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  1. #16
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    When I read this issue I was surprised that this is what they fall out over the QC. Its actually so minor and Scott once tortured a guy to get information when he had Karma in the room. As well as wanted to break Bishops mind to get more information in another instance. Plus he had the Cuckoos on stand by to clean up after X-Force. Any way when I read this I had to face palm...

    Anyway...the QC have a lot more to fall out over then protecting the protocols from their enemies. I'm surprised Xavier didn't get pissed off with them in the first place. Or did Emma smooth everything over so the QC didn't reprimand him
    Its been pretty obvious that Marvel has been trying to walk back Utopia era Scott back to his previous characterization for a while now. How you want to interpret that is up to you, but I spin it as Utopia was never who Scott naturally is, or ever was, it was Who He Had To Be when times were at their darkest. He buried his self doubts and disgust for the larger goal of ensuring there would actually be mutants left to condemn him after he was gone. Now times are nowhere near as dark, and he can be who he wants to be. Well, until his public death, anyways.
    Dark does not mean deep.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    Its been pretty obvious that Marvel has been trying to walk back Utopia era Scott back to his previous characterization for a while now. How you want to interpret that is up to you, but I spin it as Utopia was never who Scott naturally is, or ever was, it was Who He Had To Be when times were at their darkest. He buried his self doubts and disgust for the larger goal of ensuring there would actually be mutants left to condemn him after he was gone. Now times are nowhere near as dark, and he can be who he wants to be. Well, until his public death, anyways.
    This as well. I don't mind Scott trying to be better now that things are better off for mutants, much like how Magneto refuses to just kill Destiny for Moira because they aren't going to be at their worst just because it's convenient. It's at least better than the way Beast went.

  3. #18
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    Its been pretty obvious that Marvel has been trying to walk back Utopia era Scott back to his previous characterization for a while now. How you want to interpret that is up to you, but I spin it as Utopia was never who Scott naturally is, or ever was, it was Who He Had To Be when times were at their darkest. He buried his self doubts and disgust for the larger goal of ensuring there would actually be mutants left to condemn him after he was gone. Now times are nowhere near as dark, and he can be who he wants to be. Well, until his public death, anyways.
    I completely agree. What Scott previously contorted himself into is just...not him. What did you think of the issue and of Scott's portrayal?
    Jean Grey in the words of Walt Whitman, from his masterpiece Leaves of Grass, "Song of Myself" (51 and 52):

    "Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)"

    "Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged, Missing me one place search another, I stop somewhere waiting for you."

  4. #19
    Ultimate Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    Its been pretty obvious that Marvel has been trying to walk back Utopia era Scott back to his previous characterization for a while now. How you want to interpret that is up to you, but I spin it as Utopia was never who Scott naturally is, or ever was, it was Who He Had To Be when times were at their darkest. He buried his self doubts and disgust for the larger goal of ensuring there would actually be mutants left to condemn him after he was gone. Now times are nowhere near as dark, and he can be who he wants to be. Well, until his public death, anyways.
    Should it not be the exact opposite? Our true selves are shown not when things are easy but when we have our backs against the wall.

    Anyway, I hope Cyclops can move on from being Kumbayaclops one day. He hasn't got muchdevelopment these last two years so its probably a product of that too. You can't do anything with a character if no one wants to delve into them. He's gotten a shadow of the attention he had during the Utopia era

  5. #20
    Mighty Member andreikes's Avatar
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    When Cyke finds out the truth about Moira I hope he burns QC

    #cykewasright :s

  6. #21
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    Not impressed.

    Cyclops' death scenes are always underwhelming and he kind of goes out like a punk in them. Also, squeaky clean Scott is coming off as a hypocrite. I realize they don't want radical Scott anymore but can't they find some middle ground besides making him sound like a hypocrite?

    And Laura crying for Scott has been the most story she's gotten that didn't have her as a trophy, so progress?

    Really the only character in this cast that comes off well is Synch.

  7. #22
    Ultimate Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RamaBird View Post
    Not impressed.

    Cyclops' death scenes are always underwhelming and he kind of goes out like a punk in them. Also, squeaky clean Scott is coming off as a hypocrite. I realize they don't want radical Scott anymore but can't they find some middle ground besides making him sound like a hypocrite?

    And Laura crying for Scott has been the most story she's gotten that didn't have her as a trophy, so progress?

    Really the only character in this cast that comes off well is Synch.
    Hopefully Gillen gets to write him.

  8. #23
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    Should it not be the exact opposite? Our true selves are shown not when things are easy but when we have our backs against the wall.

    Anyway, I hope Cyclops can move on from being Kumbayaclops one day. He hasn't got muchdevelopment these last two years so its probably a product of that too. You can't do anything with a character if no one wants to delve into them. He's gotten a shadow of the attention he had during the Utopia era
    I can see where you are coming from, but it wasn't just Scott being up against the wall, it was his entire species. How heroic is it to put being able to sleep at night over everyone else's survival? I'm not sure there is a right answer to that question.

    Personally, I'd prefer a hybrid between Utopia Scott and 90s Scott, with the Kumbaya stuff only being what those closest to him see behind closed doors. But that's just me. Other people probably have different ideas, and crucially, it seems they are making the decisions.
    Dark does not mean deep.

  9. #24
    BANNED Sylarmax's Avatar
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    A boring subject, the only thing I liked was the writing of synch, and well, Sue's theory plus alpha mutants would later be incorporated into the Omega list over the years, it seems a reality that mention that synch is a possible Omega is proof of this, although it was due to an improvement of his powers by the resurrection protocols, that explains why his powers have acted in a stronger way than is remembered.


    Of the frustrating rest, Duggan does not distribute the development time of the entire cast well.

  10. #25
    Ultimate Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    I can see where you are coming from, but it wasn't just Scott being up against the wall, it was his entire species. How heroic is it to put being able to sleep at night over everyone else's survival? I'm not sure there is a right answer to that question.

    Personally, I'd prefer a hybrid between Utopia Scott and 90s Scott, with the Kumbaya stuff only being what those closest to him see behind closed doors. But that's just me. Other people probably have different ideas, and crucially, it seems they are making the decisions.
    He wasn't meant to be a hero though but a leader. And that's the crucial difference with then and now. The premise of Duggans X-Men to show the X-Men as heroes which I suppose is why we won't get that Cyclops in this book. The only thing that's irksome is clumsy decisions like this one are no better then the QCs. While the QC have each other to keep them in check. There are no checks on this team . I mean Cyclops died before he could resolve his own mess. So I presume thats why it was done by the QC. He also probably should have consulted them on the massive security problem to Krakoa and not kept it to himself which is very unlike him as well.

  11. #26
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exodus View Post
    I hope we will get more insight why Jean and Scott distanced themselves from the Quiet Council in the first place. What is their real agenda forming the X-Men? Only Krakoa marketing and superheroics or is it maybe more complex than that? Do they have their own agenda for Krakoa?
    Jean distanced herself from the QC when she was forced to make an ultimatum between fighting alongside mutants during X of Swords and remaining a QC member. Moreover, we got some insight into Jean and Scott's further distancing from the QC and the formation of the new team during Hickman's X-Men, in issue #16:



    Last edited by Mercury; 01-26-2022 at 08:12 AM.
    Jean Grey in the words of Walt Whitman, from his masterpiece Leaves of Grass, "Song of Myself" (51 and 52):

    "Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)"

    "Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged, Missing me one place search another, I stop somewhere waiting for you."

  12. #27
    Astonishing Member Steroid's Avatar
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    My favorite issue of this run so far and that Synch feat put a big smile on my face.

  13. #28
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steroid View Post
    My favorite issue of this run so far and that Synch feat put a big smile on my face.
    Same. This is the single best issue of this run so far IMO.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    When I read this issue I was surprised that this is what they fall out over the QC. Its actually so minor and Scott once tortured a guy to get information when he had Karma in the room. As well as wanted to break Bishops mind to get more information in another instance. Plus he had the Cuckoos on stand by to clean up after X-Force. Any way when I read this I had to face palm...

    Anyway...the QC have a lot more to fall out over then protecting the protocols from their enemies. I'm surprised Xavier didn't get pissed off with them in the first place. Or did Emma smooth everything over so the QC didn't reprimand him
    Yeah great issue but every time I read from when it was leaked a while back to today it gets a bit worse

    Scott has multiple times done stuff that dwarfs this, it's like Logan getting mad because someone killed a bad guy(not in Krakoa era, I mean w/ no "kill no man" law).

    Still a step up from before but setting the bar low and then raising it to what it should always be isn't as impressive in retrospect.This should be the normal quality w/ a few issues going above this

    The art on the other hand is fantastic as always

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post
    I'm glad Duggan gave Laura at least a sprinkle of personality here. Larraz and Gracia knocked it out of the park with every page.
    Laura has had plenty of personality under Duggan. The problem from the start has been that it hasn't been her own.

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