If Sabretooth is still rapist..

[WildR]

Some boring character got 4 minis and 5 one-shots since 90s and now his latest issue ranks no.4 on comixology
Guess it gotta be boring readers continuity buying boring books lol

[The Cool Thatguy]

Some boring character got 4 minis and 5 one-shots since 90s and now his latest issue ranks no.4 on comixology
Guess it gotta be boring readers continuity buying boring books lol

Eh, Image comics were hot for a time too.

It's telling that Sabretooth doesn't have any defining story like Titans Hunt, or Days of Future Past. If he didn't get his ass kicked by Wolverine, would anyone care about him?

[Username taken]

Personally, I don't care that much that Sabretooth did villainous things.

My problem with him is that he's BORING.

Psychopath, sociopath, whatever you want to call him, nothing is beyond the pale for him. Rape, murder, cannibalism, etc. Name a crime and there's little doubt that he'd do it.

But since he'd anything, nothing he does is interesting. He has no depth, no contradictions. With no character to help suspend disbelief, he's nothing more than a 2-D drawing wasting space.

Exactly.

The argument is that Sabretooth is basically “Evillllllllll” and that’s it.

Makes for a very boring character. No internal conflict, no depth, nothing.

Very.much a “zombie” character.

[mugiwara]

Personally, I don't care that much that Sabretooth did villainous things.

My problem with him is that he's BORING.

Psychopath, sociopath, whatever you want to call him, nothing is beyond the pale for him. Rape, murder, cannibalism, etc. Name a crime and there's little doubt that he'd do it.

But since he'd anything, nothing he does is interesting. He has no depth, no contradictions. With no character to help suspend disbelief, he's nothing more than a 2-D drawing wasting space.

Couldn't have said it better.
I feel the same about Bullseye too.
And Carnage and Joker, although I'll admit those two have either some depth or some lore behind them.

But it's also true that this kind of character is very popular, and even that first issue mostly featuring Creed's revenge porn got good reviews.

[Jackraow21]

Some boring character got 4 minis and 5 one-shots since 90s and now his latest issue ranks no.4 on comixology
Guess it gotta be boring readers continuity buying boring books lol

Yeah, I find him entertaining. Looking forward to buying the rest of this mini. *shrugs*

[Zelena]

I agree.

It's stuff like this that got Pepi Lepew canceled, for being "a rapist."…

You compare Pepe the Pew with… Sabretooth…

The problem is only when the authors, in the way they tell the story, are saying: “It’s not so important, you can overlook it…”

[Silver Fang]

Personally, I don't care that much that Sabretooth did villainous things.

My problem with him is that he's BORING.

Psychopath, sociopath, whatever you want to call him, nothing is beyond the pale for him. Rape, murder, cannibalism, etc. Name a crime and there's little doubt that he'd do it.

But since he'd anything, nothing he does is interesting. He has no depth, no contradictions. With no character to help suspend disbelief, he's nothing more than a 2-D drawing wasting space.

He's certainly turned into that over the last 2 decades but he did have some depth given to him prior to becoming a jobbing meathead that does stuff for cheap shock value.

Back in the 90's and early 2000's, he was intelligent, capable, and some stories did show he had internal conflict -namely his own insecurities which he masks with his loud mouth & "IDGAF" attitude. Combined with how unlike him, Wolverine managed to have friends & acceptance despite being similar to him (in Creed's mind).

His one-shot Mary, Shelly Overdrive shows him as very much still a villain but showed he was capable of loving someone (Bonnie) and having cordial relationships with women (Ruth and the women at her whorehouse who were actually happy to see him).

But sadly, all the stories of him just being a bland psycho from birth have taken over, and gives nothing to even the smaller things of yesteryear that give him a bit more depth and layers.

Hell if it hadn't been trashed, his bond with Monet could've served something. Still being very much a villain but having her as 1 soft point. Maybe he joins the X-Men or does the proper thing as favor to her from time to time, and out of respect for the relationship that had. Not much, but even that would be something more than "eat kittens and children." Speaking of the latter, the children & kitten eating being examples of writers just throwing in random disgusting shit for shock value because they can't be bothered to make a real effort with the character.

One reason this issue hasn't won me over enough to read in full, as it doesn't (least not so far) give him any depth beyond the fact he's just a psycho. And the fact the Origin story & story with Saul & Clara is being brought up further took me out, as that was another story that just showed him as a bland one-note psycho.

Origin tried to portray him as a pyscho from birth, and that his father was a good man or some kind of hero for chaining him up under guise of "trying to cleanse him of the devil." Whereas it has always been shown that his father was a POS, and was in fact wrong to treat Creed that way. If LaValle has this story as inspiration, I know not too expect much in terms of any depth being given to Creed's character.

I think he'd be a Psychopath now. Whereas he used to be a Sociopath when he had more character. I think the latter is a product of nurture, not nature. And while difficult, they actually can care for people & experience remorse or regret. That's a character you can get something out of. But the Psychopath is the one that born, and has nothing more to them than their own goal or interest -whatever it may be. And because they can't care about anything but themselves (sometimes not even that) and don't form attachments to others, they aren't characters to be focused on because there's nothing to really focus on. lol

[Silver Fang]

You compare Pepe the Pew with… Sabretooth…

The problem is only when the authors, in the way they tell the story, are saying: “It’s not so important, you can overlook it…”

The comparison is people overreacting. Both characters are cartoons & not genuinely hurting anyone. So the outrage needs to be saved & used for making legit real world changes that are actually effecting people. Raging over cartoons and trying to get people's favorite character cancelled is not it. lol Focused on the wrong thing, imo.

Same way Elmer Fudd isn't allowed to have guns anymore. Folks needs to grown up. Cartoons =/= reality.

[Jackraow21]

The comparison is people overreacting. Both characters are cartoons & not genuinely hurting anyone. So the outrage needs to be saved & used for making legit real world changes that are actually effecting people. Raging over cartoons is not it. lol

Plus unlike Pepe LePew, Sabretooth is a villain and was always conceived as such. Other than the AoA or when he was inverted, no one has tried to claim he’s a good guy. Are we now saying you can’t write fiction about bad people doing bad things? Christ…

[The Cool Thatguy]

Couldn't have said it better.
I feel the same about Bullseye too.
And Carnage and Joker, although I'll admit those two have either some depth or some lore behind them.

But it's also true that this kind of character is very popular, and even that first issue mostly featuring Creed's revenge porn got good reviews.

In defense of Joker, and only Joker, he at least has a theme or style that can be used in his stories if a writer wants to.

Bullseye, Carnage et all, just kill in vaguely different ways.

[Zelena]

The comparison is people overreacting. Both characters are cartoons & not genuinely hurting anyone. So the outrage needs to be saved & used for making legit real world changes that are actually effecting people. Raging over cartoons and trying to get people's favorite character cancelled is not it. lol Focused on the wrong thing, imo.

Same way Elmer Fudd isn't allowed to have guns anymore. Folks needs to grown up. Cartoons =/= reality.

The problem is not the character, it’s what the author implies…

We have Xavier, leader of the X-men, usually a good guy who grants an amnesty to some of the worst criminals of the Earth. Because they have redeemed themselves? Because they have become good? No, because they are mutants.

And who raises an eyebrow? Not one X-men.

Chuck Jones never implied that it was a good thing to harass people… We are on Penelope’s side, not on Pepe’s side.

[TheRay]

I mean he’s already considered evil, but even if prime Sabretooth is shot to hell just grab a different version of him.

[RamaBird]

Couldn't have said it better.
I feel the same about Bullseye too.
And Carnage and Joker, although I'll admit those two have either some depth or some lore behind them.

But it's also true that this kind of character is very popular, and even that first issue mostly featuring Creed's revenge porn got good reviews.

I love this character when done right. I think some villains don't need depth and backstories, but these characters need to be written well in order to work. I think Joker is the best example of this. To me, Sabretooth is a character that can never be redeemed so the only way I see him working is if they lean into the violent aspect of him. I also think it'd serve him well if he was kept away from Wolverine, and also if he was rarely used but always have him out there.

[Username taken]

The problem is not the character, it’s what the author implies…

We have Xavier, leader of the X-men, usually a good guy who grants an amnesty to some of the worst criminals of the Earth. Because they have redeemed themselves? Because they have become good? No, because they are mutants.

And who raises an eyebrow? Not one X-men.

Chuck Jones never implied that it was a good thing to harass people… We are on Penelope’s side, not on Pepe’s side.

That's the thing. When I started the thread it wasn't about "canceling Sabretooth"- a thread on CBR can not "cancel" Sabretooth.

The thread was about what writers have done with the character of Sabretooth. They've added so many layers of "bad" onto the character that it starts to become boring and paints the character into a corner. As some others have pointed out, there are other characters like that (like Joker and Carnage) but they need to be written in certain ways to make them interesting, Sabretooth seems to have been stripped of any redeeming qualities and has become almost entirely one-note.

[Midnight_v]

Doesn't that completely damn him as a character?

Unless there's been a retcon or something, I can't really see any redeeming qualities to the character.

Yes. but So what? This thread simply implies that rape is somehow the worst crime you can commit because *THIS* is where the line is drawn.
Murder, assassination, slaughter of the innocent, serial murders, cannibalism but the implication that him being a rapist "Damns him as a character"...
its just once more thing on big pile that makes him "the complete monster".
but so what if he is?

You're not supposed to like Sabertooth. Him being a rapist isn't even important.

He's supposed to represent evil. Unrelenting maniacal evil. Evil without remorse or conscious and its okay for there to be bad guys like that.
If fact I dare say its IMPORTANT for there to be bad guys like that. It makes it justified when heroes like wolverine actually want to kill him. It makes it logical even and creates tension as as a goal NOT to redeem evil
but to see how GOOD people deal with it. No one complains too much about Jason Vorhees, or Freddy Krueger having a one note M. O. but in comics there's always this weird push to fix monsters.
You say he's boring and one note but frankly you give the answer in the same post. "like Joker and Carnage but they need to be written in certain ways to make them interesting" so would he.

When I was young I read an X-factor book where he killed a character called "Mole" he was a morlock, he was sick and in tears because he'd fallen in love with girl Iceman was in love with "Opal", but y'know he was a morlock
who looked like a humanoid mole and after making sure she was safe with iceman he returned to the sewers where he was awaited but Sabertooth... who was talking about eating Mole..and I never saw mole in another book.
When I was a kid I was SICK thinking about that scene. I think of it everytime I see victor and when he gets done wrong or somehow gets curbstomped I still think of Mole. At his lowest point emotional turmoil, teary eyed, disgusted to look at his own reflection as he enters the barely lit sewer that fate had brought him to live in where he's confronted (before he can get home to cry himself to sleep) with white hot terror as sabertooth mentally and physically superior in everyway waiting to hunt and eat him. Terrible, but poignant. Sabretooth is a villain that is actually bad enough that heroes have the go a head to knock his block right off when needed, and thats honestly ok. Which is why he's rolling around semi-immortal like logan.