The problems with the ''mutant metaphor''

[Covetous_One]

No it doesn't.................................honestly, where are you from? Black people have pejoratives for white people as monoliths of oppression. Finding that unfair doesn't mean anti-black racism no longer exists or, isn't as bad because the oppressed group retaliated to their own oppression with "meanness". Or that gay people who would want to live a country away from straight people to escape persecution are "LGBTQ supremacists."

I’m from Texas where I’m black and gay. I’ve never liked perjorative terms that refers to a whole group of people based on race, sexual orientation, or religion.Just because those terms exist doesn’t make it right to use. In my view it causes negative stereotypes and assumptions before I even meet them. That’s why I liked how Wolverine corrected KO when he went on his tirade about humans, just how I liked the Marauders put Love in his place when he was using Krakoa as a scapegoat.

[SiycoBatSquirrel]

I will also make a separate post to make this one about the mutant metaphor problem.

Yes, especially during this era, I've seen users take this to the extreme to the excuse that just because they were persecuted by their respective home governments, they have the right to basically dominate the entire world, even annihilate countries and races that prove to be a threat to Krakoa's dominance of industry and relevance as proven in X-Force and Hellions.

In my eyes, that close parallel between RL minorities and the mutants died in the Krakoa era with resurrection being the final nail in the coffin and the parallel has no place with a fictional super-powered human race that has made themselves immortal and unaccountable to the outside world with its citizens living carefree and seek to redefine hedonism.

These mutants have become the 1% of their world.

Seriously look at how they live compared to the RL minorities that are forced to get it how they live and bust their asses at work to provide food and shelter forced to live in their communities due to financial, sexual and gender status and this is coming from a working class Black woman.

And that is simply talking about the Krakoan mutants with exception to mutants that reject or choose not to live on Krakoa.

[Saithor]

.I meean you should feel free to state your criticism but shouldn't be surprised to look Sus after declaring Mutants as racist supremists for finally getting off from under humanitys yoke

I am getting really tired of saying that I am not accusing mutantkind of being racist as a whole, I am taking issues with statements spread across most of the early era, I like the idea of Krakoa as a setting, and in fact the majority of my cristiscisms has to with the incompetence and authoritarian powers of the Quiet Council, as well as what I feel is a lack of world-building, which has essentially nothing to do with that issue. I enjoyed Utopia. I liked the idea of Genosha. I am getting real sick of being mischaracterized that every critiscism I have is because I don’t like mutants having a safe space.

[Saithor]

I will also make a separate post to make this one about the mutant metaphor problem.

Yes, especially during this era, I've seen users take this to the extreme to the excuse that just because they were persecuted by their respective home governments, they have the right to basically dominate the entire world, even annihilate countries and races that prove to be a threat to Krakoa's dominance of industry and relevance as proven in X-Force and Hellions.

In my eyes, that close parallel between RL minorities and the mutants died in the Krakoa era with resurrection being the final nail in the coffin and the parallel has no place with a fictional super-powered human race that has made themselves immortal and unaccountable to the outside world with its citizens living carefree and seek to redefine hedonism.

These mutants have become the 1% of their world.

Seriously look at how they live compared to the RL minorities that are forced to get it how they live and bust their asses at work to provide food and shelter forced to live in their communities due to financial, sexual and gender status and this is coming from a working class Black woman.

And that is simply talking about the Krakoan mutants with exception to mutants that reject or choose not to live on Krakoa.

Okay, that has little to no impact on the metaphor, because otherwise Wakanda should have been kicked out a long time ago. There’s a list of possible problems with the metaphor, a status quo enforced resurrection device that hasn’t been around long enough to cause massive societal change and might as well “Be blow up next time writers want to raise stakes” is not one of them.

[SiycoBatSquirrel]

And then they got rid of the Crucible after they realized that their mutant utopia was centered around what was, at BEST, ritualized self-harm.

Not to mention we also saw the New Mutants clapping and cheering at their friends gutting each other, so it's not like it was clear how we were supposed to feel about the Crucible anyways. Likely Hickman thought he'd just put it out there and let fans come to their conclusions, but then realized said conclusions were leading them into a path they didn't want Krakoa to be seen.

You see the problem, here?

And you know, I actually DON'T want to see Krakoa gone and be seen evil. I want them to actually prove they're superior to every civilization in history by admitting they fucked up, fixed it, and not brush it under the rug.

I agree, I like the idea of Krakoa and that mutants should be equal with the world while also having a place to call their own. However, there are far too many redflags popping up to signal a regression, rather than a progression. I will pay attention to the Marauders comic in April but I do not see how co-existence is gonna come if the narrative is hijacked by an evil psycho demon that has a fetish for torture and showmanship.

[Saithor]

but I do not see how co-existence is gonna come if the narrative is hijacked by an evil psycho demon that has a fetish for torture and showmanship.

Maybe like how Gerry Duggan clearly just wanted an Emma Frost-Kitty Pride book, maybe Steve Orlando just really wanted to do a Helluva Boss comic book adaption.

[SiycoBatSquirrel]

Okay, that has little to no impact on the metaphor, because otherwise Wakanda should have been kicked out a long time ago. There’s a list of possible problems with the metaphor, a status quo enforced resurrection device that hasn’t been around long enough to cause massive societal change and might as well “Be blow up next time writers want to raise stakes” is not one of them.

Wakanda is a monarchy that focuses on quality of life while at the same time, focusing on making its people to put in WORK to continue to find ways to keep Wakanda a powerful empire. Their society is based on being the sole manufacturing and distribution center of Vibranium while successfully escaping the common world reality of resource-rich countries composed of people living in poverty putting in safeguards that all Wakandans are guaranteed a good quality of life as long as they do their part to make it livable and safe for their people.

Wakanda was a former isolationist country that used Vibranium as a bargaining chip when they were ready to re-enter society centuries later with their own ground rules in place.

The mutants are using Krakoan tech and medicine as a bribe to remain in society while claiming Krakoa as an isolationist country.

Comparing Krakoan society to Wakandan society is like comparing apples to oranges.

On the contrary, friend, it does add to the mutant metaphor discussion and should be re-evaluated based on current circumstances and not based on the mutant's past lives in their home countries. It hasn't been around long but its made a huge impact on comics as well as the fanbase at each others throats picking sides with those in the middle getting lost or blurred out of the discussions that I know some writers are paying deep attention to. I want to look for positives but with the path this ship is sailing, looks like its just another big moneymaker they are gonna milk til it turns sour enough to give the X-office the greenlit to nuke it as it was originally planned by Hickman.

[SiycoBatSquirrel]

Maybe like how Gerry Duggan clearly just wanted an Emma Frost-Kitty Pride book, maybe Steve Orlando just really wanted to do a Helluva Boss comic book adaption.

All its missing is married grunts and a thirsty elite billionaire to come into Marauders and for all I know, Judas is Stolas and he got fed up with Blitz's BS and got a new beefy boytoy! LOL

I would actually pay to read Marauders if they had the crossover.

[marhawkman]

Which is annoying from the point of vue of the narration: if this new ideology that is spreading is polemical, we have a large bunch of people on panels who don’t seem to have any point of view on the subject, who just don’t seem to care… They are just there to fill the panels: “don’t bother us with thinking, we are the plebs of Krakoa.”

Yeah, and the leaders do stuff like getting pissed at Paibok for coming to Krakoa... Not because of being HOSTILE, which he wasn't, but for being a Skrull..... that's just DUMb... especially when he's there to help them fight a mutual threat.

[Grunty]

All its missing is married grunts and a thirsty elite billionaire to come into Marauders and for all I know, Judas is Stolas and he got fed up with Blitz's BS and got a new beefy boytoy! LOL

I would actually pay to read Marauders if they had the crossover.

Funny thought, given his previous X-men work involved a queen of hell commanding a team of monsterous looking mutants who love to cause bloody carnage, albeit against monsters and demons by the sound of it.

So trying to stop a group like I.M.P would actualy fall into their realm of work (if they would exist outside that one story though).

[bat39]

I will also make a separate post to make this one about the mutant metaphor problem.

Yes, especially during this era, I've seen users take this to the extreme to the excuse that just because they were persecuted by their respective home governments, they have the right to basically dominate the entire world, even annihilate countries and races that prove to be a threat to Krakoa's dominance of industry and relevance as proven in X-Force and Hellions.

In my eyes, that close parallel between RL minorities and the mutants died in the Krakoa era with resurrection being the final nail in the coffin and the parallel has no place with a fictional super-powered human race that has made themselves immortal and unaccountable to the outside world with its citizens living carefree and seek to redefine hedonism.

These mutants have become the 1% of their world.

Seriously look at how they live compared to the RL minorities that are forced to get it how they live and bust their asses at work to provide food and shelter forced to live in their communities due to financial, sexual and gender status and this is coming from a working class Black woman.

And that is simply talking about the Krakoan mutants with exception to mutants that reject or choose not to live on Krakoa.

It seems to me that a lot of the opposition to the Krakoa era that I've seen on this thread (and elsewhere) comes down to it not fitting in neatly with the ''mutant metaphor''. People expect mutants to, first and foremost, reflect the situation of real-life minorities (either real-life minorities collectively, or a specific group that they identify with or sympathize with). So when the franchise does something with mutants that doesn't neatly slot into the metaphor and expectations that they have of it, there's a backlash.

Which is not to say that the Krakoa era is necessarily some kind of perfect masterpiece beyond reproach. But it does feel as though a lot of the opposition to it stems from the fact that it doesn't fit in with the mutant metaphor perfectly.

Wakanda is a monarchy that focuses on quality of life while at the same time, focusing on making its people to put in WORK to continue to find ways to keep Wakanda a powerful empire. Their society is based on being the sole manufacturing and distribution center of Vibranium while successfully escaping the common world reality of resource-rich countries composed of people living in poverty putting in safeguards that all Wakandans are guaranteed a good quality of life as long as they do their part to make it livable and safe for their people.

Wakanda was a former isolationist country that used Vibranium as a bargaining chip when they were ready to re-enter society centuries later with their own ground rules in place.

The mutants are using Krakoan tech and medicine as a bribe to remain in society while claiming Krakoa as an isolationist country.

Comparing Krakoan society to Wakandan society is like comparing apples to oranges.

On the contrary, friend, it does add to the mutant metaphor discussion and should be re-evaluated based on current circumstances and not based on the mutant's past lives in their home countries. It hasn't been around long but its made a huge impact on comics as well as the fanbase at each others throats picking sides with those in the middle getting lost or blurred out of the discussions that I know some writers are paying deep attention to. I want to look for positives but with the path this ship is sailing, looks like its just another big moneymaker they are gonna milk til it turns sour enough to give the X-office the greenlit to nuke it as it was originally planned by Hickman.

The way I see it, Krakoa taps into the fact that mutants, unlike any real-world minority, are actually an immensely powerful group in the Marvel Universe who are theorized to be ''the next step in human evolution''. Being homo superior, they finally ''got their act together'' and built a new ''superior'' society on their living mutant island.

In many ways, the current status quo is a consequence of A) mutants facing discrimination and prejudice in human society like many real-world minorities and oppressed groups, and B) unlike real-world minorities and oppressed groups, mutants have the ability to build their own society that can fundamentally change the global balance of power. It's tapping into the sci-fi conceit that mutants are homo superior and that their reaction to discrimination, prejudice and attemped genocide will therefore be very different from that of any real-world group.

[BroHomo]

No it doesn't.................................honestly, where are you from? Black people have pejoratives for white people as monoliths of oppression. Finding that unfair doesn't mean anti-black racism no longer exists or, isn't as bad because the oppressed group retaliated to their own oppression with "meanness". Or that gay people who would want to live a country away from straight people to escape persecution are "LGBTQ supremacists."

Brrruh this needs to be pinned at the start of this thread lol

I am getting really tired of saying that I am not accusing mutantkind of being racist as a whole, I am taking issues with statements spread across most of the early era, I like the idea of Krakoa as a setting, and in fact the majority of my cristiscisms has to with the incompetence and authoritarian powers of the Quiet Council, as well as what I feel is a lack of world-building, which has essentially nothing to do with that issue. I enjoyed Utopia. I liked the idea of Genosha. I am getting real sick of being mischaracterized that every critiscism I have is because I don’t like mutants having a safe space.

I meeeean my dude if those are the kinda misunderstandings you keep having maaaaybe its to time reread your posts see if cant maybe identify some words of phrases that draw people to they conclusion

Wakanda is a monarchy that focuses on quality of life while at the same time, focusing on making its people to put in WORK to continue to find ways to keep Wakanda a powerful empire. Their society is based on being the sole manufacturing and distribution center of Vibranium while successfully escaping the common world reality of resource-rich countries composed of people living in poverty.

Eh having monarchy still is kinda cringe...And why would you make your people WORK if they don't have to? Life isn't supposed to be about working a hrs long job. If it had the sources to allow everyone to pursue what they wanted ok probably be even more advanced

Wakanda was a former isolationist country that used Vibranium as a bargaining chip when they were ready to re-enter society centuries later with their own ground rules in place.

The mutants are using Krakoan tech and medicine as a bribe to remain in society while claiming Krakoa as an isolationist country.

Did Krakoa didn't just sit and while the world went to war Twice! Or turn a blind eye to neighboring people's were captured and sold. Or refuse to give up it's cure for cancer

Comparing Krakoan society to Wakandan society is like comparing apples to oranges.

I mean true...

I will also make a separate post to make this one about the mutant metaphor problem.

Yes, especially during this era, I've seen users take this to the extreme to the excuse that just because they were persecuted by their respective home governments, they have the right to basically dominate the entire world, even annihilate countries and races that prove to be a threat to Krakoa's dominance of industry and relevance as proven in X-Force and Hellions.

Eh not really a right buuut a reason? Definitely lol. How are they tryna take over the world tho? Being mean to humans behind their back ?

In my eyes, that close parallel between RL minorities and the mutants died in the Krakoa era with resurrection being the final nail in the coffin and the parallel has no place with a fictional super-powered human race that has made themselves immortal and unaccountable to the outside world with its citizens living carefree and seek to redefine hedonism.

Buuuut before the resurrection protocols, the X-Gene, Aliens, Alternate realities, those we're all still a close parallel. Now it's also cause they're carefree? Damn!

Seriously look at how they live compared to the RL minorities that are forced to get it how they live and bust their asses at work to provide food and shelter forced to live in their communities due to financial, sexual and gender status and this is coming from a working class Black woman.

soooo Mutants should wanna move into the inner-city to substandard houses? Surrounded by violence Beeecause that's how minorities live???

Lawd!!

[Spiderfan001]

I think you left out one thing.

Mutants asking "who do people hate us?" when you have people like Magneto appearing on TV attacking military bases and ranting about how they're superior and how mutants will one day crush humanity under their heels.

The fact that the X-men support Magneto (or vice versa) these days only makes that worse.

And the fact Mags literally told human reps "You have new gods now" in Krakoa era...

Can't even say that was Mags before he came around w/ the x-men

What's not clicking? That is true for anyone with enough control of their faculties to injure someone else. We are all inherently dangerous and inherently innocent, just because someone has dark skin, or long limbs, or autism, or an X-Gene doesn't mean they're more likely to hurt you. So discrimination ends up being nonsensical and thus minority groups struggle against it to achieve civil rights...like mutants in the marvel universe.

Bruh, mutant powers manifesting isn't smth mutants can control.From Scott's mutation to the kid at the end of X-men gold who killed multiple people when his mutation manifested to the kid in 1610 who killed his entire town and then killed by Wolvie.Or people like Storm who when under intense grief needed threaten the planet to the point of being needed to be taken of planet.All this is stuff they can't control btw, we haven't even gotten to multiple people who could and do use their mutant powers for what they feel like.

You did not just compare the inherent danger of the X-gene to a normal human

Also did you miss the comics where mutants are stated to be the next stage of human evolution

So black people have uncontrollable laser powers that can fry a city block in seconds?

This.The logic isn't adding up

Eh having monarchy still is kinda cringe...And why would you make your people WORK if they don't have to? Life isn't supposed to be about working a hrs long job. If it had the sources to allow everyone to pursue what they wanted ok probably be even more advanced

They don't anymore

Because the people want to progress, they aren't lazy in their lifestyle.That's why Wakanda is where it is in 616, because the structure makes sure everyone lives up to their potential.Also they aren't forced to work, they all choose what they want to do

Or refuse to give up it's cure for cancer

Bruh they have the secret to immortality, that's like having a million dollars and giving someone one dollar.And X deaths of Wolvie says it's not a cure but will buy time.

[davetvs]

Bruh, mutant powers manifesting isn't smth mutants can control.From Scott's mutation to the kid at the end of X-men gold who killed multiple people when his mutation manifested to the kid in 1610 who killed his entire town and then killed by Wolvie.Or people like Storm who when under intense grief needed threaten the planet to the point of being needed to be taken of planet.All this is stuff they can't control btw, we haven't even gotten to multiple people who could and do use their mutant powers for what they feel like.

You did not just compare the inherent danger of the X-gene to a normal human


This.The logic isn't adding up.

Not every mutant has a dangerous power. Cypher's power manifesting isn't threatening anyone's safety, therefore mutants cannot be tarred with the same brush which is the whole point of fighting against stereotyping and discrimination. I'm not saying there's no such thing as a dangerous mutant. I'm saying you can't say "mutants are dangerous because they have the capacity to harm others" as if that's not true of humans as well.

You say the logic doesn't add up but Black Americans have literally been accused of having extra muscles in our legs, skin that doesn't feel pain (or burn), and a whole bunch of other ridiculous shit that makes no sense, defies all logic, and still contributes to systemic oppression aka medical racism. Like, look it up maybe before trying to pretend the mutant minority metaphor makes no sense while you're talking to actual minorities who understand how it does?????? Maybe??????? Not to say it's perfectly written, it's not. I already said it's not and it won't be as long as the majority of X-writers are straight white men, but that's another topic. Sort of.

I don't understand why so many people are pressed to invalidate the franchise's central theme. Well, I do, but....anyway....if you want a generic superhero team book that doesn't make you have to consider the experiences of marginalized people, read Avengers.

[BroHomo]

Bruh, mutant powers manifesting isn't smth mutants can control.From Scott's mutation to the kid at the end of X-men gold who killed multiple people when his mutation manifested to the kid in 1610 who killed his entire town and then killed by Wolvie.Or people like Storm who when under intense grief needed threaten the planet to the point of being needed to be taken of planet.All this is stuff they can't control btw, we haven't even gotten to multiple people who could and do use their mutant powers for what they feel like.

Errr Didn't the Pretender use her powers to eFF up everyone's reality in the 616 ? Also didn't she kill a buncha folks? She ain't s mutant. Also there's Vision who got preeeeety close to taking over the world...Then there they starchild. The Pretender is a reg human. Vision is man made. And the starkid was brought to Earth by Avengers...none of that sh!t was the fault of any mutant. These are 'heros' old enough to know right and wrong... The star kid ... couldn't control her planet ending powers

You did not just compare the inherent danger of the X-gene to a normal human

I just gave an example of a reg human fvckin up the whole of reality

This.The logic isn't adding up

Agree it's illogical

Bruh they have the secret to immortality, that's like having a million dollars and giving someone one dollar.And X deaths of Wolvie says it's not a cure but will buy time.

Again what's the difference between the Mutants guarding that secret and Wakanda keeping the cure for cancer?

Not every mutant has a dangerous power. Cypher's power manifesting isn't threatening anyone's safety, therefore mutants cannot be tarred with the same brush which is the whole point of fighting against stereotyping and discrimination. I'm not saying there's no such thing as a dangerous mutant. I'm saying you can't say "mutants are dangerous because they have the capacity to harm others" as if that's not true of humans as well.

Ugh DANKE!!!

You say the logic doesn't add up but Black Americans have literally been accused of having extra muscles in our legs, skin that doesn't feel pain (or burn), and a whole bunch of other ridiculous shit that makes no sense, defies all logic, and still contributes to systemic oppression aka medical racism. Like, look it up maybe before trying to pretend the mutant minority metaphor makes no sense while you're talking to actual minorities who understand how it does?????? Maybe??????? Not to say it's perfectly written, it's not. I already said it's not and it won't be as long as the majority of X-writers are straight white men, but that's another topic. Sort of.

lol I'd like to also include a Maybe???????

I don't understand why so many people are pressed to invalidate the franchise's central theme. Well, I do, but....anyway....if you want a generic superhero team book that doesn't make you have to consider the experiences of marginalized people, read Avengers.

Zaaaamn don't hurt 'em with the truth so early