The 2010s have replaced the 1990s as the worst period for Marvel Comics?

[shooshoomanjoe]

I can't stand the "Manga is outselling comics" talking head point. It implies that in order for one to succeed the other has to fail, as if there is a finite audience that's incapable of just reading both.

Right? The Garfield Books sell more than the bible but the Garfield comics that were published by Boom didn't sell that much. They all target a different audience
.

[Anthony W]

I can't stand the "Manga is outselling comics" talking head point. It implies that in order for one to succeed the other has to fail, as if there is a finite audience that's incapable of just reading both.

So you feel that superhero comics are not in competition with shounen manga? Not a trap question, just curious about your thoughts on this.

[Baron of Faltine]

I can't stand the "Manga is outselling comics" talking head point. It implies that in order for one to succeed the other has to fail, as if there is a finite audience that's incapable of just reading both.

I think the issue is more the fact that the market has limited amount t of resources to out into their passions, and with more offer one have to choose, like it or not. Usually if you like both comics and manga you reach a balance( I personally buy comic trades and 3-4 manga series, while following religiously shonen jump app for testing something new. And get angrybwhenn a promising new series get axed without if ir but) but still manga is dominating now, thank also to the boom of anime, who have kind of overtaken action animation, while Western animation is kind in a slump after a brief renaissance period.)

[Baron of Faltine]

So you feel that superhero comics are not in competition with shounen manga? Not a trap question, just curious about your thoughts on this.

They are in competition simply because the resources are limited and the offer is greater. And overall art in manga is...well is personal view...and mileage vary for sure...better. or at least you see the manga artist have more work ethics and are less lazy that some western artist(perhaps to a fault...fan had to beg manga artist to NOT self destroy or take some time to take care of their health. ).
Is just that fan have less resources(no kne of us is swimming in money) or time(what is it this "free time" you talk about) so yeah choice had to be made.

[Digifiend]

The 90s.....

We saw new characters like New Warriors,

That's 80s, they started in 1989. Also, like the Champions later, the majority of the team was in fact pre-existing characters. Nova had a solo in the 70s, Firestar of course was from the Amazing Friends cartoon and had already been used in the X books. Marvel Boy was from Ben Grimm's solo book, and Namorita of course is from Sub-Mariner. I think only Night Thrasher and Silhouette were actually new.

[Mike_Murdock]

Ugh, I was so hungry for a Hickman joke that I made a mistake so obvious that even a blind man could catch it....and one did! It's been changed....

1990s: X-titles are still good
2010s: Jubilee is a vampire and the original X-Men are back from the past...wait what?

Honestly, given the IvX stuff, it seemed there was an obvious pre-Hickman X-Men joke to use for the 2010s. The X-Men were not in a great state overall. That being said, the 90s had the Legacy virus, the 2010s had the M-Pox (at least the late 2010s did). The 90s had longer editorial consistency, though. Good or bad, they stuck with it for a while. That doesn't mean story consistency - there were a lot of steps towards solving the Legacy virus in Excalibur and some other stories that literally went nowhere, for example.

Both had signs of a massively oversaturated market. Plenty of examples were posted above, but we also have random books like Blackwulf, for example. Experiments with new characters generally don't last as long. Marvel wanted Mosaic to last, for example, but I think it got eight issues. Thunderstrike managed to get 24 (although, fwiw, I kind of liked that story much more than what Roy Thomas was doing in Thor).

The main pushback I have is the art. 90s art gives me a headache. It's also just embarrassing sometimes. Design-wise, it has every cliché that stereotypes the genre thrown in the mix. Thinking about the last decade of comics, I thought the art has been pretty good.

[armlessphelan]

I think a lot of people think everyone was imitating Liefeld in the 90s, but honestly that wasn't true. Ron Lim was doing some amazing work and I'd argue that Michael Turner was the breakout star of the decade despite his art looking NOTHING like Liefeld. The main artistic difference between Marvel in the 90s and Marvel in the 10s is that Marvel hasn't had a house style in over a decade. Sometimes, you still get the roided out male superhero, but honestly the diversity in art has been refreshing.

[Solid Snake]

Last years of Axel Alonso era was Marvel at their all time worst, so many talented creators had left company. Since he is left or fired idk I feel things are going significantly better. Yet Cebulski is on the helm for like 4 years or so, which means 2010s was mostly Alonso. Thus I might agree with the thread.

[Brian B]

Last years of Axel Alonso era was Marvel at their all time worst, so many talented creators had left company. Since he is left or fired idk I feel things are going significantly better. Yet Cebulski is on the helm for like 4 years or so, which means 2010s was mostly Alonso. Thus I might agree with the thread.

Spider-Man’s Sins Past and One More Day stories were during Joe Q’s years as editor-in-chief. Alonso may not be the worst. Alonso’s issues are the same issues I have with C. B. Cebulski — no regard for continuity and canon. However, compared to those Spider-Man stories, Alonso’s and Cebulski’s work did not and has not seen anything quite as bad as those two Spidey stories. So, for me, the ‘00s were bad, not the ‘90s or ‘10s.

[Ready Eddie]

I mean, the company isn't so bankrupt that they're forced to sell movie rights just to survive, so no.

When your owned by a mega corporation that's kind of like a monopoly its hard to go bankrupt. Its the movies though that make the bread, not the comics still.

[Noodle]

So you feel that superhero comics are not in competition with shounen manga? Not a trap question, just curious about your thoughts on this.

Personally no, I don't. It's entirely possible to ready both. It's essentially just like a comic from another publisher. People aren't required to read, say, Marvel over DC, and most don't. Just like People can read a super hero book and a manga.

[Anthony W]

I think a lot of people think everyone was imitating Liefeld in the 90s, but honestly that wasn't true. Ron Lim was doing some amazing work and I'd argue that Michael Turner was the breakout star of the decade despite his art looking NOTHING like Liefeld. The main artistic difference between Marvel in the 90s and Marvel in the 10s is that Marvel hasn't had a house style in over a decade. Sometimes, you still get the roided out male superhero, but honestly the diversity in art has been refreshing.

It doesn't feel refreshing to me. To me the art feels...

Cheap, it's like a fill-in artist except the rules of the Star artist and fill-in artist have been reversed. In the 2010s it seems like it's the job of the Star artist to fill-in for a few issues at the start of the series until the real artist shows up.

Also, when I'm reading a comic I want to know I'm reading a comic and not storyboards there is a difference.

[Baron of Faltine]

It doesn't feel refreshing to me. To me the art feels...

Cheap, it's like a fill-in artist except the rules of the Star artist and fill-in artist have been reversed. In the 2010s it seems like it's the job of the Star artist to fill-in for a few issues at the start of the series until the real artist shows up.

Also, when I'm reading a comic I want to know I'm reading a comic and not storyboards there is a difference.

Hmm...YOU gave me food for thought....Indeed in addition tot he quality of individual artist, there is the artistic continuity..that for comics being a sSyncretism of art and writing could seriously influence the story and how it flows
<most banal exmaple lot of artist DO NOT know how to draw Beast...to the point they turned him in the most easy tod raw shape, a literally blue emoticon>

[Brian B]

I think a lot of people think everyone was imitating Liefeld in the 90s, but honestly that wasn't true. Ron Lim was doing some amazing work and I'd argue that Michael Turner was the breakout star of the decade despite his art looking NOTHING like Liefeld. The main artistic difference between Marvel in the 90s and Marvel in the 10s is that Marvel hasn't had a house style in over a decade. Sometimes, you still get the roided out male superhero, but honestly the diversity in art has been refreshing.

Michael Turner looks like Liefeld to me. Even Jim Lee does. It’s all that crazy cross hatching, it’s Liefeld’s signature style, along with pouches, pockets, crazy big guns, squinty eyes and tiny, TINY feet.

[skyvolt2000]

Right? The Garfield Books sell more than the bible but the Garfield comics that were published by Boom didn't sell that much. They all target a different audience
.

That Garfield book went 36 issues with 4 specials.

Peanuts went 32.

They can't target an audience if they are NOT sold in comic book stores. So you get two series that lasted a good 3 years being sold in the few stores that carried them.

Same with Regular Show, Steven Universe, Gumball, My Little Pony and Lumberjanes.

They are in competition simply because the resources are limited and the offer is greater.

Not really because I don't have to go to a comic book store to buy a manga. I can do that almost anywhere.

Marvel wanted Mosaic to last, for example, but I think it got eight issues.

Because certain folks took issue with him being Inhuman and HOW DARE Marvel try to do what so many seem to be screaming-"introduce a new character without taking someone else out".

Last years of Axel Alonso era was Marvel at their all time worst, so many talented creators had left company.

Well those creators wanted ownership of what they created.

Also we saw so much toxic backlash to so many new folks for just existing. Before books came out for some of them.

Gatekeepers at their WORST.