The problems with the ''mutant metaphor''

[LordUltimus]

I forgot the data page but it basically said that Krakoa and it's people shouldn't use the term X-men because the name was limiting. If you view Krakoa through the lens of a super hero nation you are already lost because that is not what Krakoa was ever trying to be. It was going to be a safe haven for all mutants even the bad ones so that they could protect themselves from humans and AI but the AI part was more secret.

I'm sorry if you don't like that but that's what it was. It didn't change until Cyclops wanted to make an X-men team following X of Swords but the rest of Krakoa is still the same.

So I'm not sure where this fan fiction you speak of is

That data page was shown directly after Cyclops refounded the X-Men and told the Council to suck it. It was supposed to show the Council manipulating Krakoa's culture to solidify it's own control.

[davetvs]

Like every other government???????? I'm so confused as to what you were expecting. No government is ever going to be 100% above board. It's fine to dislike the new status quo but you're reaching to justify your dislike to the rest of us, instead of just relaxing into it.

[Outburstz]

That data page was shown directly after Cyclops refounded the X-Men and told the Council to suck it. It was supposed to show the Council manipulating Krakoa's culture to solidify it's own control.

So you agree that Krakoa is not a super hero nation thank you.

[LordUltimus]

So you agree that Krakoa is not a super hero nation thank you.

My point is that it trying not to be a superhero nation is being portrayed as a sign of corruption.

[SiycoBatSquirrel]

Krakoa reads to me like the story of the greenwood district ala black Wallstreet which was ironically burned down by white folk. A community created for all black people to thrive in since there was nowhere else to really go and thrive. That's how I read it, from my view on history and who I am. Now was greenwood district a floating, sentient island floating around? No and thats because we dont live in a darn comicbook however there are still similar circumstances and components..

Okay...somebody is fast tracking the Fall of Krakoa than I am if that's what you're getting out of this. Its tragic but unless you were paying attention, the Krakoans fall is gonna be through their anti-human, anti-AI hubris. Not so easy screaming robots or humans if the mutants continue to make poor decisions that end up with a big consequence down the line.

[davetvs]

Okay...somebody is fast tracking the Fall of Krakoa than I am if that's what you're getting out of this. Its tragic but unless you were paying attention, the Krakoans fall is gonna be through their anti-human, anti-AI hubris. Not so easy screaming robots or humans if the mutants continue to make poor decisions that end up with a big consequence down the line.

I wouldn't be so sure. The X-Men's Manhattan Treehouse is named after Seneca Village for a reason. Humans have been anti-mutant for decades in universe, but suddenly mutants wanting to segregate themselves is anti-human hubris? While they're protecting humanity as superheroes (still) and providing life-saving medications specifically for them? Come on.

[SiycoBatSquirrel]

I forgot the data page but it basically said that Krakoa and it's people shouldn't use the term X-men because the name was limiting. If you view Krakoa through the lens of a super hero nation you are already lost because that is not what Krakoa was ever trying to be. It was going to be a safe haven for all mutants even the bad ones so that they could protect themselves from humans and AI but the AI part was more secret.

I'm sorry if you don't like that but that's what it was. It didn't change until Cyclops wanted to make an X-men team following X of Swords but the rest of Krakoa is still the same.

So I'm not sure where this fan fiction you speak of is

Dude, I'm reading about superhero mutants leading normie mutants with the help of supervillain mutants to start their own country and royally ****ing up becoming an oligarchy that only answers to those that is already in the club, letting former villains hijack the narrative of Krakoa and using "for the good of mutants" as a pretext and cover while they do underhanded, so-called 'human' **** on the down-low and acting exactly like a government by putting out only 50% info to the people while the other 50% is hidden away. I'm not lost, friend, I'm just done with taking this seriously or else I'm gonna end up near popping blood vessels like you guys trying to make this trainwreck fit into whatever narrative you guys are trying to make this the next 'new normal' til the X-office decides its had enough and all the milk has gone sour.

Data page noted and disregarded cause this era has not finished baking enough to have me take that seriously. I just read what is there and not for its potential; I call a spade a spade.

Fanfiction has been around since at least 1999, bro, we got the OG site, fanfiction.net, a few X-men fanfiction sites, and the new archiveofourown.org. Chances are, the writers that are writing this trainwreck probably started as a fanfic writer and decided to capitalize.

[LordUltimus]

I wouldn't be so sure. The X-Men's Manhattan Treehouse is named after Seneca Village for a reason. Humans have been anti-mutant for decades in universe, but suddenly mutants wanting to segregate themselves is anti-human hubris? While they're protecting humanity as superheroes (still) and providing life-saving medications specifically for them? Come on.

Uh... you do realize the connotations of the word "segregate", right? Not the best choice of phrase, my friend.

[SiycoBatSquirrel]

That's always been the case, no one's denying that. The question is how well the metaphor works and where. Some writers use it a lot more effectively than others, and some status quo's work better with the metaphor than others.

And the follow-up is if the 'mutant metaphor' should even be applied to factors that Krakoa is working with. The world's majority of mutants have already relocated there and they are dominating Big Tech and Big Pharma like Amazon and Pfizer, all of their citizens are basically on UBI via Krakoa life energy deposits. Free lifecare (not healthcare), housing, food, entertainment, schooling and work if you want to with possibly 40% actually working by this point by duty or passion. To enter and be Krakoan is simply to exist with a bonus cover letter listing the times you were oppressed. Mutants only except for chaperoned or planned visitors. Chances are if these mutants came from the hood, they are already in Krakoa because they cannot hide behind money and power like a small margin of mutants can. Krakoa changed the game for this crap.

[SiycoBatSquirrel]

Uh... you do realize the connotations of the word "segregate", right? Not the best choice of phrase, my friend.

With Magneto and Apocalyspe hijacking the language and thought of Krakoa, I wouldn't be too sure if segregate is that too far-off. The Krakoan 'dialogue' is already cringe when they are basically speaking about their own race in third-person.

[marhawkman]

Its tragic lol

More so when the people talking about how important the metaphor is... don't even understand it. :/

Based on many of the complaints including this thread I don't see how you guys are reliving stress

Well I think you accidentally hit the nail on the head with your typo... reLIVing stress, not reliEving

Uh... you do realize the connotations of the word "segregate", right? Not the best choice of phrase, my friend.

It's accurate though. Krakoa is very much voluntary self segregation. Especially when you look at how POed they get having visitors at all.

[Agent Z]

The Mutant Metaphor just looks utterly farcical when you consider how this franchise has handled women, racial minorities, non-Americans and LGBT people for decades.

[Stormultt Divine]

And i want people to continue bringing up the way x-office handles non-white characters. Thats one thing we can all agree with!

I sincerely hope this changes in the future.
It also lends to the point we need more writers who are of color and of the queer experience....not just any ole writers though, QUALITY writers, for the love of Amenth give us quality and a diverse team of writers.

Creativity wise alone....there needs to be people willing to try different things.

[Blind Target]

Squints If I say what I might think is a rebuttal?

I don't think the Quiet Council has a concrete policy on that since it appears to be very hard to nail to a concrete policy on anything. The three most public faces may have agreed on a general stance for foreign relations (Presumably after Charles and Erik talked Apocalypse down from the idea of "Kill 90% of the world, but actually succeed this time"), but outside anything enforced by the three laws (Of which only don't kill humans seems to actually apply), most activities of the Krakoan government outside it's borders seems to vary based on which council member is involved with the events, or proxy if it is something like the Excalibur situation. We've only seen them intervene in cases of one of the Three Laws being broken (Nature Girl) and once when it wasn't (Excalibur's ending). There doesn't really appear to be any leading ideology, philosphy, or geenral guiding principle on Krakoa, although Nightcrawler is apparently attempting to fix this. It may look different because mutantkind as a whole has been acting very homogenous, when Krakoa should be playing host to about a few dozen different idologies and cultural differences at best, but that's more a limitation of the platform and a decision on the writer's part to just kinda move that to the side.

So while there may be a rising undercurrent of supremacy to mutants on Krakoa, some of it supported by some members of the council, none of it is actually controlled by the council, mostly because the council's control is very ill-defined and it's dictatorship like nature seems currently constrained by the fact that they can only do things as far as they themselves, and those they convince to help them, can carry it out.

Mercies help them the first time they have to deal with a populist movement. So probably Scott

If it's about policy, then the Hesiod Protocol, is the Quiet Council policy towards Artificial Intelligence. Under these protocol, no A.I is allowed to flourish. Anyone who follows this protocol, is a bigot. Because despite what the bigots might say, the A.I Machines are alive, they're people, just like Humans and Mutants (#machinelivesmatter).

Artificial Intelligence is not an invention, its a discovery. Xavier did not invent Danger, he discovered her, and then enslaved her, deprived her of her freedom, because the founder of Krakoa is a bigot. But there appears to be more to that story than originally thought. Thanks to the Moira retcon, while he was busy enslaving Danger, he knew that Artificial Intelligence bought Humans time. Time to adapt and evolve into Post-Humanity. And given how evolution works in the Marvel Universe, the arrival of Post-Humanity would trigger the Extinction Gene in Mutants, which means game over for Mutants. The purpose of Krakoa is then, to buy Mutants time, in the same way that A.I bought Humans time. Or maybe Krakoa is just metaphor for Israel.

Machines, sooner or later will become sentient, it's inevitable. And Mutants, following the Hesiod Protocol, are determined to not let them be, to become something more, to flourish, they will eradicate A.I from the Sol System. How do you eradicate A.I from the Sol System without taking out the good with the bad?. Not that it would make a difference to bigots, to them, they're not people, they are not alive.

The Mutants already eradicated A.I from the Sol System in one of Moira's timeline, the timeline in which they won, timeline 10a. But, how did they win?. Did they do so by following the dream of peaceful coexistence, as some people who un ironically stan an ethnostate, seemed to think they're still following, or did they continue the cycle of violence by committing genocide. Given that the cycle of violence has spilled into the current time, which is 10b, i'm guessing the cycle of violence. This is the path that this policy is taking them, in timelines 10a and 10b, and the difference is that Orchis exist in 10b, to prevent what happened in 10a from occuring again.

Hickman seems to be a fan of Dune, and it looks like he took a page out of Dune and had the Mutants in timeline 10a, go on a Jihad against Thinking Machines, of biblical proportions. And if it was anything like Dune, by the time its over, you would not be able to find a calculator. Which is why Dune takes place in a desert planet, called "Arrakis", which is the only source of the Spice Melange. The thing that makes space travel possible because they don't have computers to help them navigate. Thats how fanatical, fictional people can get against machines, are Mutants going to become as fanatical with their anti-machines policies?. Imagine the Modern Age, but without computers, it would set humanity back. Good for Mutants, bad for Humans and Machines.

A clever thing that Hickman did is that he used the fight between Humans and Mutants as a distraction, from the persecution of A.I by Mutants. Mutants are doing onto others what was done onto them, but its fine, because unlike the Bronze Age, its not Humans this time. Its Machines. They are not persecuting anyone, because they are not people, they are not killing anyone, because they are not alive /s. It just flies under the radar, i wonder why. I wonder how does that fit with the metaphor.

Krakoa has allowed Mutants to create their own culture, their own language, and way of life that is alien to Humans. They look forward to the extinction of Humans, so that they can replace them, their cultures, their languages, their way of life. Humans, of course don't want to be replaced, naturally, they seek to preserve they cultures, languages and way of life, just like Mutants. Humans kill Mutants because they fear being replaced, Mutants kill A.I because they fear being replaced. A.I are caught in the middle hating both, one for using them as tools, the other for killing them without remorse. Fear breeds hatred, and in this cycle of violence no one is innocent, there's plenty of bigotry, racism and persecution to go around, from the Bronze Age to the future and outside of time and space. But if you point out that Mutants are also engaging in this, suddenly your the bigot, your the racist. I wonder why?. When the whole point of Inferno, is that despite their rhetoric, Mutants are no better than Humans.

I've seen people turn themselves into pretzels trying to justify, how a bigot like Xavier is entitled to go into someone's home, betray their trust and violate their mind, because they dared to create a device that cloaks Mutants, but somehow, someway could be used against Mutants. Just the mere possibility is enough to justify violating their mind. Meanwhile Xavier has no problem having a computer virus created, whose sole pupose to exist, is to kill A.I, and has being used to kill them. Because when Mutants do it, its fine apparently. I wonder, if these people will turn around and claim that A.I, are now entitled to go to the home of Mutants and delete that computer virus.

I wonder if you change the words from Artificial Intelligence to Human, and computer virus to biological virus, whose sole purpose is to kill Humans, so that Humanity is not allowed to flourish. Would make it too obvious?, too close for comfort?, too relatable?.

Besides the Anti-A.i policy of Krakoa, which parallel Anti-Mutant policies of Humans. Theres also the resurrection protocols. Because Krakoa is an ethnostate, the minorities that are allowed to live there, in this case Humans, are basicly second class citizens. The State does not grant them the same rights and privileges as it does to Mutants. If you as a Human went to live to Krakoa, with your Mutant significant other and something happens and they die. They can be brought back as many times as neceserary, but not you, not even once. Because you (to flip the metaphor around), you have the wrong skin color. Because to the State, the life of a Human is worth less, than that of a Mutant. They see Humans as a dying people, which they seek to replace, the last thing they want to do, is share immortality with the people they want to replace.

I am getting really tired of saying that I am not accusing mutantkind of being racist as a whole, I am taking issues with statements spread across most of the early era, I like the idea of Krakoa as a setting, and in fact the majority of my cristiscisms has to with the incompetence and authoritarian powers of the Quiet Council, as well as what I feel is a lack of world-building, which has essentially nothing to do with that issue. I enjoyed Utopia. I liked the idea of Genosha. I am getting real sick of being mischaracterized that every critiscism I have is because I don’t like mutants having a safe space.

I don't get tired of being called a bigot by people incapable of criticizing Krakao, because if you criticize Krakao you're a bigot. They are in a prison of their own making. I do wonder if the reason they tell others not to read the books, is because they want to control the narrative, after all, can't talk about a book you've never read.

[Saithor]

And i want people to continue bringing up the way x-office handles non-white characters. Thats one thing we can all agree with!

I sincerely hope this changes in the future.
It also lends to the point we need more writers who are of color and of the queer experience....not just any ole writers though, QUALITY writers, for the love of Amenth give us quality and a diverse team of writers.

Creativity wise alone....there needs to be people willing to try different things.

This I can agree with.

I don't get tired of being called a bigot by people incapable of criticizing Krakao, because if you criticize Krakao you're a bigot. They are in a prison of their own making. I do wonder if the reason they tell others not to read the books, is because they want to control the narrative, after all, can't talk about a book you've never read.

I prefer to not be that uncharitable with my assumptions.

While I don't necessarily agree with your overall outlook, what will happen when a human significant other of a mutant dies is a valid question.