Why is Cheetah a weaklink 90% of the time?

[Nyssane]

The first thing Doomsday ever did was kill Superman in a massive crossover event

Technically, the first thing Cheetah did was conquer Paradise Island by stealing Hippolyta's girdle which is pretty noteworthy, especially considering this was Priscilla Rich and not the god-empowered Barbi Ann.

And even if Diana doesn't hate Cheetah the way Batman hates Joker...would that matter? Diana is not that sort of character to develop that kind of dynamic with any arch nemesis you throw at her

I think this is an important statement. I can't see Diana developing any level of hatred for someone like the one that Batman feels for Joker. I don't think she's capable of it.

Plus, Cheetahs a personal nemesis who has achieved iconic status and has managed to stick around. She put the work in, so DC is keeping her, Ares and Circe in the top spots as the arches, and I don't see it ever changing. Circe barely has a leg up on her because her motivation is even less consistent than Cheetahs, and doesn't have any grand philosophical goals beyond being a pest.

Five years ago, I definitely would have put Ares up there, but now? I don't think he's even close to being in the running for her arch anymore. He's had virtually no storylines where he's a villain in the past decade, and his comic history before that is very spotty. Not to mention he's often cited as the weakest part of the first WW film (which I agree with). I like Ares when done well, but he's been done well FAR less than even Cheetah or Circe, who have both had some good stories in the last 5 years.

Honestly, I don't really see Circe as much of a contender either though. Cheetah has some really bad stories under her belt, but that doesn't change the fact that she'll always be the villain DC shows Diana pitted against on promotional materials. Even if her reception in WW2 wasn't great.

[Perseus]

Give me ruthless, greedy, 'I'm not actually your friend', evil Indiana Jones, rich heiress Barabra Minerva any day of the week over whatever was WW1984 and current 'I can fix her' status quo Cheetah. I want Cheetah to be just bad, have her some sympathetic moments cause she's human, but irredeemable overall. I want Diana to genuinely question about killing Cheetah because of how far she's gone. Blood rituals, sacrifices, and mass murder. Give me were-wolf, rip and shred, tear your lungs out violence. That will make her interesting and an actual threat.

I do think this Urzkartaga origin thing does need to go, though. People here have said making her curse be more Egyptian God based with Barabra looking for the Bana instead of Themyscira, I'd be down for that.

[Perseus]

Ares will always be Number 1 for me, though. My list is Ares, Circe, Cheetah in that order for the top three.

[SiegePerilous02]

Technically, the first thing Cheetah did was conquer Paradise Island by stealing Hippolyta's girdle which is pretty noteworthy, especially considering this was Priscilla Rich and not the god-empowered Barbi Ann.

Between that, Justice and Batman the Brave and the Bold, Priscilla weirdly comes out with the better track record over her modern counterpart.

Five years ago, I definitely would have put Ares up there, but now? I don't think he's even close to being in the running for her arch anymore. He's had virtually no storylines where he's a villain in the past decade, and his comic history before that is very spotty. Not to mention he's often cited as the weakest part of the first WW film (which I agree with). I like Ares when done well, but he's been done well FAR less than even Cheetah or Circe, who have both had some good stories in the last 5 years.

Honestly, I don't really see Circe as much of a contender either though. Cheetah has some really bad stories under her belt, but that doesn't change the fact that she'll always be the villain DC shows Diana pitted against on promotional materials. Even if her reception in WW2 wasn't great.

I guess just looking at the overall history of the franchise, I'd put Ares and Circe as on par. But recently, yeah I'd say they aren't looking too hot and are below her.

With Circe, while she does get the big event stories, it's undercut by the fact that they aren't that good. . Her first story in Perez's run was great, but War of the Gods was a bloated bore. And then there's Amazons Attack!, which...nuff said (and wasn't it actually a Granny Goodness plot anyway?).

Give me ruthless, greedy, 'I'm not actually your friend', evil Indiana Jones, rich heiress Barabra Minerva any day of the week over whatever was WW1984 and current 'I can fix her' status quo Cheetah. I want Cheetah to be just bad, have her some sympathetic moments cause she's human, but irredeemable overall. I want Diana to genuinely question about killing Cheetah because of how far she's gone. Blood rituals, sacrifices, and mass murder. Give me were-wolf, rip and shred, tear your lungs out violence. That will make her interesting and an actual threat.

Problem with that is, going back to Marston, one of the core ideas of the Cheetah is someone who is constantly at war with her good and bad sides, and she doesn't really work when that is deviated from. When she's pure evil, she ends up becoming a generic slasher villain. Despite a promising start, that's what the Post-Crisis version devolved into, and the New 52 one was even worse.

I do think this Urzkartaga origin thing does need to go, though. People here have said making her curse be more Egyptian God based with Barabra looking for the Bana instead of Themyscira, I'd be down for that.

Mafdet really should be the goddess that curses Barbara when her recklessness causes her to defile a sacred tomb or something. So she gives Barbara what she thinks she wants in the worst way possible.

Actually, were the Egyptian deities big on cursing mortals? I know the Greek ones were total dicks and dished out that **** like Halloween candy, but I'm not as familiar with the Egyptian pantheon to know if that would be in character for them. Not that DC taking liberties with that would be news at this point.

[Nyssane]

They've kind of done the Egyptian angle with Nubia and Sekhmet. At this point it wouldn't seem original to do it with Cheetah.

[Gaius]

Honestly, I think Circe's closed in on Cheetah's position.

She's been sporadic in WW's solo book since Rucka but she was also the major threat in the WW-led JLD team. Which, only personally speaking, I liked quite a bit more than many of the recent WW runs.

I think the only thing she lags behind when it comes to Cheetah is media adaptations.

[Vordan]

Honestly, I think Circe's closed in on Cheetah's position.

She's been sporadic in WW's solo book since Rucka but she was also the major threat in the WW-led JLD team. Which, only personally speaking, I liked quite a bit more than many of the recent WW runs.

I think the only thing she lags behind when it comes to Cheetah is media adaptations.

Which is why I’m hoping she’s the video game Big Bad. That + her almost assuredly being the big bad of WW3 would cement her as tog dog in Diana’s Rogues Gallery. Also JLD was the best DC book with WW in it since Rucka and she was a major villain in that so she comes out ahead in comics currently. Bummer that Rucka never did a big story with her during Rebirth.

[Gaius]

Which is why I’m hoping she’s the video game Big Bad. That + her almost assuredly being the big bad of WW3 would cement her as tog dog in Diana’s Rogues Gallery. Also JLD was the best DC book with WW in it since Rucka and she was a major villain in that so she comes out ahead in comics currently. Bummer that Rucka never did a big story with her during Rebirth.

Yeah, I think if she's the villain in the game (and it's good) than that'd be a big blow to Cheetah as the default enemy.

Plus I've tended to just think Circe's an easier sell to an audiences than Cheetah given how ingrained the Wicked Witch character type is.

[Alpha]

Technically, the first thing Cheetah did was conquer Paradise Island by stealing Hippolyta's girdle which is pretty noteworthy, especially considering this was Priscilla Rich and not the god-empowered Barbi Ann.

I've stated many times that a revamped Priscilla Rich is much more interesting than Barbara Minnerva.

But I would abandon the friendemy plot. Never liked that and it's ridiculous for Diana to still arbor any positive feelings for someone that desires intense pain, humiliation and desperation unto others.

Priscilla Rich should be like Marla from Fight Club. Apathetic, unsatisfied with life, bitter and nauseous.


And then when she puts on the skin of the dead mythicals beasts she slaughtered, she gets that "high" of vicious power and pleasure of violence.

[Alpha]

Also, she oughta go by the name "Chimerah" instead of Cheetah

[Vordan]

If Batman still feels bad for Two-Face or Harley, or Superman wants to believe that Lex can be redeemed, I don’t think it’s a problem that Wonder Woman feels bad for Cheetah and wants to cure/help her. What needs to be explored more is why Barbara doesn’t want to give up being Cheetah. Her being addicted to the power because she feels so inferior to Diana is great, I just want it be focused on and explored more. There’s gold to be mined with Cheetah in a story that examines the unintentional impacts Diana has on the self image of women by way of contrast, and how that hampers her mission.

Yeah, I think if she's the villain in the game (and it's good) than that'd be a big blow to Cheetah as the default enemy.

Plus I've tended to just think Circe's an easier sell to an audiences than Cheetah given how ingrained the Wicked Witch character type is.

She’s so delightfully evil in a very entertaining way.

[Alpha]

If Batman still feels bad for Two-Face or Harley, or Superman wants to believe that Lex can be redeemed, I don’t think it’s a problem that Wonder Woman feels bad for Cheetah and wants to cure/help her.

Two facd is the most annoying villain in Batman's rogue gallery. If they leaned on the "twisted notion of law" instead of "please Harvey be good" he would actually be interesting.

In fact, the best Two face stories were about his complicated idea of justicd, not about Batman trying to save him (which gets duller every time)

And there aren't many stories about Superman trying to redeem Lex since Post Crisis. Heck, the only one I know that did anything with that concept (since 1985) was All Star Superman and that story didn't have Clark begging Lex to be better the whole time, it just had that moment at the end of them having a conversation. Clark wasn't sad or frustated about Lex being a narcissist.

Heck, I'm a huge fan of Smallville, and even on that show, once Lex turned evil, Clark closed the door and wasn't spending his time pining after a former friend that didn't deserve it.

[SiegePerilous02]

Which is why I’m hoping she’s the video game Big Bad. That + her almost assuredly being the big bad of WW3 would cement her as tog dog in Diana’s Rogues Gallery. Also JLD was the best DC book with WW in it since Rucka and she was a major villain in that so she comes out ahead in comics currently. Bummer that Rucka never did a big story with her during Rebirth.

At this rate, are we even sure WW3 is happening?

I know they said Gadot will be appearing in more movies. But ..they say a lot of things.

[Perseus]

At this rate, are we even sure WW3 is happening?

I know they said Gadot will be appearing in more movies. But ..they say a lot of things.

After the new corporate overlord did away with so many films and tv productions, under the guise of tax write off (ironically costing the company billions), WB only had the money to release 2 films; Don't Worry Darling which bombed and Black Adam. The Rock is really the only thing keeping this thing alive.

[Vordan]

At this rate, are we even sure WW3 is happening?

I know they said Gadot will be appearing in more movies. But ..they say a lot of things.

I don’t know how to respond without spoilers but spoilers:

she’s in Shazam 2 where she actually brings Billy back to life.

end of spoilers She assuredly will be in the next JL. WW3 happening is a safe bet, but it’s also a safe bet that movie will be her last.