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  1. #46
    Astonishing Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormultt Divine View Post
    The same arguments you're using for saying mutants are inherently dangerous are similar to the notions that black folk are 'dangerous' or gang affiliated.

    No one is taking it literally but there are GOSPEL TRUTH similiarities to how mutants are treated to how im treated as a black queer person and i speak from experience.
    So black people have uncontrollable laser powers that can fry a city block in seconds?

  2. #47
    Incredible Member Stormultt Divine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    So black people have uncontrollable laser powers that can fry a city block in seconds?
    Please don't quote me with nonsense.

    Super-powered ppl dont exist in our reality, DO THEY?!.
    Don't do that and insult me speaking on my relatability to the mutants.. a world where sentient science projects and norse gods flying around yet mutants have been hunted to mass extinction.
    Last edited by Stormultt Divine; 01-25-2022 at 02:47 PM.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    The big difference is that Kang, Annihilus, and Dracula don't all live in one place and aren't in charge of the government there. Also people live where they live and the villains show up. They don't go to the villains.

    Spider-man lived in New York before the Green Goblin set up shop there. The fact that these bad guys are here now is something he has to deal with.
    If you set up a new island nation told him Green Goblin and Dr. Octopus are in charge of the government and the rest of the Sinister Six is jhanging around throwing beach parties, do you think he'd want to move there?


    Okay, you've got me there. I would too.
    If they basically aren't doing anything but throwing beach parties, what's the problem? They're out of his hair.
    Last edited by rcaguy; 01-25-2022 at 03:02 PM.

  4. #49
    Mighty Member davetvs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    I remember a story when a teenager killed everyone in a small town without meaning it. The image of the mutant can describe different realities and authors explored it… for the sake of the story, not the sake of a metaphor.
    The metaphor is the story. A minority identity being politicized and seen differently from multiple perspectives in ways that don't happen to the majority is the story. The difference in the MU between a human going on a murderous rampage and a mutant doing it is the same difference between a white person going on a murderous rampage and a black person doing it in America. The minorities are always framed as having that behavior being inherent to their identity as members of the minority group, while the majority group members just get to be isolated incidents who do not represent the group as a whole, or handwaved away as being the product of mental illness (instead of being the product of their humanness or their whiteness.)

  5. #50
    Astonishing Member mugiwara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    I remember a story when a teenager killed everyone in a small town without meaning it. The image of the mutant can describe different realities and authors explored it… for the sake of the story, not the sake of a metaphor.
    That was in Ultimate X-Men, but could still happen in 616.
    Have this issue be adressed? Do Krakoans have a way to detect future mutants whose powers could kill people when they manifest for the first time? (I remember Northstar saying that his daughter was a mutant but died before her X-gene activated, so it seems there is a way to know)
    Bringing back the old, killing the young: that's the Marvel way

  6. #51
    Astonishing Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    So black people have uncontrollable laser powers that can fry a city block in seconds?
    Do y’all know what a metaphor is?

    Now there are valid criticisms of the metaphor. They’ve made it apply to too many groups, it takes the place actual representation, some writers don’t have anything new to say about it, it’s not written to be intersectional, etc.

    There are plenty of conversations to be had about the pros and cons of the metaphor, without going “but black people don’t have superpowers!” We allll know this.

  7. #52
    Astonishing Member ChronoRogue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mugiwara View Post
    That was in Ultimate X-Men, but could still happen in 616.
    Have this issue be adressed? Do Krakoans have a way to detect future mutants whose powers could kill people when they manifest for the first time? (I remember Northstar saying that his daughter was a mutant but died before her X-gene activated, so it seems there is a way to know)
    It may be much less likely to happen in the 616 due to the mutants origin. Ultimate mutants are government experiments, while in the 616 it's caused by Celestials with much more advanced technology.

    It's rare for mutants to be born with powers that actively harm themselves, others or are completely uncontrollable. In the cases it does happen, it usually involves some sort of physical or psychological trauma (Cyclops, Rogue).

    In either case, I would imagine Cerebro might have some way of knowing what sorts of abilities or ways the x-gene might manifest and send staff that could handle the situation accordingly. That or precogs would be useful in that type of situation.

  8. #53
    Astonishing Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mugiwara View Post
    That was in Ultimate X-Men, but could still happen in 616.
    Have this issue be adressed? Do Krakoans have a way to detect future mutants whose powers could kill people when they manifest for the first time? (I remember Northstar saying that his daughter was a mutant but died before her X-gene activated, so it seems there is a way to know)
    Actually, it did happen in 616. Last issue of X-Men Gold.

    I'm just saying I don't see the connective tissue between "it's just a metaphor" and "that's the same language racists use". If it's not meant to be taken as the same thing, then why take the language as the same thing?

    Isn't there also a problem with the metaphor with the whole "mutants will replace humanity in 2-3 generations"? I don't believe any minority actually claims that.
    Last edited by LordUltimus; 01-25-2022 at 04:16 PM.

  9. #54
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    I personally as a biology professor take issue with the idea of evolutionary levels. It's in the realm of science fiction, sure, but it's annoying. When it comes out of the mouth of someone is written like a hero like one of the X-Men, I can't help but shake my head and lose a little sympathy for them. Evolutionary levels in the real world are bullshit, but your perception of the real world does paint your perspective of it in a fictional setting.

    With that said, I believe the idea of the mutant metaphor is overstretched trying to accompany too much without saying much at all. We've beaten into the ground the humans versus mutants street battle and doomsday inventions into the ground. What about systemic anti-mutant bigotry? Are mutant children forced to go to different schools than human children out of fear that they'll harm them? What about social services? Are they well meaning but badly equipped to handle them that it leads to more fiery deaths than needed? Are mutants unwanted by the system and resort to forming pickpocket rings like Oliver Twist? Is there bigotry between mutants which humans take advantage of to make sure mutants never unite? How about mutant power counseling? Clearly having people unable to control bolts of lightning running around is stupid.

    There is also the abundance of genocides in a short time period. House of M, Inhumans vs. X-Men, and Rosenberg's Run have all convinced me that no one in the writers room have picked up a book on how genocides actually function. I get it. It's a comic, but seeing genocides happen by some engineered virus is just tiresome. Real life genocides are infinitely more horrifying and not by sole virtue of actually happening. It's when you can convince the grocer, banker, and janitor to sell you out and kill you is where the real horror lies. I am convinced possibly by excessive exposure to terrible X-Men futures that no one in the writers room can write a genocide with half decent tact.

  10. #55
    Incredible Member Writerblog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    Actually, it did happen in 616. Last issue of X-Men Gold.

    I'm just saying I don't see the connective tissue between "it's just a metaphor" and "that's the same language racists use". If it's not meant to be taken as the same thing, then why take the language as the same thing?

    Isn't there also a problem with the metaphor with the whole "mutants will replace humanity in 2-3 generations"? I don't believe any minority actually claims that.
    No minority will ever claim that, because we are all the same race. The differences between our DNA are no bigger than 3%.

    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    I personally as a biology professor take issue with the idea of evolutionary levels. It's in the realm of science fiction, sure, but it's annoying. When it comes out of the mouth of someone is written like a hero like one of the X-Men, I can't help but shake my head and lose a little sympathy for them. Evolutionary levels in the real world are bullshit, but your perception of the real world does paint your perspective of it in a fictional setting.

    With that said, I believe the idea of the mutant metaphor is overstretched trying to accompany too much without saying much at all. We've beaten into the ground the humans versus mutants street battle and doomsday inventions into the ground. What about systemic anti-mutant bigotry? Are mutant children forced to go to different schools than human children out of fear that they'll harm them? What about social services? Are they well meaning but badly equipped to handle them that it leads to more fiery deaths than needed? Are mutants unwanted by the system and resort to forming pickpocket rings like Oliver Twist? Is there bigotry between mutants which humans take advantage of to make sure mutants never unite? How about mutant power counseling? Clearly having people unable to control bolts of lightning running around is stupid.

    There is also the abundance of genocides in a short time period. House of M, Inhumans vs. X-Men, and Rosenberg's Run have all convinced me that no one in the writers room have picked up a book on how genocides actually function. I get it. It's a comic, but seeing genocides happen by some engineered virus is just tiresome. Real life genocides are infinitely more horrifying and not by sole virtue of actually happening. It's when you can convince the grocer, banker, and janitor to sell you out and kill you is where the real horror lies. I am convinced possibly by excessive exposure to terrible X-Men futures that no one in the writers room can write a genocide with half decent tact.
    I think that we need to better teach evolution theory so people can stop to confuse it with eugenics.

    There is a lot of interesting thoughts going around on your post. I think that with mutant powers every often manifesting when they are pre-teens or teens, it is ike a time bomb, people simply doesn't know when a mutant can get their powers and kill a lot of people
    Last edited by Writerblog; 01-25-2022 at 07:11 PM.

  11. #56
    Astonishing Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Writerblog View Post
    No minority will ever claim that, because we are all the same race. The differences between our DNA are no bigger than 3%.
    And mutants are, what, one gene away from everyone else?


  12. #57
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    I’ve seen this discussion on this board a dozen times already. My take from it is the fact that it’s supposed to be a “metaphor” gets lost too easily. It’s never been a 1 to 1 comparison. Context is key.

    My personal opinion is don’t let anyone tell you how to enjoy your comics. If you like the metaphor awesome, if not also awesome. As long as you can enjoy the story you paid for that’s all that matters.
    You brought back Wolverine

    The CBR Community Standards a.k.a how to get along.

  13. #58
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    And mutants are, what, one gene away from everyone else?

    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, THE REGENT OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  14. #59
    Astonishing Member chamber-music's Avatar
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    I think the prejudice towards mutants does match up with a lot of real world prejudice.

    Fears of being replaced exist in our real world. The current Islamophobia in Europe, anti-Mexican/South American attitudes in the United States and hostility towards the Chinese is fuelled largely by fears that they will change or replace the current status quo (demographically, culturally, financially or power/influence).

    A lot of racism towards black people has historically been fuelled by the bizarre belief that they had near superhuman strength, stamina and invulnerability to pain. There have been various studies over the years that have shown a number of white people seem to believe black people are inherently more physically powerful (which seems to be a justification for using deadly force against unarmed black people). There have even been studies that have shown white doctors believing black people feel pain less than white people which has lead to them ignoring black patients pleas for more medical attention and under subscription for pain meds.

    “Black people’s nerve endings are less sensitive than white people’s.” “Black people’s skin is thicker than white people’s.” “Black people’s blood coagulates more quickly than white people’s.”
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...en-theyre-not/

    https://slate.com/technology/2014/11...cal-negro.html

    https://edition.cnn.com/2017/03/13/h...rnd/index.html

    https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/h...-patients-pain

    Black people can't fly or shoot lasers out there eyes but there does seem to be a weird amount of people that believe having more melanated skins grants them some sort of superpowers. Racism isn't exactly rational. Most racism stems from people who are emotionally and mentally weak who use bigoted superiority to mask their insecurities and fragile egos.

  15. #60
    Extraordinary Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    I personally as a biology professor take issue with the idea of evolutionary levels. It's in the realm of science fiction, sure, but it's annoying. When it comes out of the mouth of someone is written like a hero like one of the X-Men, I can't help but shake my head and lose a little sympathy for them. Evolutionary levels in the real world are bullshit, but your perception of the real world does paint your perspective of it in a fictional setting.
    Yeah, it's comic book logic... mixed with a few bit and pieces of RW logic.

    Also, how does the way Mutant powers often show up when the individual is in their teens fit into the analogy part? Well, the original analogy used Jews as the prototype of an oppressed minority. More specifically the way they were treated in WW2. Well why the yellow stars in WW2? Because it was genuinely hard to tell the difference by looking at people. In the case of Mutants, they're often undetectable unless you screen their DNA at birth. Which adds in a sort of paranoia... the person standing next to you could be a Mutant... and you wouldn't even know!
    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    With that said, I believe the idea of the mutant metaphor is overstretched trying to accompany too much without saying much at all. We've beaten into the ground the humans versus mutants street battle and doomsday inventions into the ground.
    Yeah, in a lot of stories it's more of a cliche than an analogy even.
    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    What about systemic anti-mutant bigotry? Are mutant children forced to go to different schools than human children out of fear that they'll harm them?
    Ostensibly this is part of the reason for the schools, but other than students getting shot at it doesn't come up a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    What about social services? Are they well meaning but badly equipped to handle them that it leads to more fiery deaths than needed?
    Hmm this has come up with kids that are dangerous... or dangerous looking... on rare oncasions, but doesn't get talked about much.
    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    Are mutants unwanted by the system and resort to forming pickpocket rings like Oliver Twist?
    That's also part of the deal with the Morlocks.
    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    Is there bigotry between mutants which humans take advantage of to make sure mutants never unite?
    Yeah, "pretty" mutants(the ones who look Human or nearly Human) sometiems get hated by the one who don't look human. That was a big deal with the Morlocks, and sometiems comes up in other contexts.
    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    How about mutant power counseling? Clearly having people unable to control bolts of lightning running around is stupid.
    Hmmm I know Rogue had a big deal with that, but I'm struggling to think of other examples.
    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    There is also the abundance of genocides in a short time period. House of M, Inhumans vs. X-Men, and Rosenberg's Run have all convinced me that no one in the writers room have picked up a book on how genocides actually function. I get it. It's a comic, but seeing genocides happen by some engineered virus is just tiresome. Real life genocides are infinitely more horrifying and not by sole virtue of actually happening. It's when you can convince the grocer, banker, and janitor to sell you out and kill you is where the real horror lies. I am convinced possibly by excessive exposure to terrible X-Men futures that no one in the writers room can write a genocide with half decent tact.
    One of the stories with Cable and Apocalypse had Apoccy muse on the various kinds of animosity directed against Mutants, and listed them off. THIS writer actually thought about the proper definitions of words like "genocide" and "pogrom" and had Apoccy muse about times they'd happened recently. It was only a page or two of the story, but still..... Apoccy actually pointed out that in the main timeline no one has ever actually succeeded with genocide, but massive death counts have come out of attempts that failed.

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