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  1. #46
    Ghost Panther Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outburstz View Post
    Never understood this need by some fans to have the Avengers and the X-men to be absolute allies when their priorities are just not the same.

    The Avengers are simply a hero team thrown together of different people to protect Earth.

    The X-men's priorities over the years have changed because of their mutantdom and how that affects them.

    Worrying about a young runaway mutant who was kicked out of their house is not a priority of the Avengers.The mutant status makes situations and conflicts that affect mutants more personal. The mutants and the Avengers just care about different things and if there is conflict because of those difference then so be it.
    It's not a conflict of interest at all. It's a conflict because that's what Marvel wants it to be.

    Avengers and X-Men save the world all the time. A world filled with human, mutants and everything in between.

    There is a history of friendship between various Avengers and X-Men but none of that seems to be interesting to Marvel.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian B View Post
    The X-Men didn’t show up in force, either. Cassandra Nova sneak-attacked Genosha much too quick. Genosha was, in essence, Charles Xavier’s fault for not keeping his evil twin Shi’ar demon side of himself under wraps. It wasn’t humanity’s fault.

    Anyway, Avengers and X-Men could team up this time to take down the undemocratic, unelected, illegitimate super-terrorist regimes running Krakoa and Mars.
    Still not seeing what any of that has to do with where were they. A major event happened in the shared universe in marvel and they didn't show up, it is what it is. also they could start in New york if they are looking for criminal politicians where wilson fisk is mayor.
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  3. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    Still not seeing what any of that has to do with where were they. A major event happened in the shared universe in marvel and they didn't show up, it is what it is. also they could start in New york if they are looking for criminal politicians where wilson fisk is mayor.
    Currently they are as some members are on the run trying to take Fisk down through different avenues. Such having Luke run for mayor and being covert
    “There is no defense against the Scarlet Witch's HEX!

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Covetous_One View Post
    Currently they are as some members are on the run trying to take Fisk down through different avenues. Such having Luke run for mayor and being covert
    Exactly but they are taking different avenues. How would it look if mutants took down fisk though? not very good considering they have their own nation. so why set the avengers up to look bad by trying to take down the heads of krakoa when they haven't taken Down Doom or any other leader of a country that has actually attacked humanity or put it at risk. Some team ups and reasons just don't make sense.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.
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  5. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian B View Post
    Thank you. That’s bad writing. Genosha wasn’t taken down by a human.
    There is a legitimate philosophical debate on that score given who developed the technology and built the weapons.


  6. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    Exactly but they are taking different avenues. How would it look if mutants took down fisk though? not very good considering they have their own nation. so why set the avengers up to look bad by trying to take down the heads of krakoa when they haven't taken Down Doom or any other leader of a country that has actually attacked humanity or put it at risk. Some team ups and reasons just don't make sense.
    Doom has diplomatic immunity so they canÂ’t really do anything to him unless the UN allows them to. Currently we donÂ’t know if itÂ’s going to be a verses situation. They do have different priorities, but should they find themselves face to face on a mission where their priorities align that would be good start.
    “There is no defense against the Scarlet Witch's HEX!

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Covetous_One View Post
    Doom has diplomatic immunity so they canÂ’t really do anything to him unless the UN allows them to. Currently we donÂ’t know if itÂ’s going to be a verses situation. They do have different priorities, but should they find themselves face to face on a mission where their priorities align that would be good start.
    As do mutants so a positive team up where they have a mutual enemy makes a lot more sense than one in which there is an adversarial one. Especially since as of right no under Fisk, outside of the xmen stationed at the tree house have the legal right to use their super powers in nyc as they have that directive from the u.n so perhaps some avengers can move into the treehouse so they can act more independently. After all it is an open space to all of the city.

    Well certain parts of it. lol
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.
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  8. #53
    Mighty Member Outburstz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    It's not a conflict of interest at all. It's a conflict because that's what Marvel wants it to be.

    Avengers and X-Men save the world all the time. A world filled with human, mutants and everything in between.

    There is a history of friendship between various Avengers and X-Men but none of that seems to be interesting to Marvel.
    Just because some of them are friends doesn't mean they are going to comprise their priorities for the other. It absolutely can be a conflict of interest

  9. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    As do mutants so a positive team up where they have a mutual enemy makes a lot more sense than one in which there is an adversarial one. Especially since as of right no under Fisk, outside of the xmen stationed at the tree house have the legal right to use their super powers in nyc as they have that directive from the u.n so perhaps some avengers can move into the treehouse so they can act more independently. After all it is an open space to all of the city.

    Well certain parts of it. lol
    Technically Typhoid Mary can use her powers cause she is married to Fisk. Really anyone who is directed by Fisk can use their powers be they mutant, mutate, or any other. Avengers wouldn’t be able to have that same immunity since they arent affiliated with Krakoa’s government in any way. The only Avengers who could possibly operate are Black Panther and Thor. Maybe Wanda and Pietro but that’s a big if.
    “There is no defense against the Scarlet Witch's HEX!

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    Still not seeing what any of that has to do with where were they. A major event happened in the shared universe in marvel and they didn't show up, it is what it is. also they could start in New york if they are looking for criminal politicians where wilson fisk is mayor.
    Which is one reason why i dislike that the editors at the time allowed Morrison to casualy destroy Genosha with so little build up and overall impact on the Marvel Universe. Imagine the same happening with Wakanda these days.

    Or in real life Sri Lanka being eradicated by a giant killer robot and everyone in the world, including India would just shrug it off or not even bothering to aknowledge that it ever happend. With only people of sinhales diaspora ever bringing it up, while everyone else is always acting defensive about why they weren't there to prevent it.

    However because i find it such a badly made editorial decision and it's total lack of impact on the Marvel universe at large, i also find it a bad idea by later writers to use it as argument made by X-men against other heros, as part of the weird in house franchise trench war.

    Because it just reminds us to all the problems created with that storyline. Especialy since the "opposing" writers could just aswell throw it in the X-men face when they weren't there to prevent other mass casulties or near world destructions in other hero's/team's stories from happening, at which point it just becomes a terrible mud fight which harms everyone equaly and highlights the issue of having a shared universe where everyone still exist in their bubbles unless it's a special crossover.

    On a side note.
    Is it just me or is the large number of unpowered humans who died on Genosha constantly glossed over? As far as i recall it wasn't a 1% ruling over 99% of the population deal or even 10% to 90% (ala Apartheid in South Africa), but more like 20-30% of the population being unpowered humans compared to the citizen who got forced to become mutates, artifical made mutates and mutants abducted to and enslaved on Genosha prior to the fall of the Magistrates.
    So if 16 million victims refers to the number of human loss overall (not just mutants), it would put the number of unpowered human victims at around 4-5 million. Hardly a number to ignore in all the "race" rethoric thrown around in the X-men titles.
    Last edited by Grunty; 01-24-2022 at 06:04 PM.

  11. #56
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saithor View Post
    I’m not usually a fan of Duggan but he’s at least shown in X-men he won’t do the “The avengers are evil!” Routine for cheap drama, and I trust Gillen, so hopefully this does not go poorly.
    Isn't the Duggan the one who harped on Firestar being a "cop" because she was an Avenger?
    Quote Originally Posted by Outburstz View Post
    Never understood this need by some fans to have the Avengers and the X-men to be absolute allies when their priorities are just not the same.

    The Avengers are simply a hero team thrown together of different people to protect Earth.

    The X-men's priorities over the years have changed because of their mutantdom and how that affects them.

    Worrying about a young runaway mutant who was kicked out of their house is not a priority of the Avengers.The mutant status makes situations and conflicts that affect mutants more personal. The mutants and the Avengers just care about different things and if there is conflict because of those difference then so be it.
    At the end of the day they're both Superheroes who want to help people and more often than not save the world.

    If there were endangered Mutants or runaway Mutants in danger in the Avengers' purview, they would help them, they just aren't depicted that way because those are X-Men stories. But on a base level they are both groups of people that care about others, want to do good, and save people.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by IN-a-Synch View Post
    Marvel needs to stop making the Avengers the darlings and putting the Mutants into this category that they are the problem.
    That hasn't been true since Alonso left Marvel. How many Avengers titles are there currently besides the main flagship title? Compare that to when Alonso was running things where you had Mighty/Secret/Uncanny/New/AI/Dark/etc, Avengers is clearly is not a flagship compared to the Alonso or Quesada eras.

  13. #58
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    You always have people bringing up "Where where the Avengers were Genosha was wiped out?" but you never have any Avengers ask where the X-men where when Ultron murderd the entire population of Slorenia or when Kang nuked Washington DC.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exodus View Post
    emma frost speaking to Tony stark in Civil War is all I need to know about the Avengers.......there is nothing more to say!

    Attachment 117720
    Where were the X-men when Ultron murdered everyone in Slorenia/ when the Hulk incident happened in El Paso/ Kang f*king nuked Washington DC/Red Goblin was killing folks by the dozen in NYC/40 f*cking supervillains were parading around in NYC hunting Spider-man including Juggernaut?

    Gotta be the dumbest thing ever said by someone, specially by Emma of all people

    Also someone please post the panel the Xavier and X-men seeing a sign that Spidey/Human Torch IIRC is in danger but continuing to train because it's not their business.It's very early on, silver age IIRC
    Last edited by Spiderfan001; 01-24-2022 at 07:51 PM.

  15. #60
    Mighty Member Outburstz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    You always have people bringing up "Where where the Avengers were Genosha was wiped out?" but you never have any Avengers ask where the X-men where when Ultron murderd the entire population of Slorenia or when Kang nuked Washington DC.
    Not that I want Avengers in X stories but this is a bad argument considering Avengers are the ones who preach about saving the world. The mutants are a part of the world. The X-men while also saving the world at times as well have made it clear their priority are mutants because of the extended harsh treatment of mutants.

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