ that well.

It's still disappointing and will probably come off super contrived, especially after Spencer's run, but there's nothing I can do about it other than voting with my dollar.

Any bets that Wells will try to throw in the umpteenth new love interest who will probably fade into limbo after the run is finished?

So that means we can have the best Spidey love interest returning: Michelle Gonzales.

.

Is this going to play into MJ wearing a Spider-Suit that Timeless teased?

Yeah what's up with that? If that's MJ wearing the costume, it'd be weird for her to do that when there's possibly relationship issues lol.

Then again, it could be happening in something else, like the MJ/Felicia one shot.

But au t May is mad at Peter

Maybe she's mad because he's moving back .

EDIT: Sorry I get triggered whenever people say that Kraven is good character.

Triggered? Really? I mean I think Kraven is wack and that KLH isn't as good as people like to say, but getting triggered over that is questionable.

I agree. I will say that their relationship was tolerable under Jim Salicrup’s editorship, but once Danny Fingeroth came back on board, outside of maybe the DeMatteis/Buscema Spectacular run, it was terrible. Mary Jane was constantly complaining that Peter was Spider-Man, and when she wasn’t doing that she was developing a smoking habit that became a major storyline in the books (they even had blurbs about it on the cover.) The post-clone saga era had her going to school for psychology and being jealous of Jill Stacy. Then she made Peter quit being Spider-Man and he had to run around and hide his superheroing from her until she perished in a plane crash.
I think a lot of the marriage love is rose colored nostalgia and/or conflating her character with the Mary character in the Ultimate book

It definitely had its downs, but it's worth considering how much the downs were MJ being poorly written to make the marriage look bad because Marvel higher ups were throwing a tantrum.

Not that it means the downs aren't there, they are, but when writters are intentionally changing personalities to make something worse than it really is, then it gets weird, specially considering how you can use stuff like Clone Saga and BND to say that Peter is a terrible hero and a bad person.

So I'm Pro-Marriage but at this point, I'm also not a masochist. lol

What was it that MJ said in No Way Home? "Expect the worst and you can't be disappointed." Marvel seems perfectly fine at committing to them being the endgame in AU stories and even adaptations but they've clearly dug in their heels in the mainline comic and frankly I just can't care anymore.

Even then, Spidey Home 3 is made in a way that if they want, the next movies can not use her at all too.

IMO, Marvel's poking the hornet's nest again (maybe they're having withdrawal or something). Riling fans up is still their to-go strategy (what with Beyond's "Is Peter going to DIE, true believers?!" deal), and also on Beyond we saw how far solicits or covers can go from the actual issue. One way or another, I'd expect it to be an arc-long thing affair if that much.

Of course, I can also be soundly mistaken!

Zeb Wells being around makes this harder to predict either way lol.

I'll expect the worst anyways, worst being "Ultimate Blob shows up outta nowhere and eats MJ" or somethin' like that, if they manage to be even worse than this, be like Tom King when he made Heroes in Crisis, which I legit thought it would be only as bad as Identity Crisis, not worse, then I'll be impressed and surprised, even though I'm keeping that possibility in mind too lol.

[Vortex85]

I think it’s pretty clear from my post that I know Mary Jane was part of the story. But it’s pretty obvious they weren’t married when the story was drawn. And pro-marriage folks will always cite KLH as a story that shows how important the marriage is.

You could take out KLH and there would be 100s of issues that show that, so no need to require that as part of it. I think the emotional pull of them being recently married and having 2 weeks stolen from them enhanced and made it better in a more tragic and serious nature. Happy accident if they weren't married when it was drawn at first.

Although

- It was certainly known they would be in a relationship because of the scenes with them being intimate without them being in a relationship prior to the marriage so what is the explanation for that?



- Also, what is the explanation of MJ alone in apartment with all her boxes suggesting she just moved in?



Lots of panels don't make sense unless they are living or planning to live together and in a serious relationship at the time.

[Sr. Bungle]

Oh great, Jill Stacy 2.0.

Why not the original Jill? I wouldn't mind

Michelle Gonzalez too

[bob.schoonover]

Or maybe by that name, Madelyn Stacy is secretly spoilers:

Madelyne Pryor, who decided to torment Spider-Man because Queen Goblin stole codenamename

end of spoilers

spoilers:

This would honestly be a great gag. Maybe it can result in some sort of Cable/Mayday Parker team up, too.

end of spoilers

Yeah what's up with that? If that's MJ wearing the costume, it'd be weird for her to do that when there's possibly relationship issues lol.

I have no idea where any of these little teaser hints are going (or how many of them are proper teasers vs just throwing stuff at the wall), but I figure it's gotta be at least somewhat likely that that is MJ from an alternate reality (like Aaron's recent Heroes Reborn reality) and has nothing to do with ASM proper. But if it does have to do with ASM, the caption says something about fallen heroes, so it'll be a little while before we get to that (at least past Wells and Romita's first arc).

[RJT]

It definitely had its downs, but it's worth considering how much the downs were MJ being poorly written to make the marriage look bad because Marvel higher ups were throwing a tantrum.

Not that it means the downs aren't there, they are, but when writters are intentionally changing personalities to make something worse than it really is, then it gets weird, specially considering how you can use stuff like Clone Saga and BND to say that Peter is a terrible hero and a bad person.

This really flies in the face of the documented evidence, which is that the marriage was an *editorial fiat* from Jim Shooter that no Spider-Man writer was in favor of at the time. There’s a book of interviews with Spider-Man creators and they are almost to a one vocal in how much they thought the marriage was a mistake. (only JM DeMatteis seems to have warmed to the idea.) Tom DeFalco and Ron Frenz who were the creative team on Amazing had plans for Peter and MJ to get engaged and for MJ to leave him at the altar. According to Sean Howe’s book Shooter has to plot the annual and novice Paul Ryan had to draw it because other creators kept turning it down. So it’s funny that people get all up in arms about editorial mandates and Peter and Mary Jane being written out of character because without those two things the wedding wouldn’t have happened at all.

[Kevinroc]

This really flies in the face of the documented evidence, which is that the marriage was an *editorial fiat* from Jim Shooter that no Spider-Man writer was in favor of at the time. There’s a book of interviews with Spider-Man creators and they are almost to a one vocal in how much they thought the marriage was a mistake. (only JM DeMatteis seems to have warmed to the idea.) Tom DeFalco and Ron Frenz who were the creative team on Amazing had plans for Peter and MJ to get engaged and for MJ to leave him at the altar. According to Sean Howe’s book Shooter has to plot the annual and novice Paul Ryan had to draw it because other creators kept turning it down. So it’s funny that people get all up in arms about editorial mandates and Peter and Mary Jane being written out of character because without those two things the wedding wouldn’t have happened at all.

And many of these same people were mad that Peter graduated from High School. What's your point?

[Kevinroc]

Spider-Man is 60 years old and MJ is THE iconic love interest of the franchise. Whether you think she should have this position or not is a different discussion.

I'm not expecting them to ever get married again in the "main" universe, but I fully expect them to continue breaking up and getting back together over and over until Marvel stops publishing comics.

[TinkerSpider]

Thank you for name dropping the most overrated Spider-Man story ever with his most underwhelming villain ever.

EDIT: Sorry I get triggered whenever people say that Kraven is good character.

Apologies for triggering you despite saying nothing whatsoever about Kraven as a character. The story, however, is considered by an overwhelming majority to be masterpiece of writing craft. So sorry you're not one of them.

[TinkerSpider]

This really flies in the face of the documented evidence, which is that the marriage was an *editorial fiat* from Jim Shooter that no Spider-Man writer was in favor of at the time. There’s a book of interviews with Spider-Man creators and they are almost to a one vocal in how much they thought the marriage was a mistake. (only JM DeMatteis seems to have warmed to the idea.) Tom DeFalco and Ron Frenz who were the creative team on Amazing had plans for Peter and MJ to get engaged and for MJ to leave him at the altar. According to Sean Howe’s book Shooter has to plot the annual and novice Paul Ryan had to draw it because other creators kept turning it down. So it’s funny that people get all up in arms about editorial mandates and Peter and Mary Jane being written out of character because without those two things the wedding wouldn’t have happened at all.

You left out Stan Lee, who wanted to marry Peter and MJ for the daily newspaper strip, which is how Shooter got the idea in the first place.

I do find it ironic the editorial staff still seems to believe, "Oh noes we can't have a married Spider-Man-- or even one in a committed relationship-- won't someone think of the children!!!!" and yet give the book to a writer best known for a story in which a child begs for his life before his father rips him apart and eats him.

[Sr. Bungle]

"What did Peter do?" indeed

[Sr. Bungle]

Spider-Man is 60 years old and MJ is THE iconic love interest of the franchise. Whether you think she should have this position or not is a different discussion.

I'm not expecting them to ever get married again in the "main" universe, but I fully expect them to continue breaking up and getting back together over and over until Marvel stops publishing comics.

This, they're going to break up a lot in the next decades. Also they're gong to reconcile as many times

[phonogram12]

Isn’t that his most endearing quality: being an everyman? Everyone knows that being an every man means untold suffering and being jerked around by everyone else in your life.

You can still be an every man and be married. The two really aren't mutually exclusive. A perfectly faultless interesting character with a carefree life, though? Pretty much impossible.

You're an idiot and dont know what you are talking about

*whistling innocently*