The problems with the ''mutant metaphor''

[davetvs]

They really love to try it. I'm sorry civil rights themes make some of y'all uncomfortable but X-Men has always been about them. So why are you here?

[Spiderfan001]

Not every mutant has a dangerous power. Cypher's power manifesting isn't threatening anyone's safety, therefore mutants cannot be tarred with the same brush which is the whole point of fighting against stereotyping and discrimination. I'm not saying there's no such thing as a dangerous mutant. I'm saying you can't say "mutants are dangerous because they have the capacity to harm others" as if that's not true of humans as well.

Cypher is one of the exceptions, look at how many mutants we've seen and how many of their powers aren't or can't be harmful when manifesting or under distress or w/out gadgets

And again, entire point is so many times they can't control their mutation specially when it's manifesting or under distress.No Human beings do that, they can't

A dangerous mutant is not the same as a dangerous human in both how much damage they can cause and intent.The cases mentioned didn't have the mutants wanting to cause harm, I mentioned this in the post.

You say the logic doesn't add up but Black Americans have literally been accused of having extra muscles in our legs, skin that doesn't feel pain (or burn), and a whole bunch of other ridiculous **** that makes no sense, defies all logic, and still contributes to systemic oppression aka medical racism. Like, look it up maybe before trying to pretend the mutant minority metaphor makes no sense while you're talking to actual minorities who understand how it does?????? Maybe??????? Not to say it's perfectly written, it's not. I already said it's not and it won't be as long as the majority of X-writers are straight white men, but that's another topic. Sort of.

I'm a minority bruh, and the point is the things we/they are accused of are false and ridiculous.Mutants can actually shoot laser beams out of their eyes, and have powers they can't fully control.We've seen this numerous times and dozens if not hundreds have died by it.

Def. agree we need more minority writers to tackle the subject

I don't understand why so many people are pressed to invalidate the franchise's central theme. Well, I do, but....anyway....if you want a generic superhero team book that doesn't make you have to consider the experiences of marginalized people, read Avengers.

Because it's a disservice to what it's preaching.When mutants are canonically the next step of human evolution and have powers that do make them dangerous they aren't a viable metaphor for discrimination that makes no logical sense

Also our heroes(including Magneto) are sitting on a council w/ a nazi(Sinister) who isn't even a mutant so spare me the moral high ground BS

Avengers has better rep than current X-men, not only in sheer numbers but the roles they play in the story.

1)Rn Black Panther is leading the Avengers and has a solo ongoing
2)Echo has phoenix and has own mini
3)Robbie is the center of the multiversal forever Avengers storyline in both main story and the mini and had a couple story arcs set on him before that on top of being the POV person of the team.
4)And Blade was a part of the Avengers and also a sheriff to Vampires rn

Tell me what stories X-men rep have real quick?

[Spiderfan001]

Errr Didn't the Pretender use her powers to eFF up everyone's reality in the 616 ? Also didn't she kill a buncha folks? She ain't s mutant. Also there's Vision who got preeeeety close to taking over the world...Then there they starchild. The Pretender is a reg human. Vision is man made. And the starkid was brought to Earth by Avengers...none of that sh!t was the fault of any mutant. These are 'heros' old enough to know right and wrong... The star kid ... couldn't control her planet ending powers

And you think I'm defending them why?They should be judged by the same standards as mutants

Not sure what starkid is? Do you mean the starbrand?

I just gave an example of a reg human fvckin up the whole of reality

She's not a regular human same way Spider-man/doctor strange/X-men aren't regular humans

Again what's the difference between the Mutants guarding that secret and Wakanda keeping the cure for cancer?

There's not, Wakanda keeping that cure was a terrible thing.But Wakanda is and has always been about their survival, I don't know if you've read the comics but all the dead Kings only care about the survival of the golden city no matter the cost(as seen in Hickman's Avengers).This is smth T'challa disagrees w/, hence not using the anti-matter bomb even if meant Wakanda's demise and now trying democracy for Wakanda.

The entire point is that T'challa wants to and does better.I'm not seeing people or our heroes on Krakoa change it's ways or even discuss it so they should be judged the same as the dead Kings of wakanda.They put their survival over others, it's not evil but not morally correct either

[Spiderfan001]

They really love to try it. I'm sorry civil rights themes make some of y'all uncomfortable but X-Men has always been about them. So why are you here?

They don't make us uncomfortable.Minorities aren't the next stage of human evolution and don't have abilities that create a severe power imbalance which are the reasons people fear mutants(same as they do other metahumans) in 616

It's not a good metaphor and we deserve better, not just by the themes alone but w/ how little diversity their is in the characters of the story.Why you settle for such a terrible representation of these themes is the real question

Real great rep of these themes while our heroes are sitting w/ a nazi who wasn't even a mutant and the guy who helped w/ the creation of sentinels not to mention Cassandra Nova.A bit hypocritical specially of Magneto isn't it?specially when Sinister isn't even a real mutant

[BroHomo]

And again, entire point is so many times they can't control their mutation specially when it's manifesting or under distress. thanks No Human beings do that, they can't

Hazmat did....The Sentry did...The Pretender did...

A dangerous mutant is not the same as a dangerous human in both how much damage they can cause and intent.The cases mentioned didn't have the mutants wanting to cause harm, I mentioned this in the post.

True....a dangerous human with intent usually leaves a few dead mutants

I'm a minority bruh, and the point is the things we/they are accused of are false and ridiculous.Mutants can actually shoot laser beams out of their eyes, and have powers they can't fully control.We've seen this numerous times and dozens if not hundreds have died by it.

Hundreds??? Forreals? Yes it is ridiculous the stuff people will believe to make different people into less than human. But people really do believe that sh!t.

Because it's a disservice to what it's preaching.When mutants are canonically the next step of human evolution and have powers that do make them dangerous they aren't a viable metaphor for discrimination that makes no logical sense

Errr but why? In a world with Aliens... Monsters...Thor walking around why is it mutant powers and humanitys reaction to it is 'too much' for people to accept? Why the need to try and control the interpretation of the narrative? Does it cause you that much pain/annoyance? Also it doesn't make any kinda sense to compare some fantastical element in a story with the re world. People asking if black people can shoot lasers are just being obtuse as if there's not dozens of reports of minorities dying when met with the irrational hate and fear of majority. If you saw a lil girl reading a wonder woman comic would you slap it outta her hand cause she's not a demigod with a magic lasso

Also our heroes(including Magneto) are sitting on a council w/ a nazi(Sinister) who isn't even a mutant so spare me the moral high ground BS

I meeeean don't the Avengers still rock with The Pretender?
Soooo

Avengers has better rep than current X-men, not only in sheer numbers but the roles they play in the story.

1)Rn Black Panther is leading the Avengers and has a solo ongoing
2)Echo has phoenix and has own mini
3)Robbie is the center of the multiversal forever Avengers storyline in both main story and the mini and had a couple story arcs set on him before that on top of being the POV person of the team.
4)And Blade was a part of the Avengers and also a sheriff to Vampires rn

Oh nice on the reppin'
All these characters were already established before they were Avengers except (Echo) who's riding the cockadoodledoo of the Phoenix

Tell me what stories X-men rep have real quick?

Good ones?

[Covetous_One]

Hazmat did....The Sentry did...The Pretender did...

Each of them already had their powers, but had times when they got out of control. What about that time Xavier went into the past to stop a mutant from being born because he was perceived as being to powerful to control or as recently when he didn’t even want to resurrect his own son because he saw him as too dangerous and a threat?

Errr but why? In a world with Aliens... Monsters...Thor walking around why is it mutant powers and humanitys reaction to it is 'too much' for people to accept? Why the need to try and control the interpretation of the narrative? Does it cause you that much pain/annoyance? Also it doesn't make any kinda sense to compare some fantastical element in a story with the re world. People asking if black people can shoot lasers are just being obtuse as if there's not dozens of reports of minorities dying when met with the irrational hate and fear of majority. If you saw a lil girl reading a wonder woman comic would you slap it outta her hand cause she's not a demigod with a magic lasso

Actually humanity does have a negative view of aliens as the Carnage series showed and Captain Marvel that humans also have a negative view of aliens. It is irrational to hate and fear all mutants, but is it really irrational to be nervous and scared when the power manifestation is so random. Like in X-force KO stated the baby Max almost took out a whole city block. Being able to have precogs predict such occurrences could help in lessening the fear, but it’s not really surprising to be nervous about such random events. Wonder Woman is a powerful woman anyone can look up to and prove a woman can throw down like any man soo what was your point with the Wonder Woman thing?

I meeeean don't the Avengers still rock with The Pretender?
Soooo

She is the Redeemer now and seems close to Exodus sooo…

[bat39]

They really love to try it. I'm sorry civil rights themes make some of y'all uncomfortable but X-Men has always been about them. So why are you here?

Can't speak for others, but personally, civil rights themes don't make me uncomfortable at all, be it with the X-men franchise or elsewhere. But to claim that the X-men franchise has always been about them, or is solely about them is a misconception.

The foundational conceit of the X-men mythos is that a segment of the population spontaneously manifest extraordinary abilities, are known as 'mutants', and are possible ''the next stage in human evolution''. This is the sandbox that Stan Lee and Jack Kirby created back in 1963.

A wide range of stories can be told with the setting, and starting from the 70's ''All New All Different'' revamp and heading into the Claremont era, the idea that the human-mutant conflict can serve as a metaphor for the discrimination and oppression faced by minority groups (aka the ''mutant metaphor'') became a theme that writers began to explore. But it was by no means the only kind of story that could be told with the X-men. If you look at some of the most iconic X-men stories, you have a story like Days of Future Past which does make use of the mutant metaphor by explicitly invoking Holocaust imagery and the possibility of systemic racism and persecution with the Mutant Registration Act. And you also have a story like The Dark Phoenix Saga which has next to nothing to do with the mutant metaphor and is a high-stakes cosmic story with a strong personal and emotional aspect.

The whole Krakoa era, to me, is basically Hickman and other writers returning to the foundational conceit of the franchise - that mutants are the next step in human evolution - and looking at it from a bold new perspective which is also a reaction to the mutant metaphor. What happens if this species/group/race (however you classify mutants) of people, who despite their power have faced discrimination and even attempted genocide at the hands of baseline humans, get together as a group, own their status as the next step of human evolution, and form a new society of their own that tips the global power balance completely?

Now, the Krakoa story will be judged on its merits by each and every reader, and by Marvel itself, but I think it's Hickman and the other writers have the freedom to do this story, even if it doesn't fit the ''mutant metaphor'' of a status quo where mutants are perpetually discriminated against by human society and have to fight for their civil rights.

As for why I'm here? I'm here because I love the X-men as characters and as a franchise, and have done so since I was a kid. I love the action, the storytelling and this universe than Lee/Kirby and generations of creators since then have built and nourished. My engagement with this franchise is not restricted to a particular aspect of it, and I do not judge every development in the franchise relative to that particular aspect. If your specific interest in the X-men is because of the mutant metaphor, then I respect that. I just consume X-men media through a different lens.

[U.N. Owen]

Time also hasn't been kind to the X-Men when it comes to real world minorities. While things got better over time, you still see the scar of white people writing minorities and totally making real minorities laugh. Xi'an Coy Manh is a major example with only one name as a valid Vietnamese word. Seriously, her name and backstory can get downright hilarious to people reading it.

[The Kid]

The Avengers are far better when it comes to representing stories of marginalized characters and heroes. That's not even a debate anymore

[Outburstz]

The Avengers are far better when it comes to representing stories of marginalized characters and heroes. That's not even a debate anymore

I can just hear you laughing as you typed this non sense

[The Kid]

I can just hear you laughing as you typed this non sense

Nah why would I? It ain't funny

[Kingdom X]

The Avengers are far better when it comes to representing stories of marginalized characters and heroes. That's not even a debate anymore

Can you provide a couple of examples? Not being combative, legitimately interested cause I haven't seen it.

[davetvs]

Can you provide a couple of examples? Not being combative, legitimately interested cause I haven't seen it.

Seconded. Because there's no way you're talking about Jason Aaron's run.

[Saithor]

Can you provide a couple of examples? Not being combative, legitimately interested cause I haven't seen it.

People posted stuff like Echo getting her own mini, Robbie is leading the Avengers Forever Multiverse storyline, Black Panther is currently leading the Avengers. I'd argue Champions probably has it's finger on the pulse of modern social issues just as much if not more than any of the current X-books.

I'd argue it's still a debate but if one side is continuing to argue that every complaint I have is bigot flavored and that I'm too blind to see it, they can argue that side on their own.

[SiycoBatSquirrel]

As for why I'm here? I'm here because I love the X-men as characters and as a franchise, and have done so since I was a kid. I love the action, the storytelling and this universe than Lee/Kirby and generations of creators since then have built and nourished. My engagement with this franchise is not restricted to a particular aspect of it, and I do not judge every development in the franchise relative to that particular aspect. If your specific interest in the X-men is because of the mutant metaphor, then I respect that. I just consume X-men media through a different lens.

This really need not to be said at all because it's a free internet, free forum, free speech. Anybody with a problem can go log out and take a walk.
We talking comics, not politics. It's suppose to relieve stress, not elevate it.