Joker 2

[choptop]

The poster above me was correct. The director wanted the audience to be sympathetic to the Joker and steered away from him killing innocents like women and children. He specifically let the Joker kill those who wronged him. For the sequel I hope he actually is like the comics and becomes a homicidal maniac and goes on a big murder spree.

Ok but the talk show host and the other guy for all intense and perpos were innocent people jerks sure but still innocent.

[Wildling]

It wasn't on the level of shooting a fast food manager while driving a stolen car on Christmas with the owners bodies still inside, but Joaquer embracing the violent murder-friendly mob and the implied murder at the end already hinted at chaos. We'll see.

[Noodle]

Like "you shouldn't like Joker because Taxi Driver." Is that really a worthwhile thing to do?

You can like whatever you want to like. If you like Joker, that's cool. Criticism of a film isn't automatically damning that film's fans. People can enjoy whatever they want to.

[choptop]

You can like whatever you want to like. If you like Joker, that's cool. Criticism of a film isn't automatically damning that film's fans. People can enjoy whatever they want to.

For sure like whatever you want but what I think vakanai is saying is ppl seem to be dislikeing joker because it is similar to taxi driver and king of comedy I agree joker is not for everyone and had problems but if that's you're only reason to not like joker sorry but that's kinda a bad reason.

[HollowSage]

For sure like whatever you want but what I think vakanai is saying is ppl seem to be dislikeing joker because it is similar to taxi driver and king of comedy I agree joker is not for everyone and had problems but if that's you're only reason to not like joker sorry but that's kinda a bad reason.

Disliking a thing because of it’s derivative nature is as valid a reason as any other. Is lack of creativity not worthy of criticism?

[Kirby101]

It's not "you can't like Joker because Taxi Driver". It's I didn't like Joker because of Taxi Driver. It's that while watching it it felt so derivative, that Phillips reaching to make everything so much like a Scorsese film that I was never wholly involved in the movie. There were other reasons I didn't like it, but that was a big one.

[Vakanai]

For sure like whatever you want but what I think vakanai is saying is ppl seem to be dislikeing joker because it is similar to taxi driver and king of comedy I agree joker is not for everyone and had problems but if that's you're only reason to not like joker sorry but that's kinda a bad reason.

More my point was, I'd like to see any discussion of Joker that doesn't automatically have Taxi Driver or King of Comedy mentioned. Like there's plenty of other things that someone could talk about it, good or bad. But hearing the same thing after several years is like, ugh. It's getting up there with the Man of Steel/Murder comments in terms of things I've read too often for too long. It's a point that's been brought up so much it's no longer beating a dead horse, it's beating glue.
I don't know, I just don't want to hear the same point every single time a discussion about a film comes up. It makes me want to avoid discussions of things I like because I know that I will absolutely have to read the same thing brought up again, often multiple times. Always from the same people. Like, I get it, I kept making the same arguments against films I hated too (ask anyone at Toho Kingdom forum what my thoughts on Godzilla vs Kong are), but I can only sustain that for like a year, year and a half at most. How others can do that for much longer like a decade for Man of Steel, 3 years now for Joker, so on. I don't know, like at some point find a new criticism please...

[Kirby101]

First it wasn't a Joker movie, it was a story about a psychopath that they hung Joker references on to. Remove all Joker elements and make it about a clown who becomes a killer, and it's the same movie. Next we have Phoenix. Yes, a riveting performance, hard to watch at times. But I kept asking, why the weight loss? It did nothing for the character to make him emaciated. I could see making him thin and drawn, but why should the character look like a famine survivor? The fact that I had to keep asking myself that, makes one removed from the story. It felt like him saying "Look at what a dedicated actor I am". And of course there is Scorsese. This felt more like a sequel to King of Comedy than anything to do with Batman. And if you don't want the audience to constantly think about that movie, don't put in Di Nero as a successful Rupert Pupkin and have the plot follow it so closely. So one thing after another made me more an observer of a film than a viewer of a movie. I was removed from the story time after time. Not "what will happen next?", but "what are they doing here?" That is not the mark of a good movie.

As for your question about the same discussions. It stopped some time ago, until this thread for Joker 2 showed up. Why would people not discuss the flaws of the first movie when talking about the next one? I bet when the Godzilla v Kong 2 thread shows up, people will rehash the problems with the first one.

[Jim Kelly]

I feel that if posters want to get into a fight over the first JOKER movie, they should start a thread for that purpose.

I would like to talk about the upcoming new movie, but this doesn't seem a safe space to do that. Anything I could post would just get buried under the backbiting rhetoric about the first movie.

[Kirby101]

I feel that if posters want to get into a fight over the first JOKER movie, they should start a thread for that purpose.

I would like to talk about the upcoming new movie, but this doesn't seem a safe space to do that. Anything I could post would just get buried under the backbiting rhetoric about the first movie.

Here is the little we know about Joker 2, discuss.

https://variety.com/2022/film/news/j...ps-1235333968/

[choptop]

It's not "you can't like Joker because Taxi Driver". It's I didn't like Joker because of Taxi Driver. It's that while watching it it felt so derivative, that Phillips reaching to make everything so much like a Scorsese film that I was never wholly involved in the movie. There were other reasons I didn't like it, but that was a big one.

So if you never saw Taxi Driver or if it didn't exist do you think you'd have a different opinion?

[choptop]

I feel that if posters want to get into a fight over the first JOKER movie, they should start a thread for that purpose.

I would like to talk about the upcoming new movie, but this doesn't seem a safe space to do that. Anything I could post would just get buried under the backbiting rhetoric about the first movie.

I don't see anyone fighting evayone has been very polite and respectful.

[Noodle]

So if you never saw Taxi Driver or if it didn't exist do you think you'd have a different opinion?

These are two very different scenarios. If Taxi Driver didn't exist, then Joker isn't borrowing from anything. If someone had never seen it, then Joker is still borrowing from it but the person is ignorant to it.

[Kirby101]

So if you never saw Taxi Driver or if it didn't exist do you think you'd have a different opinion?

I am sure I would. But I did. And the Scorsese homage was not the only problem I had with the movie. A stolen song is still plagiarism, even if you never heard the original.

And as Noodle said, The Joker would not be this movie if Taxi Driver and King of Comedy did not exist.

[j9ac9k]

I like how the most famous part of Joker was the stairs dancing scene, so they were like, "Let's just do a whole movie of that!" I literally hope there are a shit-ton of dancing on stairs like ALL the time, just to play into it.

And we've already seen Harley Quinn - she was played by Sandra Bernhardt in "King of Comedy."