The problems with the ''mutant metaphor''

[Saithor]

Im not sure how...it's a StrawMan
Some may interpret this as being extremely frustrated and afraid minorities might somehow think they're equal or b-b-better than their previous stations in life


Why this need to control the interpretation?

Bruh it seems the only people proclaiming Mutants as Superior to humans are you qnxa few folks in this thread lol

Characters in the comics have literally talked about how mutants can build more stable societies unlike those silly humans, how certain human thoughts and emotions are silly and dumb, "We are your new gods" etc. It's literally in the text. Their literal future is about how they are an evolution of humanity and are destined to replace them. That's been a major thing since Morrison at least.

Also, if you're going to accuse us of being bigots, just do it and stop trying to force what I assume is some weird amalgation of Qanon and some other word?

Edit: Seriously, is QNXA some kind of slang or shorthand because all google turns up is some weight loss pill?

[Covetous_One]

Im not sure how...it's a StrawMan
Some may interpret this as being extremely frustrated and afraid minorities might somehow think they're equal or b-b-better than their previous stations in life


Why this need to control the interpretation?

Bruh it seems the only people proclaiming Mutants as Superior to humans are you qnxa few folks in this thread lol

Including the classical characters: Magneto, Apocalypse, Exodus, Cortez, Sinister(even though he isn’t born one)
New additions: Any mutant on Krakoa who has used the word human to view some certain concepts as inferior or disgusting.

[jmc247]

Including the classical characters: Magneto, Apocalypse, Exodus, Cortez, Sinister(even though he isn’t born one)
New additions: Any mutant on Krakoa who has used the word human to view some certain concepts as inferior or disgusting.

Most of the former Acolytes and Brotherhood members including all of Magneto’s kids at one point or another have voiced bigotry towards humanity pre-Krakoa, but the difference is past eras attempted to create separate factions to present different ideologies. Krakoa is one faction with one ideology at this point.

There may down the line be a Summers faction with its own ideology and a House of M faction with its own ideology an Frost faction you get the picture, but right now the island isn’t factionalized.

[Saithor]

Most of the former Acolytes and Brotherhood members including all of Magneto’s kids at one point or another have voiced bigotry towards humanity pre-Krakoa, but the difference is past eras attempted to create separate factions to present different ideologies. Krakoa is one faction with one ideology at this point.

There may down the line be a Summers faction with its own ideology and a House of M faction with its own ideology an Frost faction you get the picture, but right now the island isn’t factionalized.

It is factionalized but what we usually see of it is limited to QC members getting into slap fights with each other typically. We do know that there is a Summers faction forming and that Morlocks at minimum have their own group.

[davetvs]

Im not sure how...it's a StrawMan
Why this need to control the interpretation?

Why, indeed.

[jmc247]

It is factionalized but what we usually see of it is limited to QC members getting into slap fights with each other typically. We do know that there is a Summers faction forming and that Morlocks at minimum have their own group.

I don’t disagree, what I was saying was you don’t see the factions inside the council spread out into the rest of Krakoan society as tends to happen in the real world.

It might be heading that way. We will see.

[Saithor]

I don’t disagree, what I was saying was you don’t see the factions inside the council spread out into the rest of Krakoan society as tends to happen in the real world.

It's because they've essentially cut as much as they can between the governing body and the populace itself, probably to avoid having to deal with the day to day minutia of actual governance in favor of personal drama between the council members instead as we rarely see some members of the council do any governing at all really. If this was a realistic nation you would have segments of the populace lobbying and trying to make their needs and wants known of the government, conflicting over certain issues and so on, but X-writers have, deliberately I think, done their best to cut any of that out so we can have the personal stuff instead. So things like changes in government are cause less by factional issues and more things like personal drama between Emma and Shaw regarding their history together instead. It's very much an extreme focus on the personal as opposed to the system as a whole. Not necessarily bad but I don't think large factions work with the dynamic they want.

[Rev9]

It is factionalized but what we usually see of it is limited to QC members getting into slap fights with each other typically. We do know that there is a Summers faction forming and that Morlocks at minimum have their own group.

I think it's too early to call Summers' suspicion or wariness a faction. He knows Krakoa and mutantdom is priority number one.Sure he can object to a QC decision maybe even give them a mouthful as X-men captain but he has to have a genuine reason to call for mutiny or rebellion and I don't think mind wiping Ben is pretext enough. In the future it could happen, but I think it's not on the cards yet.To me the key book will be IXM ,because that will reveal what the QC really think about Krakoa's long term goals and chances.

[Outburstz]

Do you guys seriously not understand the full vastness of how badly the human societies have been to mutants. I'm not even talking about just super villains. Human governments passing laws to oppress mutants, Doctors force aborting mutants, scientist constantly looking for a mutant cure, mobs of people protesting your existence, public lynchings and attacks, being kicked out of homes, Kidnappings, organ harvesting , forced servitude, constant bad media to demonize mutants, and interment camps.

You would be hard press to find any aspect of human society that hasn't at one point been touched by anti mutant actions. Compare that to Krakoa it's night and day. Also that doesn't mean all humans

But wait Outburstz what about *insert mutant super villians* and yes there have been bad mutants and yet they don't out number human villains or anti mutant people with power (both political and super powers). They also must abide by Krakoa laws or they will be dealt with.

Saying that the Krakoa society they are building is better than the human ones for mutants is very much true. Now some mutants may want other things which is fine but let's stop pretending that Krakoa is a NWO mutant supremist island plotting the destruction of humans.

[Saithor]

Do you guys seriously not understand the full vastness of how badly the human societies have been to mutants. I'm not even talking about just super villains. Human governments passing laws to oppress mutants, Doctors force aborting mutants, scientist constantly looking for a mutant cure, mobs of people protesting your existence, public lynchings and attacks, being kicked out of homes, Kidnappings, organ harvesting , forced servitude, constant bad media to demonize mutants, and interment camps.

You would be hard press to find any aspect of human society that hasn't at one point been touched by anti mutant actions. Compare that to Krakoa it's night and day. Also that doesn't mean all humans

But wait Outburstz what about *insert mutant super villians* and yes there have been bad mutants and yet they don't out number human villains or anti mutant people with power (both political and super powers). They also must abide by Krakoa laws or they will be dealt with.

Saying that the Krakoa society they are building is better than the human ones for mutants is very much true. Now some mutants may want other things which is fine but let's stop pretending that Krakoa is a NWO mutant supremist island plotting the destruction of humans.

Way to miss the point entirely. Again. Dani. New Mutants #1. Character who has always been proud of her Native heritage is suddenly talking about how much better Mutant ideals and ideologies are than human ones because they'll actually lead to a better and more stable society? Do you not get how dumb it is to have a native american character saying what is a literal right wing talking point about actual native american culture? How stupid it is to say things that apply to actual real world minorities in the story?

And I can already hear your counter-rebuttal "Oh, she didn't mean native american specifically, she just meant human society in general". Guess what, that still includes native american cultures, and it's not some statement of "Society on Krakoa is better for mutants specifically" It's "Krakoan society is better than all human ones"

And we got the same stuff with Synch and his thoughts about Humans in the vault arc. Or Magneto declaring that Mutants will be humanity's new gods.

No Krakoa is not some NWO mutant supremacist island, but I'm getting real sick of this mentality where we have to pretend it's some great utopia while anyone who pokes holes in it or points out it's faults (Which were put in there on purpose!) essentially gets told they're just being a bigot.

[marhawkman]

It's because they've essentially cut as much as they can between the governing body and the populace itself, probably to avoid having to deal with the day to day minutia of actual governance in favor of personal drama between the council members instead as we rarely see some members of the council do any governing at all really. If this was a realistic nation you would have segments of the populace lobbying and trying to make their needs and wants known of the government, conflicting over certain issues and so on, but X-writers have, deliberately I think, done their best to cut any of that out so we can have the personal stuff instead. So things like changes in government are cause less by factional issues and more things like personal drama between Emma and Shaw regarding their history together instead. It's very much an extreme focus on the personal as opposed to the system as a whole. Not necessarily bad but I don't think large factions work with the dynamic they want.

Yeah, this is a GoT style politics where the focus of attention is just the top level leaders... and we don't actually know IF the lower level people actually CARE. Which is to a large part because you can't write 1000+ characters in a single book. But it also means that the reader doesn't really know what any of them think.

[Covetous_One]

Do you guys seriously not understand the full vastness of how badly the human societies have been to mutants. I'm not even talking about just super villains. Human governments passing laws to oppress mutants, Doctors force aborting mutants, scientist constantly looking for a mutant cure, mobs of people protesting your existence, public lynchings and attacks, being kicked out of homes, Kidnappings, organ harvesting , forced servitude, constant bad media to demonize mutants, and interment camps.

You would be hard press to find any aspect of human society that hasn't at one point been touched by anti mutant actions. Compare that to Krakoa it's night and day. Also that doesn't mean all humans

But wait Outburstz what about *insert mutant super villians* and yes there have been bad mutants and yet they don't out number human villains or anti mutant people with power (both political and super powers). They also must abide by Krakoa laws or they will be dealt with.

Saying that the Krakoa society they are building is better than the human ones for mutants is very much true. Now some mutants may want other things which is fine but let's stop pretending that Krakoa is a NWO mutant supremist island plotting the destruction of humans.

Yet the time isn’t being taken to make that distinction. The characters use the word human as a term for what is perceived as inferior concepts. That kind of talk isn’t good in any society.

[Outburstz]

Way to miss the point entirely. Again. Dani. New Mutants #1. Character who has always been proud of her Native heritage is suddenly talking about how much better Mutant ideals and ideologies are than human ones because they'll actually lead to a better and more stable society? Do you not get how dumb it is to have a native american character saying what is a literal right wing talking point about actual native american culture? How stupid it is to say things that apply to actual real world minorities in the story?

And I can already hear your counter-rebuttal "Oh, she didn't mean native american specifically, she just meant human society in general". Guess what, that still includes native american cultures, and it's not some statement of "Society on Krakoa is better for mutants specifically" It's "Krakoan society is better than all human ones"

And we got the same stuff with Synch and his thoughts about Humans in the vault arc. Or Magneto declaring that Mutants will be humanity's new gods.

Krakoa for mutants is better for mutants then most human ones. How is this even an argument? The only reason you can't say all is because different mutants might want different things. She was clearly talking to her fellow mutant excited that they were going to make the best society for mutants not repeating the same mistakes that human societies have made towards each other. That was the whole point of Krakoa. Her making that statement was not her taking a shot at her Native American side which was further proven by her natives voices line of not needing to choose between the two. She is mutant and native american thus wanting the best for both. However only mutants now united are able to make and create a land of their own while there are native americans who still suffer on reservations because of other humans.

No Krakoa is not some NWO mutant supremacist island, but I'm getting real sick of this mentality where we have to pretend it's some great utopia while anyone who pokes holes in it or points out it's faults (Which were put in there on purpose!) essentially gets told they're just being a bigot.

No one ever said Krakoa was perfect because it was never meant to be. It was made to keep mutants safe and thrive but it was clear from the start that they had to make tough choices in order to get there. The problem is you guys are holding Krakoa to some 100% perfect morale super hero standard.

Yet the time isn’t being taken to make that distinction. The characters use the word human as a term for what is perceived as inferior concepts. That kind of talk isn’t good in any society.

Because they are finally free of the human oppression while they are on Krakoa. Compare their life on Krakoa with the stuff going on in human societies I mean come on now.

[davetvs]

They're holding Krakoa to a higher standard than any government that has ever existed on Earth. Try not to take them seriously.

Also, this:

Do you guys seriously not understand the full vastness of how badly the human societies have been to mutants. I'm not even talking about just super villains. Human governments passing laws to oppress mutants, Doctors force aborting mutants, scientist constantly looking for a mutant cure, mobs of people protesting your existence, public lynchings and attacks, being kicked out of homes, Kidnappings, organ harvesting , forced servitude, constant bad media to demonize mutants, and interment camps.

Has also happened to pretty much every ethnic minority group in the US. But tell me again how the minority metaphor is flimsy and doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Lol.

[Zelena]

Yeah, this is a GoT style politics where the focus of attention is just the top level leaders... and we don't actually know IF the lower level people actually CARE. Which is to a large part because you can't write 1000+ characters in a single book. But it also means that the reader doesn't really know what any of them think.

Which is annoying from the point of vue of the narration: if this new ideology that is spreading is polemical, we have a large bunch of people on panels who don’t seem to have any point of view on the subject, who just don’t seem to care… They are just there to fill the panels: “don’t bother us with thinking, we are the plebs of Krakoa.”