Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 55
  1. #31
    Fantastic Member Mark Trail's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    497

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    It's not like Bruce and Barbara at all as Vicki was never in a position of power over Dick and never had any real contact with him in a mentorship role as he was growing up. That's not to say I think it's a good match, but her being older than Dick (who is of age now) isn't anywhere near as problematic as Bruce and Barbara.
    I know things have been rebooted and revamped, but in my era (and, therefore, in my head canon) Bruce and Babs were a lot closer in age (Babs was about 25, Bruce 30 and Dick only a teenager), Bruce had no mentorship role and, in fact, Barbara had originally been created for the TV show as a potential love interest for Bruce.

    So, the thing in "TKJ" cartoon, didn't bother me for THAT reason (in fact, Moore's original story was, of course, an outgrowth of the silver age continuity), just for every thing else.

  2. #32

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Hell, any good writer can make a reporter in any comic book city "interesting".
    As for making her "more of an optimist", I'm not sure how well that would work for an experienced reporter, especially when dealing with Gotham City.

    I think a role like that might work better for someone like Summer Gleeson.
    She can't be naive but she could be less cynical than Deb or Bruce. You need some variety in this cast otherwise it becomes too morose.
    Last edited by the illustrious mr. kenway; 01-25-2022 at 12:52 PM.

  3. #33
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    85,232

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    That was basically what they tried to do in Batman Eternal. Then they stole Jason Bard from her and gave him to Babs.
    Well, technically it was just bringing his character full circle since he was intended for Babs from the start.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Trail View Post
    I know things have been rebooted and revamped, but in my era (and, therefore, in my head canon) Bruce and Babs were a lot closer in age (Babs was about 25, Bruce 30 and Dick only a teenager), Bruce had no mentorship role and, in fact, Barbara had originally been created for the TV show as a potential love interest for Bruce.

    So, the thing in "TKJ" cartoon, didn't bother me for THAT reason (in fact, Moore's original story was, of course, an outgrowth of the silver age continuity), just for every thing else.
    It's not like the TKJ movie didn't basically make it screwed up for a whole host of other reasons...

  4. #34
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    12,461

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Well, technically it was just bringing his character full circle since he was intended for Babs from the start.
    He wasn't necessarily intended for Babs in Batman Eternal, though. And now, just as before, he's been dropped again. They shoulda just left him with Vicki!
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews, Stephanie Brown Discord

  5. #35
    Standing Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    16,781

    Default

    Back when Vicki Vale was first introduced, most female supporting characters that were not villains or super-heroes were the friend-girl to the hero. So in that way Vicki was like Lois, but so were a parade of other female characters. Vicki has been brought back many times since then and she broke free of that stereotype long ago.

    Barbara/Batgirl was considered to be a valid love interest for Bruce/Batman in her original appearances. Although the story where this comes forward most is in DETECTIVE COMICS 369 (November 1967)--"Batgirl Breaks Up the Dynamic Duo"--where we get the first pairing of Batgirl and Robin. That story ends with Catwoman (Selina Kyle) making her first new appearance in a Julie Schwartz edited comic--and that sets up the next story in BATMAN 197 (December 1967)--"Catwoman Sets Her Claws for Batman"--where the reason Catwoman comes out of retirement is because she's jealous of Batgirl for stealing her man.

    Jason Bard did first show up in Batgirl's DETECTIVE back-up feature. And his being a Vietnam vet was probably part of the whole relevance trend. When Barbara gave up being Batgirl and moved to Washington, D.C., to take a seat in Congress--Bard got the back-up feature from her. So she dropped him, but he got the feature. He might have had a longer run if Archie Goodwin hadn't become the new editor and installed Manhunter in his back-up spot.
    What the heart really wants is whiz-bang!

  6. #36
    Invincible Member MajorHoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    26,378

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    He wasn't necessarily intended for Babs in Batman Eternal, though.
    True.

    You have to go back to 1969 for the start of Jason and Barbara.

  7. #37

    Default

    -Make her more of photographer than a reporter. Have her team up with Oracle/Barbara Gordon as part of BOP. She can be their new contact and she does investigative work for them.

    -Have her team up with Lois Lane, Iris West and Linda Park. Maybe having them together will force writers to come up with what makes them different from one another.

    -Use Vicky Vale to flesh out various citizens of the Gotham from the it's most famous ones like Batman to the perspective of ordinary citizens who live there. Gotham has been through a lot of shit (Bane breaking out Arkham, Contagion, Plague, NML) so how has that shaped ordinary citizens who lived there?

  8. #38
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    85,232

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    He wasn't necessarily intended for Babs in Batman Eternal, though. And now, just as before, he's been dropped again. They shoulda just left him with Vicki!
    Yeah, but you could write it off as a Rebirth thing of putting characters back in with the ones they're more normally associated with. Although any girl is probably better off without Bard .

  9. #39
    Standing Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    16,781

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Yeah, but you could write it off as a Rebirth thing of putting characters back in with the ones they're more normally associated with. Although any girl is probably better off without Bard .
    Old school Jason Bard worked well as a neo-noir character.

    One of my film studies profs explained that you could see many 1970s movies as being neo-film noir. The classic film noir had its zenith after World War Two with returning soldiers who may have been psychologically and physically injured in the war. Everyone returned disillusioned by the horrors they'd seen. That shift in reality, where everything that should be good is inverted, becomes the driving theme of the movies. Some of these injured men return to the U.S.A. and become detectives investigating the dark sinister world that mirrors their inner turmoil.

    So Jason comes back from Vietnam but he is not whole--his leg injury represents the psychological wound he suffered.

    I guess that modern writers have stripped all that away from Bard so he doesn't make sense as a noir hero (or anti-hero). Rightly, they should have kept the returning vet angle--just updated which war as is done with other Vietnam vet characters in comics that have now come back from more recent conflicts (Iraq, Afghanistan or some comic book war).
    What the heart really wants is whiz-bang!

  10. #40
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    12,461

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Yeah, but you could write it off as a Rebirth thing of putting characters back in with the ones they're more normally associated with. Although any girl is probably better off without Bard .
    So rude! I like both Batman Eternal and classic Bard.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews, Stephanie Brown Discord

  11. #41
    Astonishing Member Mutant God's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    3,290

    Default

    Shes a novelist who writes murder mysteries and tries to become a detective but just gets into Batman's way.

  12. #42
    Fantastic Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Posts
    478

    Default

    I`d make her corrupt. Intially she comes off close to Lois but slowly the reader sees her as someone obsessed with getting notoriety and she would do anything to get a compelling story. What Lois Lane could`ve have become if Gotham broke her and took away all her principles.

    Note: I`m not really a fan of the character so that probably colors my opinion. I`m sure if she has any die hard fans, they would probably hate this direction.

  13. #43
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,945

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutant God View Post
    Shes a novelist who writes murder mysteries and tries to become a detective but just gets into Batman's way.
    Sounds like Kaye Daye...but she actually helped Batman with cases.

    I do remember one issue of Batman with 2 old ladies...sisters who liked to interfere with criminal investigations. wow, that was so long ago.
    Last edited by scary harpy; 01-26-2022 at 07:09 PM.

  14. #44
    Standing Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    16,781

    Default

    If the writers have such low opinions of these characters as you guys, then it's no wonder they write them so poorly.

    The thing about classic Vicki Vale that always fascinated me is that between 1948 and 1963, she appeared in about forty stories. Yet halfway, in 1956, Batwoman/Kathy Kane shows up and she becomes the defacto love interest for Batman/Bruce--which makes Vicki not really a love interest. She's just a reporter who's interested in Batman's cases. One would have thought she'd just be retired as was with Julie Madison, Linda Page and even Selina Kyle, now that they had a new female to centre the stories around.

    The mystery novelist is Kaye Daye.
    What the heart really wants is whiz-bang!

  15. #45
    Fantastic Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Posts
    478

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    If the writers have such low opinions of these characters as you guys, then it's no wonder they write them so poorly.

    The thing about classic Vicki Vale that always fascinated me is that between 1948 and 1963, she appeared in about forty stories. Yet halfway, in 1956, Batwoman/Kathy Kane shows up and she becomes the defacto love interest for Batman/Bruce--which makes Vicki not really a love interest. She's just a reporter who's interested in Batman's cases. One would have thought she'd just be retired as was with Julie Madison, Linda Page and even Selina Kyle, now that they had a new female to centre the stories around.

    The mystery novelist is Kaye Daye.
    Okay, but what about her appearing in 40 stories makes her interesting? Its not like the stories your referring to were Godfather level comic`s man.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •