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  1. #121
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milici View Post
    But he still don't trust her and keep secrets from her and use her pupil against her. Couple goals!
    ororo beautifully vroke down why this isn't as black and white as you say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ororo101 View Post
    It’s interesting to me that people don’t seem to recognize the difference between honesty within the confines of a relationship and the need for confidentiality when it comes to affairs of state between two de facto leaders/representatives of nations/empires/peoples.

    Pretty sure Ororo doesn’t expect to know the ins and outs of Wakanda’s National security contingencies and T’challa doesn’t expect Ororo to whisper to him sweet nothings of Krakoa’s Quiet Council meetings and resurrection protocols before bed. Kind of an absurd idea to contemplate seeing as how both are so high profile and high risk, due to the nature of their identities and fields of work. Seeing as how either one of them could be mentally, magically, or biologically attacked at any moment, possibly exposing the weak points of not only two nations but an entire intergalactic empire as well. Do you expect them to call each other at the end of every day and spill the hot tea of the inner workings of their governance and security like giddy, love drunk high schoolers? Rogue and Remy can afford to do that. Scott and Jean probably as well. Unfortunately the high profiles of both Ororo and T’challa don’t allow them that luxury out of responsibility to their people and the security of their kingdoms.

    If you don’t like or appreciate them as a pairing that’s absolutely fine and you can just say that. But reducing the context of their massive individual profiles and responsibilities to “Well he omitted the truth from her! He’s a liar and can’t be trusted!!!” is not only daft but naÔve to boot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ororo101 View Post
    Gentle was a Wakandan citizen before Krakoa even existed. T’challa was one of the only people in his early life to treat him with kindness and respect, to the point where he even lived in the palace of Wakanda for a while under his protection. If T’challa asked him to be his eyes and ears on the newly burgeoning nation of Krakoa in regards to protecting Wakandan interests, I don’t think for a second he would refuse him. Especially when nothing has been stated to have been asked of him on T’challa’s behalf that would in any way endanger or compromise Krakoa/Arrako. Is it the nicest, most above board situation? Of course not and yes, I can see some part of Ororo feeling off about it but also as a head of state herself with responsibility to an entire planet and people, I think deep down, she’d be mature enough to understand the risks one must take to keep one’s people safe. An offensive action or plan to pursue an offensive action against a nation is treason. A betrayal of national secrets or confidential information is treason. Gentle has not been shown to have done anything of the sort as far as we know. And tbh do we really think he has access to the inner circle of Krakoa’s information circuit? Personally, I doubt that very much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ororo101 View Post
    Listen, there are definitely huge challenges to the progress and purity of their relationship. All of the reasons I highlighted, as you said, are prime examples of that. It’s entirely understandable to not think a sustainable relationship between these two is probable or even possible due to the nature of who they are and who they need to be to the people they represent.

    But to some people, the dynamic of seeing two people who have been important to each other since childhood, before they became the titans they are today fight against all odds to maintain their relationship is a romantic under-dog story you want to root for. Under the crowns, and thrones, and powers, and nations they are actually just two people who seem to love each other despite everything in their lives and everything they’ve become weighing against them. That’s not for everybody for sure and that’s okay! And for others, like myself, you can’t help but to root for them to be with the person I’m their lives who makes them the most happy, and loved, and seen. The entire universe seems to be against them and yet, they feel in their heart that the other is still worth fighting for. People need to understand that both perspectives are okay to have, and that it’s not necessary to tear down characters by calling them liars and snakes and “abusers” to justify your opinions on this. And yes, someone on Twitter tried to make the argument that T’challa “abused” Ororo and that’s why he’s not good for her *eyeroll*. We all can do a little better at letting people enjoy what they enjoy without being disparaging to other characters because something doesn’t fit your preferred narrative. That’s all I’m saying, personally.

    Also I love Diana and no, this situation could be be further from a comparison to Charles and Diana’s. In fact, they are directly opposite to each other. Charles and Diana were two people who were fundamentally not right for each other in the sense that they were a mismatch of massive proportions. They had absolutely nothing in common, no real love for each other, and no patience and understanding of who the other was at their core while at the same time being forced by institutions larger then themselves into the same station in life. Ororo and T’challa love each for who they are at their base, most pure selves and the circumstances of their stations in life and responsibilities are what keep them from being together as they would wish to be. The two examples couldn’t be more diametrically opposed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ororo101 View Post
    I see what you’re saying and mostly agree for sure but I think it would make Ororo hypocritical to ask for overt, complete honesty in regards to T’challa and Wakanda when Beast has been spying on every major nation on Earth, the resurrection protocols are still a massive state secret, and the inner workings of the Quiet Council she resides on are confidential as well. Ororo would be a fool not to see the irony in asking him to reveal everything to her when she herself, has her secrets that she keeps for the good of her people.
    Baby you killed it as usual!!! all of this is 100% accurate i just love you for it!! I had to remind a few folks earlier that xforce doing the exact same thing as tchalla only tchalla hasn't done anything actionable against the nations his agents were placed. the krakoans can't say the same.

    I also want to add if we are using the logic ororo can't be with tchalla due their high profile positions then frankly it wouldn't work with anyone as ororo would have to maintain some level of discretion with anyone she chose to entertain.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, THE REGENT OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  2. #122
    Astonishing Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    Not surprised really, Gentle was obviously the only one who could act as an agent for Wakanda among mutants, what i want to know is how none of the telepaths picked up on it. I mean as an agent he must be close by to hear anything that needs to relayed back to Wakanda.

  3. #123
    Marvel Girl Could Never! Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
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    Honestly, if we have to be stuck with lame-*ss Jott against natural storytelling, entertainment value, and all common sense, why should Storm and T'Challa be forever broken over...what again?

    Let that black power couple exist.
    Last edited by Kitty&Piotr<3; 01-26-2022 at 08:41 PM.
    #FreeSCEMMA

    "Yes, it was a kind of adultery, but at the same time Jean wasn't being his wife anymore. I just felt that the spark between them had died out and it was time to give Scott someone else."
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  4. #124
    Incredible Member Ororo101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    I actually do agree with you here. The problem though is it's still a potential landmine and one that wasn't really necessary unless the fuse was planned to be lit imho. I don't know which side of the equation will pull the trigger but the way i see it is someone could simply write ororo saying "all tchalla had to do was say it was a state secret." then we could at least be like "well he did say it was." instead he purposefully hid the very nature of it as not to cause any suspicion because he is far more practical where as when she was leaving she was all "i am off to do some regent business" making it clear what she was doing was apart from them. But i could be overthinking it. It's just one of those situations where neither is wrong and it didn't have to happen but now you have to think about why did it happen though.
    I feel you. In my opinion, Tíchallaís main issue has always been not what he chooses to do but how he chooses to go about it at times. His secrecy and hesitation to trust arenít so much a natural part of him but a part of him that was constantly reinforced and ingrained in him since he was a child due to the position he was destined to inherit later in life. Thatís been their main issue and I love that weíve seen him acknowledge how problematic that can be when youíre supposed to have an equal for a partner in life but a part of that will always be with. Itís one of his charactersí greatest strengths and also one of his biggest faults in my opinion. Ororo has her share of faults as well and they seem to love each other in spite of it. Heís not perfect but I think she will always know that 99% of the time he means well. Weíll see where this ride takes us though, but Iím personally pleased with how this issue portrayed both of them and their relationship.

    Quote Originally Posted by BPStorm2 View Post
    Yesss. Omolola said are you ever happy which he didn¬ít answer back, As you see later he¬ís at his happiest with storm ⛈.
    As soon as I re-read this and noticed his deviation from the conversation when asked that by Omolala, only to follow it up again later when talking to Ororo by bringing up unprovoked that she, is in fact what makes him happy? Thatís beautiful stuff. She really might be the only person alive who he is ever totally himself and at peace with. She knew the boy under the man under the king. She still does, just as he knew the girl under the woman under the Goddess. They see each other intimately at the very core of who they are and I just canít find it in me not to root for that against all (valid) odds.

    Quote Originally Posted by rcaguy View Post
    No. What you're going to get with Ororo and Tíchalla is yet another story on the six o'clock news about a husband or wife going nuts and killing everyone in the household including the kids along with themselves and how no one saw it coming.
    Oh alright. Interesting.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    I think the point is that they never actually changed, he was just faking it this whole time.
    or maybe it happened but he can still separate his experience and still perform his duty to his King
    "What you call Destiny is just an equation, a product of variables" - Uatu

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    Ohhh can't believe I've missed that. Thanks
    Taylor also expanded on it in his X-men Red run where Nehzno powers was fixed putting him at hulk levels. which is why when i first saw tchalla take an unmasked hit to the face it made me think dude durability must be insane, especially taking into account he did the manga fall back from the hit. Their closeness was also shown in X-men Worlds apart. So there are actually quite a few in canon moments on both sides of Gentle loyalty to tchalla. Though he is also very loyal and protective of Storm too.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.
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  7. #127
    Astonishing Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    Honestly, if we have to be stuck with lame-*ss Jott against natural storytelling, entertainment value, and all common sense, why should Storm and T'Challa be forever broken over...what again?

    Let that black power couple exist.
    I'm pretty sure people complain about Jott too. Isn't like half the point of the Krakoa era is to just quietly ignore love triangles and stuff?

  8. #128
    Ghost Panther Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    ororo beautifully vroke down why this isn't as black and white as you say.


    Baby you killed it as usual!!! all of this is 100% accurate i just love you for it!! I had to remind a few folks earlier that xforce doing the exact same thing as tchalla only tchalla hasn't done anything actionable against the nations his agents were placed. the krakoans can't say the same.

    I also want to add if we are using the logic ororo can't be with tchalla due their high profile positions then frankly it wouldn't work with anyone as ororo would have to maintain some level of discretion with anyone she chose to entertain.
    That's a valid point.

  9. #129
    Mighty Member Outburstz's Avatar
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    If the profiles of Black Panther and Storm is too much the only logical choice would be for Storm to end up with a fellow mutant. Since alot of you are worried about black love it would seem that you would have to raise up one of the black male mutants to court Storm.

    That way you won't over shadow Storm and they would have a similar mission statement all controlled by the X office.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outburstz View Post
    If the profiles of Black Panther and Storm is too much the only logical choice would be for Storm to end up with a fellow mutant. Since alot of you are worried about black love it would seem that you would have to raise up one of the black male mutants to court Storm.

    That way you won't over shadow Storm and they would have a similar mission statement all controlled by the X office.
    Honestly my only problems with Storm/T'challa was just because Hudlin's run in general wasn't that great for me for a variety of reasons and it dragged the okay and good stuff down for me. Other writers have done a decent job with it, I think it could work overall.

  11. #131
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outburstz View Post
    If the profiles of Black Panther and Storm is too much the only logical choice would be for Storm to end up with a fellow mutant. Since alot of you are worried about black love it would seem that you would have to raise up one of the black male mutants to court Storm.

    That way you won't over shadow Storm and they would have a similar mission statement all controlled by the X office.
    as I stated previously any relationship would be problematic for ororo due to her current status if we follow that logic. being with a mutant would suddenly remove the need for her to be judicious in revealing sensitive information to her partner simply because they are mutant? absolutely not.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, THE REGENT OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    as I stated previously any relationship would be problematic for ororo due to her current status if we follow that logic. being with a mutant would suddenly remove the need for her to be judicious in revealing sensitive information to her partner simply because they are mutant? absolutely not.
    This pretty much. It wouldn't be necessarily as bad for Krakoa specifically depending on the mutant in question, but need to know status isn't just determined by ethnic/national lines.

  13. #133
    Mighty Member Subliminally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    as I stated previously any relationship would be problematic for ororo due to her current status if we follow that logic. being with a mutant would suddenly remove the need for her to be judicious in revealing sensitive information to her partner simply because they are mutant? absolutely not.
    The only solution to this would be for her to form a romantic relationship with someone on the Council.
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  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subliminally View Post
    The only solution to this would be for her to form a romantic relationship with someone on the Council.
    #HireMeMarvel
    OMG you just became the devil on my shoulder. LMAO. could you imagine the reveal of a emma/Tchalla pairing. lol. omg that would piss off so many people. you just brought out my dark phoenix side. lol
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  15. #135
    Mighty Member Subliminally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    OMG you just became the devil on my shoulder. LMAO. could you imagine the reveal of a emma/Tchalla pairing. lol. omg that would piss off so many people. you just brought out my dark phoenix side. lol
    SIR!!! SIR!!!!!!! You trying to start world war 3?
    Through lightning and rain, break down the walls and unlock these chains!

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