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  1. #1
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    Default Luke vs Grogu's guardians

    Luke has finally had enough. He has just learned that it was Grogu that kept eating everyone's lunch out of the breakroom fridge at the Jedi academy. Now Luke is out for blood.

    After casually wading through the Dark Troopers and entering the control room containing Grogu and all his guardians, does Luke have enough left in the tank to put everyone in the room down?

  2. #2
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    Mando in full beskar had a lot of trouble with one Dark Trooper, Luke casually annihilated upwards of 20 I think? Everyone in that room dies really quickly.

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    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greatmetropolitan View Post
    Mando in full beskar had a lot of trouble with one Dark Trooper, Luke casually annihilated upwards of 20 I think? Everyone in that room dies really quickly.
    This - Luke slaughters them almost by accident.
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    Hmmm... I was thinking there was a good chance Luke isn't walking out of there. A room of at least 5 elite combatants (3 Mandos in full beskar, Fennec, Cara) and the Moff is likely no run-of-the-mill slouch and would join Team Defenders for this match.

    The Dark Troopers were little more than statues, nor did they use anything other than swarm tactics, nor did they appear to be any smarter than your basic Roomba.

    Luke isn't cutting through the beskar. Yes, I know there is a lot of area not covered by beskar, but every hit that Luke makes on beskar is a hit that does not remove an opponent from the battlefield and it is also a moment that he cannot protect himself from incoming blaster fire. Din has proven he can defend competently against saber strikes in his battle with Ahsoka.

    Heck even Grogu can contribute by giving Luke a force push or something. Granted, it wouldn't do much, but any distraction is a potential opening for the others to exploit.

    I love Luke as much as the next guy, and my heart wants him to win this 12/10, but my head says otherwise. I think there is too much skill and combat experience in that room. I think Luke takes this maybe 3/10.

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    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luncian View Post
    Hmmm... I was thinking there was a good chance Luke isn't walking out of there. A room of at least 5 elite combatants (3 Mandos in full beskar, Fennec, Cara) and the Moff is likely no run-of-the-mill slouch and would join Team Defenders for this match.

    The Dark Troopers were little more than statues, nor did they use anything other than swarm tactics, nor did they appear to be any smarter than your basic Roomba.

    Luke isn't cutting through the beskar. Yes, I know there is a lot of area not covered by beskar, but every hit that Luke makes on beskar is a hit that does not remove an opponent from the battlefield and it is also a moment that he cannot protect himself from incoming blaster fire. Din has proven he can defend competently against saber strikes in his battle with Ahsoka.

    Heck even Grogu can contribute by giving Luke a force push or something. Granted, it wouldn't do much, but any distraction is a potential opening for the others to exploit.

    I love Luke as much as the next guy, and my heart wants him to win this 12/10, but my head says otherwise. I think there is too much skill and combat experience in that room. I think Luke takes this maybe 3/10.
    Luke can use chokes, can use pushes, can use all kinds of nonsense the combattants in the room can't do a damn thing about. As well, Din is pretty much as good as any of the people in the room, and it took everything he had, plus some luck, to fight one of the Dark Troopers. One. The combattants in the room together knew, flat out knew, they were dead once the troopers entered the room. Then Luke came and casually, effortlessly killed all of them in a couple of moments. They are entirely screwed. Hits on Beskar won't work? Why would Luke, force-enabled and massively more skilled than any of them, waste hits on Beskar when he can just force choke all of them with a gesture? When he can just, you know, not hit the Beskar? This is too easy for him. He only loses if he slips, or maybe if he gets a call from Obi-Wan on the old Deadphone and ceases paying attention.
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    Luke should win largely because the Mandalorians don't have a very good answer to his TK and combat precog+reflexes to use that TK effectively, but Dark Troopers were practically custom made to be chaff before a Jedi while being almost unbeatable to anyone else, so that's not a fair comparison. They're tanks that melt under a light sabre with blasters and seemingly nothing else. He'll have a harder time with a few fully geared mandos than with that whole army of dark troopers.

    His TK is pretty much single target focused though, and they've got flamethrowers and those silly little back missiles. In fact I think there's a halfway decent chance they could take him out with explosives that they would survive in their armour. What Luke lacks is a way to take any of the fully armoured ones down instantly, which means this is a whole melee where he's having to deal with multiple opponents who are getting up, and HE has to keep moving and fighting to defend himself. This isn't the place for force choking for pretty much the same reason putting a choke hold on one guy while fighting a bunch of guys is a bad idea. In the fight leading up to that scene, the only time he actually paused to do focus his TK on one trooper was when that was the last trooper.
    Last edited by BitVyper; 01-22-2022 at 10:24 AM.
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    He could just repeatedly tk slam them into a big pile in a corner of the room over and over until all of their brains are turned to mush.

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    Like I said, all his TK feats are pretty much single target. I guess I'd buy it if they all stood bunched up together but... they're not doing that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Luke can use chokes, can use pushes, can use all kinds of nonsense the combattants in the room can't do a damn thing about. As well, Din is pretty much as good as any of the people in the room, and it took everything he had, plus some luck, to fight one of the Dark Troopers. One. The combattants in the room together knew, flat out knew, they were dead once the troopers entered the room. Then Luke came and casually, effortlessly killed all of them in a couple of moments. They are entirely screwed. Hits on Beskar won't work? Why would Luke, force-enabled and massively more skilled than any of them, waste hits on Beskar when he can just force choke all of them with a gesture? When he can just, you know, not hit the Beskar? This is too easy for him. He only loses if he slips, or maybe if he gets a call from Obi-Wan on the old Deadphone and ceases paying attention.
    Has it been demonstrated on screen that any Jedi can use area effect force chokes and such? (I'm seriously asking, all I've ever seen are the live action Star Wars.) To the best of my feeble old-man brain's recollection, it seems like force powers have been more single-target focused and when they are using active force powers they are no longer actively using the light saber in an offensive or defensive manner.

    Going through the Dark Troopers, Luke used no area effect force powers nor was he actively blocking incoming blaster fire while using force powers (again, as best I can recall. I'm old, so I reserve the right to be wrong here).

    Din struggled against the Dark Trooper because the Dark Trooper is blaster, fire, and punch proof, and is massively stronger. Luke is none of those things. If Din had the Dark Saber he would have disassembled the Trooper he fought in seconds.

    Again, I WANT Luke to win this, I just don't want to fanboy myself and give him the win just because I want him to. (And I am not accusing anyone thinking Luke wins this handily of fanboying.)

    I'm uncertain if those saying Luke wins this easily are saying that based on live action Luke/Jedi showings, or if you are incorporating all canon sources as to Luke's power/skill set. If one is drawing on their vast Star Wars knowledge to determine Luke easily wins this, would your opinion change if you had to decide the fight JUST based on live actor portrayals of Luke/Jedi?

  10. #10
    Friendship's Shockwave BitVyper's Avatar
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    He's got no easy solution to this fight; it's going to be drawn out with a lot of flipping around and throwing guys when he's got the chance or using whatever other advantages he can. I think he pretty solidly wins it, but it's like 8/10. He's the one who has to do the majority of the moving around where the mandos can be largely stationary, and he has to be moving constantly, so if anyone gets tired, it's going to be him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BitVyper View Post
    Like I said, all his TK feats are pretty much single target. I guess I'd buy it if they all stood bunched up together but... they're not doing that.
    Even padawans are capable of simple pushes and pulls across an area. Obi-Wan does it do some battle droids at the very beginning of Episode 1. Jedi Master Luke never really fights hordes of enemies outside of the Dark Troopers who he handled pretty effortlessly, so I don't think he does anything specifically targeting multiple opponents at the same time. He does move an X-Wing, which is probably as wide as the room they are in though, and he squishes the last Dark Trooper essentially with a collapsing circle. I would say it would be odd that a jedi master with proven high-end telekinesis can't pull off what a padawan can do.

  12. #12
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    I agree that this is a stomp in Luke's favour.

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    I give it a fifty-fifty either way. Both sides are fully capable of ending the other. It’s a closed room and has three people in various levels of Beskar, one of which has two lightsaber level weapons (Darksaber and Beskar spear).

    Whereas Luke has human durability. A single blaster can end him, where as he has to be very precise in killing three of the people in this room.

    I would say so long as Luke takes Din out first, he’ll win. If he doesn’t take him out right away, the group has a good chance taking Luke out from numbers:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luncian View Post
    Luke has finally had enough. He has just learned that it was Grogu that kept eating everyone's lunch out of the breakroom fridge at the Jedi academy. Now Luke is out for blood.

    After casually wading through the Dark Troopers and entering the control room containing Grogu and all his guardians, does Luke have enough left in the tank to put everyone in the room down?
    Yeah what everybody said. Luke walks through this.
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  15. #15
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    In RotJ, Luke force chokes two guards with a single casual gesture while entering Jabba's fortress. He can definitely focus TK on more than one thing at a time.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
    "Get off my lawn! ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops." - Sharpandpointies
    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan

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