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  1. #1
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    Default Hickman Question

    So I am finally starting to read Hickman's run on X-Men and have a question.

    If Moira, gave Xavier access to her mind during their first meeting in this continuity, why fight Magneto this entire time. Does it invalidate all stories prior to this run? Did Xavier know all of these events would come to pass? Was he just feigning ignorance throughout all of X-Mens canon?

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    It's almost as if the retcon was poorly implemented or something.

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    Mighty Member Micabe's Avatar
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    That's damn good question...

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    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iclifton View Post
    So I am finally starting to read Hickman's run on X-Men and have a question.

    If Moira, gave Xavier access to her mind during their first meeting in this continuity, why fight Magneto this entire time. Does it invalidate all stories prior to this run? Did Xavier know all of these events would come to pass? Was he just feigning ignorance throughout all of X-Mens canon?
    I'm thinking post hypnotic suggestion. certain
    Things had to occur before their Meeting and subsequent information could be the remembered
    GrindrStone(D)

  5. #5
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    Telepathic shielding of some kind is my personal guess. We know that Professor X did teach some of his students some limited methods to resist mental tampering, I'm sure Moira could have picked some more advanced techniques up along the years.

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    Astonishing Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iclifton View Post
    So I am finally starting to read Hickman's run on X-Men and have a question.

    If Moira, gave Xavier access to her mind during their first meeting in this continuity, why fight Magneto this entire time. Does it invalidate all stories prior to this run? Did Xavier know all of these events would come to pass? Was he just feigning ignorance throughout all of X-Mens canon?
    He didn't know everything. Moira already said Xavier could only see her mind once, and she wouldn't allow a second time. He certainly knew Magneto would show up eventually, but not details to make it inevitable. Besides, before the events of UXM #150, Magneto was too crazy and radical.

    Also keep in mind that Moira said she tried to break Xavier into her worldview, and was implied Onslaught was a consequence of that.

    There's also the fact there are many events that are unique to this reality. At the very least:

    Onslaught
    Proteus
    Legion
    AoA and everything that comes from it
    Everything regarding Genosha (the origin comes from Sugar Man's experiments)
    The Mutant Massacre (no Dark Beast experiment on the Morlocks)
    The Xavier/Magneto/Moira split that came from Moira thinkering with him

    There's likely more too.

  7. #7
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    Magneto is recruited after UXM #150 which is when he started his path of redemption. The retcon on purpose choses this moment to avoid that kind of contradiction.

    Then the Moira Journal especifically states that after the events of 1991's X-men #1-3 , Erik and them had a schism which again fits with Magnetos crhonology of going back to big villain. Then he tries to have a nation of his own, again mentiond in HOX as part of Moira's influence and after HoM he has been an ally this whole time.
    Last edited by SamuraiK; 01-26-2022 at 09:31 PM.

  8. #8
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamuraiK View Post
    Magneto is recruited after UXM #150 which is when he started his patch of redemption. The retcon on purpose choses this moment to avoid that kind of contradiction.

    Then the Moira Jouranl especifically states that after the events of 1991's X-men #1-3 , Erik and them had a schism which again fits with Magnetos crhonology of going back to big villain. Then he tries to have a nation of his own, again mentiond in HOX as part of Moira's influence and after HoM he has been an ally this whole time.
    This is the most likely answer.

    And I always thought that Xavier and Moira tried to convert him way later in life, because he was so antagonistic why would he ever allow his enemy to mess with his brain early in his supervillainy?
    Last edited by charliehustle415; 01-26-2022 at 09:08 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    It's almost as if the retcon was poorly implemented or something.
    Except it wasn't. Quite the opposite in fact.

  10. #10
    Spectacular Member Nopozyzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    It's almost as if the retcon was poorly implemented or something.
    I agree. Maybe I am just old, stubborn and jaded but I don't think anyone can convince me that it makes any sense. It's best not to think about. Blame time travel or something. Cable is always messing around with the time-stream. Or maybe the universe wasn't put back together right after the Secret War event.

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loke13 View Post
    Except it wasn't. Quite the opposite in fact.
    Yeah, I'm sure everybody over the years just forgot all about Moira's lives whenever they read her mind, which happened all the time. Or Moira herself was just keeping her cover from the reader whenever we read her thought balloons.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    He didn't know everything. Moira already said Xavier could only see her mind once, and she wouldn't allow a second time. He certainly knew Magneto would show up eventually, but not details to make it inevitable. Besides, before the events of UXM #150, Magneto was too crazy and radical.

    Also keep in mind that Moira said she tried to break Xavier into her worldview, and was implied Onslaught was a consequence of that.

    There's also the fact there are many events that are unique to this reality. At the very least:

    Onslaught
    Proteus
    Legion
    AoA and everything that comes from it
    Everything regarding Genosha (the origin comes from Sugar Man's experiments)
    The Mutant Massacre (no Dark Beast experiment on the Morlocks)
    The Xavier/Magneto/Moira split that came from Moira thinkering with him

    There's likely more too.
    Once would all Xavier would need to get everything. Telepathy of late has been treated like working a computer.

    He could have copied and downloaded everything into his own mind, placed a few post hypnotic suggestions in Moira's mind and more inside of five minutes.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Once would all Xavier would need to get everything. Telepathy of late has been treated like working a computer.

    He could have copied and downloaded everything into his own mind, placed a few post hypnotic suggestions in Moira's mind and more inside of five minutes.
    TBF, she met with younger, possibly not as experienced with his powers Xavier and could have picked up some techniques over her lifetimes to help defend against Telepaths

  14. #14
    Mugga, please. xhx23x's Avatar
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    There's usually two avenues where this type of story can explain that.

    1) Some telepathic masking was used here. Meaning maybe Xavier and Magneto could have been tampared to forget their knowledge of Moira's secret at key points in time to let events played out as they had to.
    2) They were playing their parts, which seems to be the implication given Emma's reaction in Inferno.

    Obviously, the cancelled Moira book would probably had dealt with it but now we'll never know what the original plan was and likely will have to wait on more of Moira's story to play out to get clarification here. I think the first option will likely be the one they go with, with telepathy being how they got away with it, in a similar way how the 05 got their Present Day memories changed once their younger selves went back in time, without altering the events that happened.

    I do think the second option is the one that has more story potential, especially if they involve people like Rhane or Banshee, but it all depends in how far into the lore the writers are willing to go.

    Ultimately, whichever road they take, it won't be 100% satisfying if you're a stickler for continuity. Retcons are never a perfect fit and require us as reader to let go of things. For me, is all on how they decide to execute it, I guess we'll see going forward. Though at least from X Deaths doesn't seem like we'll be dealing with any answers any time soon.

  15. #15
    Astonishing Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saithor View Post
    TBF, she met with younger, possibly not as experienced with his powers Xavier and could have picked up some techniques over her lifetimes to help defend against Telepaths
    Plus, Xavier was clearly overwhelmed by the information. Even Emma was, and she was far more experienced. This a non-issue that was already addressed.

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