The Bendis Legion: What Could've Been

[Frontier]

When you realize that the Legion has failed to pick up a new generation of fans for almost 30 years now......

Well, I wouldn't say completely failed. I think the cartoon did a decent job...it made me a Legion fan.

[Factor]

And let’s not forget that pre-Flashpoint, even with a mediocre run by Levitz, they still sold well enough to have a spin-off in Adventure Comics.
Fan interest is there, it’s just that DC keep screwing up the property.

[HsssH]

When you realize that the Legion has failed to pick up a new generation of fans for almost 30 years now......

I think they pick up new fans with every new iteration, problem is that they are probably losing more old fans than getting new ones.

[Superlad93]

I think Superlad93's superpower is "Potential Vision."

Oh yeah, at some point I think I'll drop DC comics entirely and just read Superlad93's posts about them

I appreciate that lol

There was also a Bleeding Cool rumor from way back when that Bendis was going to use some of Hickman’s ideas for the Legion in his reboot so I think you’re on the mark. I liked a lot of the worldbuilding of Bendis Legion but I found some of the dialogue and plotting off-putting. I would love to see the planned HBO MAX Legion show deliver on this story you’re selling however, especially with other writers in the room to help Bendis plot and write dialogue.

Okay then this allows me to confirm a few of the parallels that I've been seeing.

New Krypton functions as Krakoa down to the fact that it gets a belling from the United Planets same as how Krakoa got one from the UN. But rather than Jon, Clark, or Zod creating drugs that revolutionize the world, it's Jon creating the UP as the big incentive. But it's also possible that a closer parallel to the drugs would've been found later on in the run. "Make more mutants" as a rule because the race was endangered is paralleled by New Krypton being repopulated the old fashioned way, and in the 31st century it being part of the cultural norm on the planet to mate often and mate with several partners to produce offspring. And of course House Zod and El coming together after visions of a possible future are from Prof X and Magneto coming together.

This also REALLY explains why the internal language at DC during this time was to describe Jon and Damian as Prof X and Magneto.

But the big one I want to talk about is Orchis vs Krakoa. Before I go forward, it should be understood that just like how Moira X's idea is spread across several characters (Jon, Rose, Brainiac, and King from Checkmate), Krakoa's ideas and parallels aren't just confined to New Krypton. Clearly Prof X and Magneto idea is split between House El/Zod and Jon/Damian.

Krakoa and Orchis are Checkmate and Leviathan. Orchis' whole deal is that it's made up of percentages of all of the spy and intelligence agencies in Marvel. That's literally Leviathan. But the twist is that Bendis actually flipped them at the last second. Leviathan actually ends up being a lot more like Krakoa. They have their own island nation, and they even made a world changing address to the world. I'm betting that under Damian's rule they'd have released some world changing tech or drugs that would legitimize them in the eyes of the world, and split the heroes down the middle.

Checkmate then becomes more like Orchis. We'd have gotten a bunch of spy vs spy pot shot smash and grab missions from both teams. It also would've put Damian in the role of the Emperor or Darth Vader from Star Wars because Checkmate would've been relatively smaller, always on the back foot, and fighting the uphill battle of this nation that's now giving the world miracles.

I think what really drew DiDio and DC to Hickman's pitch (including the formation of the United Planets) and why they'd want to overlay it across they WHOLE universe rather than just one section like Marvel did is the uniformity and sense of progressing long standing characters and ideas.

[Superlad93]

The question that's been really hanging over me this whole time is what then would the idea for Jon in the present day after his Legion adventures and training be?

Keeping in mind Bendis' Legion love, how much his Superman story has been ultimately linked to Legion, his Camelot 3000 influences, and his Dune/Star Wars (Bendis brought up several times when explaining his Legion (even giving an on page nod to it in issue 2) influences, and now understanding that the House of X pitch was a big part, I think I've got it.

But before I go into it, I need to make it understood that no writer worth their salt just uses an idea once in one form. Kirby certainly didn't. The idea factory, Grant Morrison, certainly doesn't. Putting the same idea in a new setting with new characters often yields different results, and it's often because the writer doing it has more to say on that idea or didn't feel like the idea got the room it should've before.

With that said, if you want to get a sense of the idea behind what Bendis' Jon Kent/Superman were ultimately going to be...read his Iron Man runs and Civil War 2. Iron Man isn't Bendis' favorite comic character. That's likely Spider-Man. But I'll bet you right now that Iron Man is in the top three (alongside Luke Cage and Spider-Man) of Bendis' favorite characters to write that he didn't create himself. More specifically it's the modern take on Iron Man that he himself is in large part very responsible for. Some don't know this, but Bendis was part of the writer's room that came up with the first Iron Man movie script, and then from there his more fast talking, cocky, "guy's who's always right and rubs your nose in it" take has been what formed the comic Tony.

And what's kind of really interesting about Bendis as a writer is that he is simultaneously in love with the gray area of noir street stuff or personal drama AND he's an unflinching optimist that looks towards a brighter future. This likely comes from growing up on Daredevil and Legion at the same time. His Superman run was an example of that future forward optimism as it would always point towards the Legion's brighter future even against the space noir politics. In a very, very early interview at the onset of his Superman run, Bendis flat out said that his favorite kinds of heroes were futurists. Heroes who could see what the world needed today to get us to tomorrow, and then make it happen. He then DIRECTLY linked Iron Man and Superman together, and said/implied that he viewed them as very similar. This is clearly coming from a dude who mixed Dune, Star Wars, and Legion in his head, and wished that Paul (the protagonist of the first three Dune books) got a more optimistic story. In you've read it, one could even argue that Bendis takes a lot from what Paul's son ultimately becomes.

Anyways, that preamble was just to say that Bendis LOVES the Iron Man-- futurist hero-- idea, and that during his last few years at Marvel (around the time of Civil War) he looked to add upon the Iron Man idea in ways that he felt moved the concept forward. You're assuming I mean Riri, huh? No. In fact, Bendis flat out said that Riri wasn't created to be Iron Man or even take over the book. That seemed to be something editorial imposed upon him. Given Rhodey death during Civil War 2, I'm fairly certain the obvious was true and she was to become something similar to War Machine. But she'd be the "Tony" in that she was the naturally smart one. That then leaves the question of who would've been Iron Man. I'm about 99% sure that it would've been the inhuman introduced in Civil War 2, Ulysses. Remind me again what his big controversial power was? Oh yeah! SEEING POSSIBLE FUTURES!

That's maybe one of the most clear and blatant Dune callbacks that Bendis has ever made. You can actually see some of the plot points that Ulysses would've had in Bendis' Doom Iron Man (who was clearly a mandate due to Marvel not really wanting to publish FF stuff at the time). Doom's Iron Man was "stop the criminals before they even do the crime" hero. Sound familiar to any big Civil War event they'd just had? But Doom did this via his knowledge of the underworld, and Ulysses would've been doing this via his power. My guess is that he'd have taken one of Tony's old armors, and Riri would've been the brains of the operation along with is partner.

So now (allegedly) we have Bendis left somewhat unfulfilled in terms of this idea he had for his favorite kind of hero, so when he makes the jump to DC and he asks for Superman and Legion, and also gets word that they're going to be making some of the biggest changes ever...he sees his shot. Jon Kent would've been Ulysses/Tony Stark part 2.

_________

Seems simple enough, right? Jon Kent is a futurist because he literally has inside knowledge from a version of the future, and he's going back to the present to use that to make things better. Simple. But what does that look like? Well, we don't have to look too far because we have info from Bleeding Cool, Bendis' Iron Man run, and the heavily watered down embers of 5G via Bendis' Checkmate and Justice League run (which is literally him just getting to ideas he didn't do at rapid fire).

Bleeding Cool tells us that Jon Kent as Superman would've been "more traditional" in comparison to Clark's midlife crisis neo Golden Age guy in The Authority. But clearly he's not as "traditional" as you'd assume because, well, he ends up shrinking Metropolis for a time. And just as a quick aside: Bendis hints at this idea hard in issue #1 of Legion when Jon freaks out about the city being under glass. And on top of that Bendis establishes the danger of this while simultaneously killing off the last Kryptonians that aren't El or Zod in Man of Steel with Zaar and Kandor. I just thought that was a really neat bit of foreshadowing that would've lead to something.

I'm guessing the reason Jon ends up shrinking the city is due to him having really specific knowledge of the future, and him shrinking the city for a time ultimately saves it. But in the meantime Jon gets A LOT of heat for doing it, and those close to him who know he has a good reason would start to question him. It's a pretty classic Bendis shock and awe mystery box plot. He presents you with the shocking moment or idea, has the character keep quite about why they did it, and then you work backwards and find out that there's a good reason here. He does this a lot. It was in his second Jessica Jones book, it's basically every issue of Civil War 2, and a whole bunch of other examples, so I'm confident that this would be the idea here.

From there it's basically his Infamous Iron Man run meets his Civil War 2. Jon uses his knowledge of the future to pick and choose objectives and people to stop. This leaves lots of room for more shock and awe mystery box moments where Jon goes like "for the future to live...THE ATOM MUST DIE" and things like that. Jon's insider knowledge and methods would see him clash with other heroes who don't agree, and likely even with his father depending on the situation...because, I mean, obviously you set that up.

Just think, Jon's Superman would've been a Superman made almost completely of Silver Age fake out covers. "Sorry Uncle Jimmy, but in order to save the city you have to marry this gorilla". "Sorry mom, but if you don't want Solaris to kill us all in three years, you can't have a drop of water for the next 24 hours...while in this desert." A Superman totally made up of "you just gotta trust me on this one...now let me turn you into a giant ant okay." This is then why you ultimately get "sorry citizens of Metropolis, but I'm shirking you for your own good."

And on top of that, in what I'm now realizing is a master stroke of creativity...Jon has his own big secret that only a few people know about.

This then leads us to how Jon would function in the new landscape of a DCU where Checkmate and Leviathan are at the heart of it having a secret cold war. What we know is that Jon would ultimately have to not only be linked to this conflict but that he'd be Damian's opposite number, so all signs point to Jon and Checkmate being linked. That really funny part is that Bendis seemed to genuinely unhappy enough with not getting to tell his big DCU global epic and use the new Superman to do it that he made a character that seems to be a distillation of all of his frustration.

[Superlad93]

Continued...

The character I'm talking about is Leonardo Lane aka The Demon Rose. He's Sam Lane's secret son, and Lois' younger half brother. And the biggest defining characteristic Bendis really, really wants to impress upon you? HE LOOKS EXACTLY LIKE JON KENT. Both Lois and Clark say it multiple times. Thing is, I really, really doubt Leo would've been made had 5G gone through. He's a hodgepodge of aborted storylines in Bendis' run. He's the secret half brother of one of Jon's parents...by one of their dads who recently died. Rogol Zaar was originally supposed to be Clark's half brother via Jor-El. He's Checkmates new secret weapon that was organically a free agent. Jon Kent as Superman would've likely joined Checkmate. And of course he's drawn to look like a 20 something year old Jon Kent. In 5G Jon would've been around 22 or 23 when he came back to the present as Superman.

This actually brings us back to the King Arthur stuff in a funny way. The thing is, due to Checkmates naming conventions (each member is given the code name of a chess piece), Jon could have literally been crowned "king" of Checkmate at some point. My guess is that he'd have started as a New Frontier reference, and gone by "bishop". For those that don't know, in the comic DC New Frontier (itself a sort of blueprint to 5G given that it looks at the DCU as one continuous story in real time) Clark works under King Faraday as "bishop 6". The set up is clear since the undercover from the future Kamandi literally goes by King. My guess is that a lot of the scenes you saw with Shaw and Clark were likely supposed to be Damian and Jon. Especially since Clark wouldn't have been able to fly or be looked at as "the most powerful being in the universe" as Shaw saw him.

My guess is that since Jon's knowledge of the past has holes in it because of the Great Disaster that leads to Kamandi's time, it would've been Kamandi adding to Jon's knowledge. I'm thinking the Great Disaster was caused by Damian as Leviathan. Bendis gives a hint to that in his Legion lead up. Functionally this allows there to still be stakes, tension, and uncertainty in a story and universe were at least two characters are back from the future to save the world. This is also why I think Kamandi would've likely died. He had the most knowledge of the relatively near future, so his death would be the biggest blow to Checkmate and our heroes. This would also leave the door open for Jon to take the "throne" as King because he'd have the most knowledge and he knew Damian the best. I also think that's probably when we'd see an influx of new Checkmate operatives. Lois would likely become Queen.

As a bonus, all of this is likely why Jenny and Jon meet and then get together. Thematically she's the personification of the learning from your past, and Jon's coming in from the future, and they're meeting in the middle. Character wise, Jenny is literally the Earth's defense system, and you're telling her that eventually things will get so bad that the Earth, and thus her, will die out. She has a vested interest that would likely have her viewing turning down Clark and Manchester's neo Golden Age midlife crisis adventures because this is far and away more serious in the long run.

She'd likely start out as a bishop or even knight, and then Lois would probably name her queen alongside Jon's king.

So there it is. I think Bendis' take on Jon Kent as Superman would've seen him as a neo Arthurian spy king futurist. Conflicts like Jon having to decide between what's best for the future and what's best for him would come up. He may even start losing faith in his mission because it feels like such an uphill battle.

I can't possibly be right with all of this, but I feel like a fair percentage is on the money.

[Frontier]

I'm not sure if Leo Lane is the result of Bendis re-structuring unused plans/ideas for Jon, but he's for my money probably one of the most unnecessary characters in comics of the last few years...not helped by the fact that Bendis once wrote Lois saying she was an only child because Bendis forgot Lucy existed.

[Quinlan58]

Credit where credit is due, "Jon Kent as a Superman made up entirely of Silver Age covers" is a hilarious concept that I'd love to see. Everything else... meh, I read the first few issues of Legion, I read Event Leviathan and the first few issues of Checkmate, I don't think I would have enjoyed those ideas as executed by Bendis, no matter how "conceptually strong" the sales pitch might be.

[John Venus]

Well, I wouldn't say completely failed. I think the cartoon did a decent job...it made me a Legion fan.

I think they pick up new fans with every new iteration, problem is that they are probably losing more old fans than getting new ones.

Not enough new fans for it to matter though. Which is my point. The reboots don't help either.

[Zero Hunter]

Not enough new fans for it to matter though. Which is my point. The reboots don't help either.

The reboots are the problem. They did the same thing with Bendis they did with Mark Waid. They let a big name writer come in and reboot everything just because they wanted too and both times it failed spectacularly. The Waid boot lost so many fans that only started coming back when his run was retconned away. The problem was instead of going with someone new they brought Levitz back and things were so screwed up even he didn't know what was cannon and what wasn't during his run so it was pretty sloppy. Then instead of trying to let a new writer build on what was there they again let a high profile writer (who had proven time and time again he was not a cosmic type writer) come in and reboot again. Bendis at this point is a love him or hate him writer which drove even more people off the book yet again.

What I'm saying is DC has blundered the handeling of the Legion over and over and over again for the last 20 years because they are morons.

[Superlad93]

Forgot to add that the wellspring of knowledge that Jon would take to back to the 21st century would come in the form of Rose Forest's memories. She lived through the 20th century all the way to the 31st. She got to see saw the wrong turns that humanity took.

But the really interesting part is that Rose's mind is actually fractured into two. Thorn is also there, and Rose makes it clear that she never remembers anything when Thorn is in control. So that may be what creates gaps in Jon's knowledge of what's coming.

I figure either Rose and Jon would've just sat down hand had a VERY long conversation, and Jon would take notes, or-- maybe more likely given the House of X pitch base-- Saturn Girl places the information inside Jon's mind. And as a writing tool, Rose's recounts can be as reliable as you need them to be. She is after all just one person going through and event. Her memories would either act as a very helpful hint or right on the money info.

As an aside: I'm almost certain it would've been Saturn Girl implanting the information because that would've been a callback to how Saturn Girl used to be the one to erase the Silver Age Superboy's mind of events of the future. But this is doing the exact opposite.

Maybe even as a callback to Dune and his character Ulysses, Jon's recollection of Rose's memories would come to him as dreams/visions so as not to overwhelm him and to keep it in chronological order in his mind?

_____________

Speaking of Saturn Girl, I think one of the plotlines that Bendis was working up to was yet another very direct Dune callback involving her home world of Titan. We saw a very watered down speed run of it in his Future State Legion book. We learned that Saturn Girl's people were behind quite a bit, and have to influencing the galaxy from behind the scenes. If you've read Dune then you know that this is very much a callback to the Bene Gesserit, the psychic all female order that set most of the events of Dune into motion.

In kind of a strange way (but thematically fitting) Saturn Girl would be the Lady Jessica to Jon's Paul if it's her that implants Rose's memories. She'd be turning Jon into the Kwisatz Haderach. This is the genetically chosen one being that can see both the past and the present.

This actually adds in another dimension of story, because it's possible that Saturn Girl's people could've influenced her mind and tainted Jon's memories in the hopes of having him change things in their favor.

[Timber Wolf-By-Night]

Congratulations. You've convinced me to never, ever read anything Bendis ever writes again for the rest of eternity. What an overly convoluted catatrophically unsound cluster**** waste.

[Superlad93]

Congratulations. You've convinced me to never, ever read anything Bendis ever writes again for the rest of eternity. What an overly convoluted catatrophically unsound cluster**** waste.

Sorry to hear that. But I'm fairly sure the only thing that actually makes this seem convoluted is the fact that I've added in so much background speculation of where the inspiration for the ideas come from.

In reality, it streamlines and connects more than it convolutes. Jon comes back to the present with knowledge of the future in some form, and uses that to guide the world to a better tomorrow. Checkmate and Leviathan take all of the numerous super secret organizations in the DCU and make it good guy SHIELD vs bad guy SHIELD. This is also where most of the heroes and villains would've likely divided off into in a Civil War pro reg vs anti reg sort of way. Outside of that, I mean, you're grown, so you've read comics before or watched a movie, so you know about alternate timelines. Brainiac and the Legion were trying to create the best possible timeline that doesn't end in the end of everything.

[Vordan]

All I can say is conceptually I dig the hell out of a lot of what you’re theorizing about Superlad, I just suspect that Bendis’ execution of it all would’ve been mixed. If he takes another shot at all this in his LoSH show, aided by some other writers who can balance out his weaknesses, I think you have the ingredients for something exciting and new.

[LordUltimus]

How would a Legion show be able to do all these plots without a Checkmate show going alongside it, though?