The problems with the ''mutant metaphor''

[bat39]

If it's about policy, then the Hesiod Protocol, is the Quiet Council policy towards Artificial Intelligence. Under these protocol, no A.I is allowed to flourish. Anyone who follows this protocol, is a bigot. Because despite what the bigots might say, the A.I Machines are alive, they're people, just like Humans and Mutants (#machinelivesmatter).

Artificial Intelligence is not an invention, its a discovery. Xavier did not invent Danger, he discovered her, and then enslaved her, deprived her of her freedom, because the founder of Krakoa is a bigot. But there appears to be more to that story than originally thought. Thanks to the Moira retcon, while he was busy enslaving Danger, he knew that Artificial Intelligence bought Humans time. Time to adapt and evolve into Post-Humanity. And given how evolution works in the Marvel Universe, the arrival of Post-Humanity would trigger the Extinction Gene in Mutants, which means game over for Mutants. The purpose of Krakoa is then, to buy Mutants time, in the same way that A.I bought Humans time. Or maybe Krakoa is just metaphor for Israel.

Machines, sooner or later will become sentient, it's inevitable. And Mutants, following the Hesiod Protocol, are determined to not let them be, to become something more, to flourish, they will eradicate A.I from the Sol System. How do you eradicate A.I from the Sol System without taking out the good with the bad?. Not that it would make a difference to bigots, to them, they're not people, they are not alive.

The Mutants already eradicated A.I from the Sol System in one of Moira's timeline, the timeline in which they won, timeline 10a. But, how did they win?. Did they do so by following the dream of peaceful coexistence, as some people who un ironically stan an ethnostate, seemed to think they're still following, or did they continue the cycle of violence by committing genocide. Given that the cycle of violence has spilled into the current time, which is 10b, i'm guessing the cycle of violence. This is the path that this policy is taking them, in timelines 10a and 10b, and the difference is that Orchis exist in 10b, to prevent what happened in 10a from occuring again.

Hickman seems to be a fan of Dune, and it looks like he took a page out of Dune and had the Mutants in timeline 10a, go on a Jihad against Thinking Machines, of biblical proportions. And if it was anything like Dune, by the time its over, you would not be able to find a calculator. Which is why Dune takes place in a desert planet, called "Arrakis", which is the only source of the Spice Melange. The thing that makes space travel possible because they don't have computers to help them navigate. Thats how fanatical, fictional people can get against machines, are Mutants going to become as fanatical with their anti-machines policies?. Imagine the Modern Age, but without computers, it would set humanity back. Good for Mutants, bad for Humans and Machines.

A clever thing that Hickman did is that he used the fight between Humans and Mutants as a distraction, from the persecution of A.I by Mutants. Mutants are doing onto others what was done onto them, but its fine, because unlike the Bronze Age, its not Humans this time. Its Machines. They are not persecuting anyone, because they are not people, they are not killing anyone, because they are not alive /s. It just flies under the radar, i wonder why. I wonder how does that fit with the metaphor.

Krakoa has allowed Mutants to create their own culture, their own language, and way of life that is alien to Humans. They look forward to the extinction of Humans, so that they can replace them, their cultures, their languages, their way of life. Humans, of course don't want to be replaced, naturally, they seek to preserve they cultures, languages and way of life, just like Mutants. Humans kill Mutants because they fear being replaced, Mutants kill A.I because they fear being replaced. A.I are caught in the middle hating both, one for using them as tools, the other for killing them without remorse. Fear breeds hatred, and in this cycle of violence no one is innocent, there's plenty of bigotry, racism and persecution to go around, from the Bronze Age to the future and outside of time and space. But if you point out that Mutants are also engaging in this, suddenly your the bigot, your the racist. I wonder why?. When the whole point of Inferno, is that despite their rhetoric, Mutants are no better than Humans.

I've seen people turn themselves into pretzels trying to justify, how a bigot like Xavier is entitled to go into someone's home, betray their trust and violate their mind, because they dared to create a device that cloaks Mutants, but somehow, someway could be used against Mutants. Just the mere possibility is enough to justify violating their mind. Meanwhile Xavier has no problem having a computer virus created, whose sole pupose to exist, is to kill A.I, and has being used to kill them. Because when Mutants do it, its fine apparently. I wonder, if these people will turn around and claim that A.I, are now entitled to go to the home of Mutants and delete that computer virus.

I wonder if you change the words from Artificial Intelligence to Human, and computer virus to biological virus, whose sole purpose is to kill Humans, so that Humanity is not allowed to flourish. Would make it too obvious?, too close for comfort?, too relatable?.

Besides the Anti-A.i policy of Krakoa, which parallel Anti-Mutant policies of Humans. Theres also the resurrection protocols. Because Krakoa is an ethnostate, the minorities that are allowed to live there, in this case Humans, are basicly second class citizens. The State does not grant them the same rights and privileges as it does to Mutants. If you as a Human went to live to Krakoa, with your Mutant significant other and something happens and they die. They can be brought back as many times as neceserary, but not you, not even once. Because you (to flip the metaphor around), you have the wrong skin color. Because to the State, the life of a Human is worth less, than that of a Mutant. They see Humans as a dying people, which they seek to replace, the last thing they want to do, is share immortality with the people they want to replace.


I don't get tired of being called a bigot by people incapable of criticizing Krakao, because if you criticize Krakao you're a bigot. They are in a prison of their own making. I do wonder if the reason they tell others not to read the books, is because they want to control the narrative, after all, can't talk about a book you've never read.

I think the human-mutant-AI war you've described is a war that's virtually happening at an evolutionary scale. It's an inter-species war which has transcended any notions of bigotry, prejudice, and discrimination, because the stakes now are the survival and eventual dominance of a (sub)species rather than the question of whether two 'races' can peacefully co-exist or have to segregate.

That's my point actually...that the Krakoa era, however you may feel about the story, tape into the ''mutants as the next stage of human evolution'' idea rather than any metaphor for marginalization and discrimination. The situation has escalated to a point where two species are basically at war for their own survival and eventual dominance...Xavier's dream in this context is a distant, well, dream.

[Zelena]

Hickman seems to be a fan of Dune, and it looks like he took a page out of Dune and had the Mutants in timeline 10a, go on a Jihad against Thinking Machines, of biblical proportions. And if it was anything like Dune, by the time its over, you would not be able to find a calculator. Which is why Dune takes place in a desert planet, called "Arrakis", which is the only source of the Spice Melange. The thing that makes space travel possible because they don't have computers to help them navigate. Thats how fanatical, fictional people can get against machines, are Mutants going to become as fanatical with their anti-machines policies?. Imagine the Modern Age, but without computers, it would set humanity back. Good for Mutants, bad for Humans and Machines.

Frank Herbert created a believable universe in a book. And from scratch… Hickman took characters that already had history to fit into a story that doesn’t have the same depth as Dune, that isn’t well thought. He didn’t care to harm the continuity by doing so. Doing like Frank Herbert? It’s so pretentious…

[Blind Target]

While I don't necessarily agree with your overall outlook, what will happen when a human significant other of a mutant dies is a valid question.

Careful there....you are showing standards. This books are about people who serve as a metaphor, for marginalized minorities. You can't expect them to treat everyone equal under the law, they are not superheroes, you know /s.

[Zelena]

While I don't necessarily agree with your overall outlook, what will happen when a human significant other of a mutant dies is a valid question.

Careful there....you are showing standards. This books are about people who serve as a metaphor, for marginalized minorities. You can't expect them to treat everyone equal under the law, they are not superheroes, you know /s.

Putting their characters in front of dilemmas is what comic authors do, though… Showing where their beliefs lead them… Exploring their feelings…

“What do prefer, Kang, life for your lost love or death for the Avengers?” I still remember it, years later…

[Outburstz]

I prefer to not be that uncharitable with my assumptions.

While I don't necessarily agree with your overall outlook, what will happen when a human significant other of a mutant dies is a valid question.

This has already been addressed. I forgot the data page but one mutant was very upset that their human wife wouldn't be brought back because she wasn't a mutant. It was pretty cut and dry that resurrection is for mutants.

However we saw that if you know the right people even if you are not a mutant you will be brought back >_> like Wanda. It really is up to the Five

So short answer is no but some break the rules.

[Covetous_One]

This has already been addressed. I forgot the data page but one mutant was very upset that their human wife wouldn't be brought back because she wasn't a mutant. It was pretty cut and dry that resurrection is for mutants.

However we saw that if you know the right people even if you are not a mutant you will be brought back >_> like Wanda. It really is up to the Five

So short answer is no but some break the rules.

That was only because there where old backups of Wanda so it only could apply to a human being resurrected with memories from their time with their spouse to make the person’s mind from scratch and even then they really aren’t themself. The mutant’s wife was killed by Apocalypse and it was his ex wife.

[Outburstz]

That was only because there where old backups of Wanda so it only could apply to a human being resurrected with memories from their time with their spouse to make the person’s mind from scratch and even then they really aren’t themself. The mutant’s wife was killed by Apocalypse and it was his ex wife.

Are you saying that Cerebro doesn't have human minds on file or only those that were believed to be mutants in the past like Cloak and Dagger for example

[LordUltimus]

Are you saying that Cerebro doesn't have human minds on file or only those that were believed to be mutants in the past like Cloak and Dagger for example

...Yes? Cerebro is for mutants.

[Covetous_One]

Are you saying that Cerebro doesn't have human minds on file or only those that were believed to be mutants in the past like Cloak and Dagger for example

Yeah, Cerebro only have mutant minds saved or those who fooled Cerebro. No unaltered human has files. So those who have human spouses like Northstar or have human children like Jubilee and the rare case of a mutant having human children will have to live with the fact that their loved ones ain’t coming back. I was theoretically speaking that the only way that human could possibly be brought back was by making a mind from scratch by using memories from the mutant spouse to recreate who that person is, that humans mind would still be incomplete since other crucial moments would be missing.

[Omega Alpha]

If it's about policy, then the Hesiod Protocol, is the Quiet Council policy towards Artificial Intelligence. Under these protocol, no A.I is allowed to flourish. Anyone who follows this protocol, is a bigot. Because despite what the bigots might say, the A.I Machines are alive, they're people, just like Humans and Mutants (#machinelivesmatter).

Artificial Intelligence is not an invention, its a discovery. Xavier did not invent Danger, he discovered her, and then enslaved her, deprived her of her freedom, because the founder of Krakoa is a bigot. But there appears to be more to that story than originally thought. Thanks to the Moira retcon, while he was busy enslaving Danger, he knew that Artificial Intelligence bought Humans time. Time to adapt and evolve into Post-Humanity. And given how evolution works in the Marvel Universe, the arrival of Post-Humanity would trigger the Extinction Gene in Mutants, which means game over for Mutants. The purpose of Krakoa is then, to buy Mutants time, in the same way that A.I bought Humans time. Or maybe Krakoa is just metaphor for Israel.

Machines, sooner or later will become sentient, it's inevitable. And Mutants, following the Hesiod Protocol, are determined to not let them be, to become something more, to flourish, they will eradicate A.I from the Sol System. How do you eradicate A.I from the Sol System without taking out the good with the bad?. Not that it would make a difference to bigots, to them, they're not people, they are not alive.

The Mutants already eradicated A.I from the Sol System in one of Moira's timeline, the timeline in which they won, timeline 10a. But, how did they win?. Did they do so by following the dream of peaceful coexistence, as some people who un ironically stan an ethnostate, seemed to think they're still following, or did they continue the cycle of violence by committing genocide. Given that the cycle of violence has spilled into the current time, which is 10b, i'm guessing the cycle of violence. This is the path that this policy is taking them, in timelines 10a and 10b, and the difference is that Orchis exist in 10b, to prevent what happened in 10a from occuring again.

Hickman seems to be a fan of Dune, and it looks like he took a page out of Dune and had the Mutants in timeline 10a, go on a Jihad against Thinking Machines, of biblical proportions. And if it was anything like Dune, by the time its over, you would not be able to find a calculator. Which is why Dune takes place in a desert planet, called "Arrakis", which is the only source of the Spice Melange. The thing that makes space travel possible because they don't have computers to help them navigate. Thats how fanatical, fictional people can get against machines, are Mutants going to become as fanatical with their anti-machines policies?. Imagine the Modern Age, but without computers, it would set humanity back. Good for Mutants, bad for Humans and Machines.

A clever thing that Hickman did is that he used the fight between Humans and Mutants as a distraction, from the persecution of A.I by Mutants. Mutants are doing onto others what was done onto them, but its fine, because unlike the Bronze Age, its not Humans this time. Its Machines. They are not persecuting anyone, because they are not people, they are not killing anyone, because they are not alive /s. It just flies under the radar, i wonder why. I wonder how does that fit with the metaphor.

Krakoa has allowed Mutants to create their own culture, their own language, and way of life that is alien to Humans. They look forward to the extinction of Humans, so that they can replace them, their cultures, their languages, their way of life. Humans, of course don't want to be replaced, naturally, they seek to preserve they cultures, languages and way of life, just like Mutants. Humans kill Mutants because they fear being replaced, Mutants kill A.I because they fear being replaced. A.I are caught in the middle hating both, one for using them as tools, the other for killing them without remorse. Fear breeds hatred, and in this cycle of violence no one is innocent, there's plenty of bigotry, racism and persecution to go around, from the Bronze Age to the future and outside of time and space. But if you point out that Mutants are also engaging in this, suddenly your the bigot, your the racist. I wonder why?. When the whole point of Inferno, is that despite their rhetoric, Mutants are no better than Humans.

I've seen people turn themselves into pretzels trying to justify, how a bigot like Xavier is entitled to go into someone's home, betray their trust and violate their mind, because they dared to create a device that cloaks Mutants, but somehow, someway could be used against Mutants. Just the mere possibility is enough to justify violating their mind. Meanwhile Xavier has no problem having a computer virus created, whose sole pupose to exist, is to kill A.I, and has being used to kill them. Because when Mutants do it, its fine apparently. I wonder, if these people will turn around and claim that A.I, are now entitled to go to the home of Mutants and delete that computer virus.

I wonder if you change the words from Artificial Intelligence to Human, and computer virus to biological virus, whose sole purpose is to kill Humans, so that Humanity is not allowed to flourish. Would make it too obvious?, too close for comfort?, too relatable?.

Besides the Anti-A.i policy of Krakoa, which parallel Anti-Mutant policies of Humans. Theres also the resurrection protocols. Because Krakoa is an ethnostate, the minorities that are allowed to live there, in this case Humans, are basicly second class citizens. The State does not grant them the same rights and privileges as it does to Mutants. If you as a Human went to live to Krakoa, with your Mutant significant other and something happens and they die. They can be brought back as many times as neceserary, but not you, not even once. Because you (to flip the metaphor around), you have the wrong skin color. Because to the State, the life of a Human is worth less, than that of a Mutant. They see Humans as a dying people, which they seek to replace, the last thing they want to do, is share immortality with the people they want to replace.


I don't get tired of being called a bigot by people incapable of criticizing Krakao, because if you criticize Krakao you're a bigot. They are in a prison of their own making. I do wonder if the reason they tell others not to read the books, is because they want to control the narrative, after all, can't talk about a book you've never read.

Nothing in Inferno indicates all AI was destroyed and abolished from the universe, just that there was a war and the side Karima was on lost. And Karima's side wanted to commit genocide. Moreover, the reason humans can't be resurrected is that mutants don't have the technology to do so, there's no law against it- they just can't do it, at least not yet. Once again, people settle on a headcanon, then complain about things that happened in that headcanon and not actual stories.

[LordUltimus]

Nothing in Inferno indicates all AI was destroyed and abolished from the universe, just that there was a war and the side Karima was on lost. And Karima's side wanted to commit genocide. Moreover, the reason humans can't be resurrected is that mutants don't have the technology to do so, there's no law against it- they just can't do it, at least not yet. Once again, people settle on a headcanon, then complain about things that happened in that headcanon and not actual stories.

They had the capacity to resurrect Wanda, who is still a human.

[Omega Alpha]

They had the capacity to resurrect Wanda, who is still a human.

Because she was recorded as a mutant for some time, she had no memory of anything from Disassembled forward at least.

[LordUltimus]

Because she was recorded as a mutant for some time, she had no memory of anything from Disassembled forward at least.

If she was recorded as a mutant despite being a human, why can't that happen elsewhere?

[Grunty]

This has already been addressed. I forgot the data page but one mutant was very upset that their human wife wouldn't be brought back because she wasn't a mutant. It was pretty cut and dry that resurrection is for mutants.

However we saw that if you know the right people even if you are not a mutant you will be brought back >_> like Wanda. It really is up to the Five

So short answer is no but some break the rules.

The five have nothing to do with it. Give them a proper DNA sample and they make you a new body of a person, mutant, normal human, mutate, alien It's just cloning via super powers rather than mechanic or biological technology.

The key point is the quality of the DNA sample, since Sinister has perfected his method of obtaining and storing them and the memory recording via Cerebro which Xavier has explicitly programmed to constantly scan and record the minds of mutants (and by accident anyone who has mental signatures of mutants).

So it all comes down to reserving this clone and replace method for mutants by choice rather than limitations. Which actualy makes a lot of sense given what a break of taboos it is.

Cloning tech to allow people to cheat death has become dime a dozen in the Marvel universe, but until Hickman's reinvention of the X-men, they could have been dismissed in universe as being too expensive, risky or shady to be mass marketed.
Heroic scientist who could do it, left it as emergency last ditch effort option. Villian organizations and scientist would constantly missuse it or create it in such a flawed way that only fools would depend on it.

But here we have mutants casualy depend on it and allready proclaiming themself immortal because of it (nevermind that they are still utterly mortal without the machines). How will the rest of the humanity react to the idea that not only is this ressurective cloning possible but could also be dirt cheap?
It would create a sudden massive demand.

Various groups and organizations, both shady or legal, who allready have the technology, can gets their hands on it, or were working on it allready, will try to bank on it creating a competitive market. Ethical and moral questions will be talked away by people who will point at sudden public demand and how Krakoa is doing it for their own citizen and for free.
Soon cloning becomes commonplace and memory storage services will shoot up like mushrooms. It will be a cyberpunk world in no time.

And besides the disasterous effect it will have on societies, cultures and economic inequality, it will ultimately also affect the military industrial complex, which in turn will also greatly endanger mutants all over again.

So as much as it can look like the mutants feel entitled to keep the technology a secret and the hubris of breaking the mass cloning taboo in first place, it's better for the world if they keep it that way.

[king of hybrids]

While I have serious reservations about the known execution of the Hesiod protocols; people are taking Omega (who is wearing 616’s Karima’s skin) as gospel here

Considering extracting OG Nimrod’s consciousness from Bastion would probably massively accelerate machine evolution by virtue of no longer being anti-mutant