Page 6 of 8 FirstFirst ... 2345678 LastLast
Results 76 to 90 of 110
  1. #76
    Ultimate Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    11,208

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BobbysWorld View Post
    This is probably a minor nitpick, but because Orlando DOES know his X-lore so well in most respects, I admit to being a tad disappointed that he had a Morlock, Carver, voicing the same stuff writers have had Morlocks voicing about other mutants for decades, forgetting their origins.....

    Like, its just kinda gah that writers always have Morlocks talk about how they're rejects even among mutant society for being the undesirables, not 'pretty mutants' etc....

    Which not only ignores that like, mutants like Glob Herman have been mainstays among the X-Men and their communities for a looooong time, but more than that.....

    The Morlocks were NOT originally a collection of mutants who banded together because they were the ugly, unwanted mutants. Most of their 'ugly appearances' are the result of MASQUE'S INITIATION of them, NOT their own mutations! Just like he gave Callisto tentacles for a number of years, that had nothing to do with her original powerset. The Morlocks in their earliest appearances DELIBERATELY altered themselves to fall outside the generally accepted standards of beauty or humanity, as symbols of THEIR rejection of humanity and desire to make a culture and community of their own that didn't cater to humanity's priorities or general mindsets. Like, one of the key reasons Skids stood out among the original Morlocks was that yes, she was one of the 'pretty mutants' - but her fellow Morlocks didn't RESENT her for that, hell, they tended to ostracize her because she COULDN'T embody the willful rejection of human norms that the rest of them embraced....because her force field power meant that Masque physically couldn't lay his hands on her and make changes to her body and appearance the way he did the rest of them.

    And when the Morlock Massacre happened, it wasn't because Morlocks were an eyesore or anything like some writers have characterized them as being after the fact.....Sinister had the original Marauders wipe them out not because he gave a shit what they looked like, but because he'd noted that their powers showed signs of being meddled with or experimented on with techniques he recognized from his own work, and he was like.....offended because he's literally just like that. It was implied for a long time that the experimentation had something to do with Apocalypse, whose technology and experiments were the basis of most of Sinister's own science and techniques.....with Apocalypse clearly having had some connection to or interest in the Morlocks at some point, given that his Horseman Famine was originally a Morlock, and later he made Caliban a Horseman too (and that alone should be a HUGE CLUE for most writers that they're looking at the Morlocks all wrong - why would the very same writers who created BOTH the Morlocks AND Apocalypse, have the dude who's entire SPIEL is survival of the fittest and only uplifting the truly strong....like....pick a Morlock to be one of his iconic vanguard if Morlocks were actually supposed to be viewed as the dregs of mutant society by other mutants?)

    And of course then ultimately after the original Age of Apocalypse event, they revealed that the Sugar Man from that reality had wound up in 616 twenty years in the past and he'd been the one to experiment on the Morlocks with techniques he'd learned from the AOA Sinister. But the point remains. Morlocks were never ostracized by the rest of mutants for not being on the same level as the 'pretty, powerful mutants.' Morlocks were originally the ones pointing out nah dudes, WE'RE rejecting YOU, on account of we think you're too preoccupied with trying to be accepted and respected by humanity and we don't vibe with that.

    But my point just being.....there's a definite irony in current writers holding up Morlocks as proof of Krakoa's flaws by saying Krakoa doesn't want them and they're not pretty or powerful or useful enough to be accepted there, when not only are there already tons of mutants on Krakoa who put the lie to that.....the bigger irony is that the Morlocks, rather than being the lowest hierarchy of mutantdom, were originally depicted as the spiritial pre-cursors of the modern Krakoa, mutants who weren't outcast by society, but who voluntarily REMOVED THEMSELVES from society, mutants who weren't FORCED to live in the dark because they were hideous, but rather used a single mutant's power - Masque - to MAKE themselves visible standouts from human society who said they'd rather be what humans judged as hideous, and live where humans wouldn't deign to, than live among humans. And like, special irony shout-out to the fact that most Morlocks alive today would have had to be resurrected because of the Morlock Massacre, and since many of their inhuman or hideous appearances WEREN'T part of their own powersets and surface level changes made by Masque, they shouldn't even have been resurrected looking that way and would have had to seek Masque out to make those changes to them again. Actual inhuman appearing Morlocks like Tommy and Scaleface were RARE in the original generation of Morlocks, and other than the changes made by Masque, most of the nonhuman appearing Morlocks only migrated to the tunnels and joined the community because they'd HEARD of the Morlocks' reputation and rejection of human standards of beauty and normalcy.

    Just saying, its funny and a tad disappointing to see Morlocks written as being particularly anti-Krakoa because they feel they're a source of shame because the original Morlocks were literally PROUD of being Morlocks and tried to build a society in directions deliberately counter to human norms, as like....the entire POINT of removing themselves from human communities. If anything, the Morlocks should be taking POINT in a lot of the society-building happening on Krakoa and be like 'glad to see the rest of you finally caught up with what we were saying from day one, here, this is how its done.'
    I didn't think about this at all but this is also 100% facts. Very deep observation. While Carver is only one morlock and one perspective this opens a ton of things that never even crossed my mind about the morlocks and this era and rebirth. They should do a modern morlocks book. This line of questioning and reflection can be a strong story.

    you really got my mind running. Like would some feel guilt. I mean living in the tunnels besides the massacre in relative speaking morlocks were kind of safe during some of the more modern stuff because they were where humans would not go but then what masque did with changing people is there guilt there for that. Like if your a mutant on krakoa that was a morlock and you weren't more mutated from what is considered normal in your appearance but now your hearing stories from mutants who always were like shark girl, what does that say. Was that a form of mutant appropriation. Like my mind just never went there.
    Last edited by jwatson; 01-27-2022 at 02:41 AM.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.
    Number of People on my ignore list: 0
    #conceptualthinking ^_^
    #ByeMarvEN

  2. #77
    Extraordinary Member Master of Sound's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    8,246

    Default

    So Tempo and Bouncer split up, okay,.... ehhh, did we know Tempo liked women, or is this new?


    Are the Theatre of Pain characters any interesting?
    "If any one asks, my name is Rictor" - Avalanche

  3. #78
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    808

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    I didn't think about this at all but this is also 100% facts. Very deep observation. While Carver is only one morlock and one perspective this opens a ton of things that never even crossed my mind about the morlocks and this era and rebirth. They should do a modern morlocks book. This line of questioning and reflection can be a strong story.

    you really got my mind running. Like would some feel guilt. I mean living in the tunnels besides the massacre in relative speaking morlocks were kind of safe during some of the more modern stuff because they were where humans would not go but then what masque did with changing people is there guilt there for that. Like if your a mutant on krakoa that was a morlock and you weren't more mutated from what is considered normal in your appearance but now your hearing stories from mutants who always were like shark girl, what does that say. Was that a form of mutant appropriation. Like my mind just never went there.
    I would looooove to see some Morlocks on Arakko or in X-Men Red too, because like, its not remotely a coincidence in my mind that Storm has now been a leader in two extremely distinct mutant cultures who PRIDE themselves on having different priorities than most other cultures, and in both cases, she literally only ascended to power via challenge-by-combat for her leadership position. Hell, throw in the fact that Storm literally became the iconic leader of the X-Men that she did by first defeating Scott for the position, again, in combat....and while small in number compared to these other cultures, it could very much be argued that the X-Groups as a community, like, even back in the 80s and 90s built a distinct communal culture of their own at times. With that culture not ACTUALLY being as different from Morlocks and Arakki and Neo and other mutant groups, as like, people often assume.

    I'm just WAITING for some writer to connect those dots, cuz like, the connections are there.

    And Master of Sound, sadly, Brimstone Love was the only like, distinct villain here, and while he talked about the Theater of Pain there were no actual ToP members like in the 2099 version with the Norns and such. BUT the issue ended with him having gotten away and included a data page which suggests he's only getting started and will be trying to grow the Theater of Pain, so I'm assuming this is just like, the very early days of his first actual incarnation of his signature Theater and he's still working out the kinks and hasn't built up a specific community with established minions in various Theater of Pain roles.
    Last edited by BobbysWorld; 01-27-2022 at 02:50 AM.

  4. #79
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    808

    Default

    Also just occurred to me......essentially, the original Morlock culture and Krakoa could be accused of both doing the same thing in building exclusive societies unto themselves......and I would kill for someone to hold up that parallel and compare and contrast how extremely DIFFERENT the reactions people have to these two variations of the exact same idea are.

    As well as examine WHY the reactions are so different.

    Like I'm just saying, you just can't claim that people have ever been as heated or polarized on the subject of the Morlock's expatriated-from-humanity society as they are about Krakoa. And I'm kinda fascinated by the implications in like, how much of that was due to the fact that people looked at Morlocks, who EMBRACED physical appearances and living environments most people don't WANT for themselves, and so just never BOTHERED getting worked up by these specific mutants setting themselves apart from society while prioritizing things that the society they rejected didn't also want or envy in turn.

    I mean, what the Morlocks built for themselves wasn't actually all that INHERENTLY different from what Krakoans have built for themselves....with the one glaring distinction that like....most people just didn't look at what the Morlocks built as being or having anything they wanted as well.

    And with the obvious contrast in Krakoa being that like, there IS a clear element of envy built into how a lot of other characters and such react to this OTHER deliberately expatriated-from-humanity society, and see it as something they DO want to be a part of and thus feel excluded from in a way they never bothered to feel excluded or rejected by the existence of a deliberately separate Morlock society.

  5. #80
    Amazing Member Tre Styles's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    42

    Default

    I am wondering when and where Brimstone Love arrived from the future? I thought he was a 2099 character?
    AKA The Minutman Refugee aka Blaquesmith aka DaSynchster!

  6. #81
    Ultimate Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    11,208

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BobbysWorld View Post
    Also just occurred to me......essentially, the original Morlock culture and Krakoa could be accused of both doing the same thing in building exclusive societies unto themselves......and I would kill for someone to hold up that parallel and compare and contrast how extremely DIFFERENT the reactions people have to these two variations of the exact same idea are.

    As well as examine WHY the reactions are so different.

    Like I'm just saying, you just can't claim that people have ever been as heated or polarized on the subject of the Morlock's expatriated-from-humanity society as they are about Krakoa. And I'm kinda fascinated by the implications in like, how much of that was due to the fact that people looked at Morlocks, who EMBRACED physical appearances and living environments most people don't WANT for themselves, and so just never BOTHERED getting worked up by these specific mutants setting themselves apart from society while prioritizing things that the society they rejected didn't also want or envy in turn.

    I mean, what the Morlocks built for themselves wasn't actually all that INHERENTLY different from what Krakoans have built for themselves....with the one glaring distinction that like....most people just didn't look at what the Morlocks built as being or having anything they wanted as well.

    And with the obvious contrast in Krakoa being that like, there IS a clear element of envy built into how a lot of other characters and such react to this OTHER deliberately expatriated-from-humanity society, and see it as something they DO want to be a part of and thus feel excluded from in a way they never bothered to feel excluded or rejected by the existence of a deliberately separate Morlock society.
    I would read. This gave me chills in the sense that with the discussions of tone and animation and krakoa in general gave me a very The Morlocks being like the Addams family of mutants vibe. Like i can see Tim Burton and a amazing clear view of it based on your post. lol. It's a really interesting concept.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.
    Number of People on my ignore list: 0
    #conceptualthinking ^_^
    #ByeMarvEN

  7. #82
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    808

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tre Styles View Post
    I am wondering when and where Brimstone Love arrived from the future? I thought he was a 2099 character?
    He is, but 2099 always established him as an extremely long-lived mutant the 2099 X-Men suspected was at least centuries old. It was just that he only rose to prominence or started involving himself in public conflicts within the century leading up to the events of X-Men 2099. And due to the rise of Krakoa and the difference now between this timeline and the one the 2099 X-Men are from, global events in 616 now led to Brimstone Love making his presence known earlier than he did in that other timeline.

    I look at it kinda like how Apocalypse was hibernating for centuries and so was a relative unknown to Marvel characters when he appeared on the scene within the last twenty years or so in-universe. Imagine another timeline where alternate events in history led to Apocalypse starting his push to global power in the late 1800s instead of the late 1900s, and that's basically what I think happened here with Brimstone Love.

  8. #83
    Astonishing Member LordUltimus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    3,673

    Default

    "Original Morlock Culture" is pretty irrelevant now. Might as well talk about how Moira's always been a human.

  9. #84
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    808

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    "Original Morlock Culture" is pretty irrelevant now. Might as well talk about how Moira's always been a human.
    LOL. You say 'might as well talk about' as though that's a total hypothetical when you yourself have a fourteen page thread that's literally just about how you miss the old Moira and she was so much better when she was just a human.

    No offense, but the call might be coming from inside the house here.

  10. #85
    Astonishing Member LordUltimus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    3,673

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BobbysWorld View Post
    LOL. You say 'might as well talk about' as though that's a total hypothetical when you yourself have a fourteen page thread that's literally just about how you miss the old Moira and she was so much better when she was just a human.

    No offense, but the call might be coming from inside the house here.
    ...That's kind of my point? If you want to talk about how much better Morlock culture was, feel free. But it's not the Morlock culture we think of when we say "Morlock Culture", now is it? Same way that when you say "Moira", you're not talking about her as a normal human.

  11. #86
    Spectacular Member KylunFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    106

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Master of Sound View Post
    So Tempo and Bouncer split up, okay,.... ehhh, did we know Tempo liked women, or is this new?


    Are the Theatre of Pain characters any interesting?

    Mike Carey has said in interviews that he wrote her as a lesbian and her dying words in Age of X imply she and Feral had a thing, but it was as all pretty vague and subtext until this issue.

  12. #87
    Ultimate Member Fokken's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    10,385

    Default

    My take away from the Hot Tub scene:

    Bobby and Christian are hot tubbing.
    Somnus (Carl, iirc?) joins them.
    They're just vibing in a literal tropical paradise.
    They start exchanging small talk.
    "I'm new" "Oh, what are your powers?" "Oh that's so interesting" "Would you like to try it?" Yadda yadda yadda.
    And so Christian says "Why not, lets do it!" and Somnus presumably puts them to sleep and constructs a "revenge fantasy" (haha) for Christian: He and a boy (Bobby, in this case) experiencing a common coming of age/rite of passage that many gays their age missed out on (prom) while dancing on top of the visage of Christian's disapproving father, and they can literally scuffs their heels into his father's face (haha) The specifics of the dream (the setting, the dad, etc) could be subconscious desires that Somnus accessed in Christian's mind rather than a specific request. Bobby inquiring about the slow dance choice is also a peek into Christian's tender side, as Bobby is likely more familiar with Christian being a "bad boy" type, prompting Christian's joke about the cot under the bleachers.

    The Ice of it all is likely one of two explanations: Bobby is REALLY into his power exploration lately. His choice to remain "ICED" could be a reflection of that. But the simplest answer is that he is in ice form for the reader to more easily identify him. Silly or not, it is what it is. Chalk it up to Mutant Pride.

    So the Somnus scene: Its not weird. Its not creepy. Its definitely not pervy. Its a charming introduction to Orlando's new character, establishing that he is new to Krakoa, has a romantic connection to Akihiro, is able to shape a person's dreams and he's eager to experience what the world has to offer after having received a new lease on life.

    Quote Originally Posted by BobbysWorld View Post
    I mean, there's really no need to villainize Somnus because everything he does in this issue is completely explained and everyone's voluntarily on board with it by all accounts? Like, I'm not loving the rush to view him as predatory when that's just.....not what's going on. The thing with Iceman and Christian is he basically gives them the dream prom night neither of them ever got because Bobby was busy being an X-Man and fighting life or death battles in high school and Christian was locked up in a mental institution by his homophobic father....who in the 'dream' that both Bobby and Christian are fully aware is a dream, thus making it pretty clear they know what's happening is a result of the dream powers of the guy in the hot tub with them, and are fine with.....like point being, in the dream scenario, a vestige of Christian's father and his bigotry is like, trying to denounce Christian, who literally just takes the opportunity to rub his slow dance with Bobby in his father's dream face. Somnus is only there because he HAD to be there to initiate the dream, that's pretty clearly established as how his power works, and he just kinda unobtrusively stands on the sidelines of the dream like a chaperone at the prom, staying out of the way while Bobby and Christian have their slow dance with Somnus showing no desire to cut in or make it about him.

    And he's really not like....doing anything in the issue to mess with Aurora and Akihiro's relationship, or trying to cut in there either? He and Akihiro met decades ago and had a one night stand that was amplified into an extended dream sequence by Carl's powers - with it being likely it wasn't even deliberate on Carl's part since they were both young at the time and he never actually got any official training with them, and Akihiro's literally the one who asked to have Carl resurrected, with Aurora there and informed of their history from the jump.

    To clarify, nowhere in the issue does Somnus express resentment or confusion about the two of them being in a relationship, his history with Akihiro is explicitly referenced as HISTORY that predates the relationship with Aurora by several decades, and Somnus is pretty explicitly characterized as "I'm helping to rescue Akihiro because they think I might have insights that could help given our knowledge of each other from an extended dream-life together, but just because I still have feelings for him doesn't mean I'm interested in disrespecting his current relationship or trying to win him back at Aurora's expense."

    Sorry, just.....feels like a lot of jumping to conclusions about him when the issue explicitly lays out the dynamics in such a way as there's not really any need to reach for conclusions or assumptions. Don't get me wrong, if you don't like the dynamics as laid out or buy them as believable, that's like, one thing, but the assumption of this new character as predatory based on a handful of out of context lines isn't....that. Y'know?
    Beautifully said, BobbysWorld


    On the subject of Tempo: So many folks keep insinuating that Tempo's orientation came out of nowhere or that its new, and to that I say: Heterosexuality is not a default. Every character is not straight until proven otherwise and every queer character does not require a dramatic lead up, revelation or coming out moment to be queer.
    Last edited by Fokken; 01-27-2022 at 05:44 AM.

  13. #88
    Welcome Back Spidey Kurolegacy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    7,034

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundershot View Post
    Brimstone Love is a total psychopath who preys on the weak willed…

    …but he does have a point.

    Charles won’t even let his own stepbrother, who has been an X-Man during several runs, live on Krakoa… What does that say for all of the human allies? Wait, if Lockheed and Warlock can live there, why not another alien like Longshot or Kid Gladiator or Warbird?

    Though Cain is apparently going to be in Kurt’s book, so maybe it’ll get addressed.

    Also… When was the last time Iceman was shown powered down? He spends most of his time in his ice form, even when it would seem to be inconvenient.
    Plot twist: The Iceman that we’ve been following in Marauders has actually been a rogue ice clone the whole time and Bobby has been on an extended vacation the whole time.

  14. #89
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    5,980

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundershot View Post
    Brimstone Love is a total psychopath who preys on the weak willed…

    …but he does have a point.

    Charles won’t even let his own stepbrother, who has been an X-Man during several runs, live on Krakoa… What does that say for all of the human allies? Wait, if Lockheed and Warlock can live there, why not another alien like Longshot or Kid Gladiator or Warbird?

    Though Cain is apparently going to be in Kurt’s book, so maybe it’ll get addressed.

    Also… When was the last time Iceman was shown powered down? He spends most of his time in his ice form, even when it would seem to be inconvenient.
    It's been addressed in Deadpool+ Juggernaut in X-Men Unlimited

  15. #90
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Posts
    1,189

    Default

    Honestly I'm waiting to see Cassandra Nova's treatment first. Brimstone Love, either Orlando has got the usual case of writing straw critics into your works to tear them down, or it's a nuanced discussion, or anything else. It's probably too early to tell, and at this point in the story, much like the latest Avenger vs Xmen stuff, or the entire Firestar thing, is there to generate controversy and set the fandom at each other's throat for more engagement from the audience.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •