Why is Cheetah a weaklink 90% of the time?

[WonderScott]

Can't disagree, with such a scholarly and generally even-handed critique of this character. Well acquitted, Scott.

Thank you. I have no idea why people have such a limited view of Barbara and just want to dial it in with her. She can be powerful and flawed. Both things can be true at the same time.

[Mel Dyer]

Thank you. I have no idea why people have such a limited view of Barbara and just want to dial it in with her. She can be powerful and flawed. Both things can be true at the same time.

Probably burn-out ..and Wonder Woman 1984. That's not entirely fair...but, if we're being honest?

[Alpha]

Thank you. I have no idea why people have such a limited view of Barbara and just want to dial it in with her. She can be powerful and flawed. Both things can be true at the same time.

I just think Priscilla Rich has far more potential both in terms of story and design. She wears the skin of a freaking dead animal! This is a classic symbol of danger in myths and folklore. It signifies power in almost all cases. Think Hercules and the Lion skin.

And I would much rather have a revamped take on that character than Barbara Minnerva

[Hoodj]

I agree that there are more important things than "stats." However I don't think "stats" should be completely dismissed either. A character's capabilities are an aspect of who they are. Again, not the most important by any means, but they are a factor.

Let me give you an example. One of my favourite characters in Naruto is Uchiha Mikoto. I like her because she's caring and warm-hearted. I don't care that she isn't the most powerful ninja ever or whatever. However at the same time, she was a jounin before retiring. That is an aspect of her. If I read a flashback story that had her losing to inferior foes, I would strongly dislike that.



When? When did Doomsday get knocked out by Batman with one punch (again, regular Batman without any super-armour or anything)? When did Catwoman get up from being punched by Doomsday? When did Catwoman boot Doomsday in the face hard enough to make him feel it without breaking her own foot?

Doesnt exist.

[Mel Dyer]

I just think Priscilla Rich has far more potential both in terms of story and design. She wears the skin of a freaking dead animal! This is a classic symbol of danger in myths and folklore. It signifies power in almost all cases. Think Hercules and the Lion skin.

And I would much rather have a revamped take on that character than Barbara Minnerva

Honestly, I don't think we've ever net Bar Minerva...

Or had a writer articulate exactly what she wants, because the Cheetah-identity, seeing herself as a fuzzy cat monster, always gets in the way. From lusting after the lasso to her dreams of ruling Paradise Island to the 'Olympus or bust' Godkiller rampage thing, it seems there isn't one writer, who can just tell us she wants. Again...the retconned lost friend, 'candle in the wind' thing, which shifts the gravity of wanting something ..to Diana, ..doesn't really impact us, that much, and it can't.

The lost friend relieves writers of the burden of giving Cheetah or Barbara, because she's just this wild animal, Diana's chasing around, hoping to catch and restore to humanity. It isn't sustainable, because there isn't enough narrative work in the canon, that we feel the great loss to Diana of a friendship, that wasn't there for us, the reader, ..to emotionally invest in, in the first place! It's an empty barrel...a bad, flimsy narrative illusion or trick. For the writer, just keep Barbara running and hurting people or threatening to ..and hope we don't notice that Cheetah has no real motivation.

She's just running.

What does this lady want? What has all of her ranting and stomping around and scratching supposed to accomplish, in her eyes? What does any of that have to do, with what Wonder Woman left the Island to get or accomplish - what's most important to Diana, as an Amazon? Diana left the Island to fight for freedom and hope -her Amazon mission - but how does Cheetah threaten that? How does chasing Cheetah around realize what Diana wants?

I think Cheetah's got to be re-oriented, narratively speaking.

We don't really know what Bar Minerva wants, because writers haven't had to tell us that, consistently. We need a writer to illustrate what Bar wants, in the long run, and how that threatens Diana. We need a writer to illustrate how what Bar wants is threatened by Diana, driving the need to destroy her! As I see it, the Cheetah-power - the totality of her fur, claws, strength, speed - must be treated by writers, as Bar's weapon, and not some hokey alternate identity, that cheats Diana out of a retconned friendship, that never existed ..and which we can't emotionally invest in. The Cheetah-power is Bar's Golden Lasso, the tool with which she pursues a specific ambition, ..and that's all it's ever really needed to be, I think.

I don't think we've ever truly met Barbara. We need that revamp, badly.

[Alpha]

As far as I'm concerned, there's no salvaging Barbara Minnerva as a character. Geoff Johns actually did the best one could do with the werewolf that could spread the curse and corrupted a god.

But her design was still a complete failure. No version of Cheetah ever looked like a proper archenemy for Diana. But Priscilla could with a proper redesign centered around her wearing the carcass of a mythical that she slayed around her body like a suit.

[Mel Dyer]

As far as I'm concerned, there's no salvaging Barbara Minnerva as a character. Geoff Johns actually did the best one could do with the werewolf that could spread the curse and corrupted a god.

But her design was still a complete failure. No version of Cheetah ever looked like a proper archenemy for Diana. But Priscilla could with a proper redesign centered around her wearing the carcass of a mythical that she slayed around her body like a suit.

I'm concerned, there's no salvaging Barbara Minerva as a character, because we're all so tired of her. Seriously, there's a big bag of fan-tired on Twitter and other social media and forums, with Cheetah's name on it.

I don't want to see her done away with, but, would very much like to see creative teams give Cheetah an entirely new orientation - Barbara is the identity, and NOT Cheetah - and consistent motivation. One way to re-orient her would be to switch her out, with the post-52 Priscilla Rich, who is very creepy and interesting. Short of that, crown another archenemy [JANUS!] for Wonder Woman.

If Cheetah could eat Grail, she's the queen! I'm back in her camp. Just forget everything I've typed, for the last THREE days.

[WonderScott]

Probably burn-out ..and Wonder Woman 1984. That's not entirely fair...but, if we're being honest?

True. But that’s also why I think she needs to be thought of in new ways.

[WonderScott]

I just think Priscilla Rich has far more potential both in terms of story and design. She wears the skin of a freaking dead animal! This is a classic symbol of danger in myths and folklore. It signifies power in almost all cases. Think Hercules and the Lion skin.

And I would much rather have a revamped take on that character than Barbara Minnerva

I don’t dislike Priscilla and how she was used in the Golden Age based on what they knew and assumed about psychology at the time. I’ve been working on how to include her in my Wonder Woman Series Bible Thingee.

At the same, I think Barbara can be a strong character as well, given more creative thought behind who she is and why she does what she does.

[WonderScott]

Honestly, I don't think we've ever net Bar Minerva...

Or had a writer articulate exactly what she wants, because the Cheetah-identity, seeing herself as a fuzzy cat monster, always gets in the way. From lusting after the lasso to her dreams of ruling Paradise Island to the 'Olympus or bust' Godkiller rampage thing, it seems there isn't one writer, who can just tell us she wants. Again...the retconned lost friend, 'candle in the wind' thing, which shifts the gravity of wanting something ..to Diana, ..doesn't really impact us, that much, and it can't.

The lost friend relieves writers of the burden of giving Cheetah or Barbara, because she's just this wild animal, Diana's chasing around, hoping to catch and restore to humanity. It isn't sustainable, because there isn't enough narrative work in the canon, that we feel the great loss to Diana of a friendship, that wasn't there for us, the reader, ..to emotionally invest in, in the first place! It's an empty barrel...a bad, flimsy narrative illusion or trick. For the writer, just keep Barbara running and hurting people or threatening to ..and hope we don't notice that Cheetah has no real motivation.

She's just running.

What does this lady want? What has all of her ranting and stomping around and scratching supposed to accomplish, in her eyes? What does any of that have to do, with what Wonder Woman left the Island to get or accomplish - what's most important to Diana, as an Amazon? Diana left the Island to fight for freedom and hope -her Amazon mission - but how does Cheetah threaten that? How does chasing Cheetah around realize what Diana wants?

I think Cheetah's got to be re-oriented, narratively speaking.

We don't really know what Bar Minerva wants, because writers haven't had to tell us that, consistently. We need a writer to illustrate what Bar wants, in the long run, and how that threatens Diana. We need a writer to illustrate how what Bar wants is threatened by Diana, driving the need to destroy her! As I see it, the Cheetah-power - the totality of her fur, claws, strength, speed - must be treated by writers, as Bar's weapon, and not some hokey alternate identity, that cheats Diana out of a retconned friendship, that never existed ..and which we can't emotionally invest in. The Cheetah-power is Bar's Golden Lasso, the tool with which she pursues a specific ambition, ..and that's all it's ever really needed to be, I think.

I don't think we've ever truly met Barbara. We need that revamp, badly.

There’s a lot of truth in this post.

One angle I always appreciated from the Perez origin and always think about is that Barbara kinda stumbled into becoming a being that can take on the Wonders, Supers, Shazames, Martians, etc., right after acting horrifically to adventurers with her. She’s Machiavellian and the theme of being “cursed” pre and post being Cheetah-fied always weighs heavily in my mind when it comes to thinking about what I think she wants and why she does what she does. She’s a victim in many ways and an isolated individual in many ways, but she also claws out agency for herself being driven by less-than-virtuous motives based on where she’s found herself now.

[Alpha]

I don’t dislike Priscilla and how she was used in the Golden Age based on what they knew and assumed about psychology at the time. I’ve been working on how to include her in my Wonder Woman Series Bible Thingee.

She doesn't need a personality disorder.

[WonderLight789]

LOl at the people blaming Barbra and not the writing. While saying priscilla is a better Cheetah. You can change the name, the costume. As long as you have sexist and clueless writing with cluless and likely sexist editors. Nothing will change.

[WonderScott]

She doesn't need a personality disorder.

I don’t think so either.

[Alpha]

LOl at the people blaming Barbra and not the writing. While saying priscilla is a better Cheetah. You can change the name, the costume. As long as you have sexist and clueless writing with cluless and likely sexist editors. Nothing will change.

Nah, Barbara is boring.

[WonderLight789]

Nah, Barbara is boring.

So is pricsicilla. And she is a weaklink on top of that. That has no place to be trading blows with an allegedly Goddess.