Why is Cheetah a weaklink 90% of the time?

[phonogram12]

Ok I'll be honest. At what point is being an archenemy means being someone that ideologically stands against the main character vs someone that just fights the character a lot?

Not a knock against Cheetah at all (honest), but many of the best comic book supervillains are ideologically the opposite of their counterparts. Superman and Lex. Batman and Joker. Captain America and Red Skull. Professor X and Magneto. Even Wolverine and Sabretooth to an extent. It's not really a new phenomenon.

[WonderLight789]

Not a knock against Cheetah at all (honest), but many of the best comic book supervillains are ideologically the opposite of their counterparts. Superman and Lex. Batman and Joker. Captain America and Red Skull. Professor X and Magneto. Even Wolverine and Sabretooth to an extent. It's not really a new phenomenon.

Cheetah can focus about that after she finds a way to stop being a punching bag for street levelers. That look is not helping the WW lore. Since the hero is only as good as their villlains. Cheetah being treated like a jobber is another thing that affects the WW verse in a bad way.

[phonogram12]

Cheetah can focus about that after she finds a way to stop being a punching bag for street levelers. That look is not helping the WW lore. Since the hero is only as good as their villlains. Cheetah being treated like a jobber is another thing that affects the WW verse in a bad way.

See, I can't agree with that. Making a character interesting is more important than making her powerful. If being powerful = super interesting, Marvel's Champion of the Universe would be Marvel's no. 1 draw.

Never heard of him? That's not surprising.

[Amazon Swordsman]

Yeah, I think cheetah needs some serious buffs before trying to hash out why or how she can function as the antithesis to WW. If you can fight her one-on-one, getting knocked around by bat-level characters isn’t gonna work.

[WonderLight789]

See, I can't agree with that. Making a character interesting is more important than making her powerful. If being powerful = super interesting, Marvel's Champion of the Universe would be Marvel's no. 1 draw.

Never heard of him? That's not surprising.

And making a character interesting shouldn't required to nerf the character and make her a jobber. What is so interesting about Cheetah getting beaten up by catwoman 4 times already. One punched by batman. Green Arrow., Steve Trevor. Killed by jason with a bullet. Killed by a random dude with a gun etc. What is so instersting about that? Where is the quality in those stories that portrayed her as a weaklink?

[BiteTheBullet]

Let's say Catwoman took on Black Adam or Mongul. And she beat them. How does this look to Superman fans? How would this hypothetically help Supermans character out? I can infer if this happened, then we really wouldn't need superheroes at all as it would take a street level fighter or Bruce Lee to solve all our problems.

Of course that wouldn't happen because the editors wouldn't let that happen. So why does it happen to a demi-goddess or blessed by multiple gods superhero known as Wonder Woman? Why is she consistently getting weaker as the years go on only for other heroes, such as Aquaman, getting stronger? Hmmm.....is it because she is a female? And another way to get a sense that she is weaker, why can't any member of the Batfamily take on Wondy since they seem to have a good track record against prominent villains of hers such as the Cheetah? I am waiting for the day when Batman does a one shot punchout of Wondy.

But of course, if she does lose to people like Batman in the future, or if her rogues gallery keeps jobbing out to the street levelers, it shouldn't matter because the story and characterization of Diana was that damn good!

I think when Grant Morrison made the Bat-god back in the day, it made for some truly stupid stories inspired by that.

[Perseus]

Not a knock against Cheetah at all (honest), but many of the best comic book supervillains are ideologically the opposite of their counterparts. Superman and Lex. Batman and Joker. Captain America and Red Skull. Professor X and Magneto. Even Wolverine and Sabretooth to an extent. It's not really a new phenomenon.

Lex was never introduced as an archenemy though, was he? He sort of evolved into that as writers played more into the selfish corporate billionaire aspect and Clarks down to earth everyday man, then further adding layers. Same thing with Bats and Joker, never started that way. Red Skull is a Nazi... Cap is literally the embodiment of US idealism and integrity. Magneto and X, I'll give you that because of the clear differences in ideals about mutants from the get-go. I never said it was a new phenomenon, just that I didn't really see Cheetah as archenemy type because of her origins, even looking at it from her most ideological opposed version, Diana believing in selflessness and Cheetah in Greed. Because, like Del stated, Diana didn't leave the island to stop Cheetah in particular.

[Perseus]

See, I can't agree with that. Making a character interesting is more important than making her powerful. If being powerful = super interesting, Marvel's Champion of the Universe would be Marvel's no. 1 draw.

Never heard of him? That's not surprising.

And what do people think of a furry that supposedly can fight against demigod Wonder Woman one on one, only to be easily taken care of by members of the bat family constantly? What's the draw in that?

[phonogram12]

And making a character interesting shouldn't required to nerf the character and make her a jobber. What is so interesting about Cheetah getting beaten up by catwoman 4 times already. One punched by batman. Green Arrow., Steve Trevor. Killed by jason with a bullet. Killed by a random dude with a gun etc. What is so instersting about that? Where is the quality in those stories that portrayed her as a weaklink?

Never said it did. You can make a character interesting without it having anything to do with how many people the character did or did not beat. A story solely about a character beating other characters isn't particularly interesting, either.

Lex was never introduced as an archenemy though, was he? He sort of evolved into that as writers played more into the selfish corporate billionaire aspect and Clarks down to earth everyday man, then further adding layers. Same thing with Bats and Joker, never started that way. Red Skull is a Nazi... Cap is literally the embodiment of US idealism and integrity. Magneto and X, I'll give you that because of the clear differences in ideals about mutants from the get-go. I never said it was a new phenomenon, just that I didn't really see Cheetah as archenemy type because of her origins, even looking at it from her most ideological opposed version, Diana believing in selflessness and Cheetah in Greed. Because, like Del stated, Diana didn't leave the island to stop Cheetah in particular.

Okay. None of that particularly makes her more interesting, though.

And what do people think of a furry that supposedly can fight against demigod Wonder Woman one on one, only to be easily taken care of by members of the bat family constantly? What's the draw in that?

By itself? Absolutely nothing. The draw is in the characters. Giving a crap about the characters is what makes people root for them. Like it or not, people give a crap about many of the Bat characters because of their characterization, not because of they can or can't beat. That comes second.

Let's say Catwoman took on Black Adam or Mongul. And she beat them. How does this look to Superman fans? How would this hypothetically help Supermans character out? I can infer if this happened, then we really wouldn't need superheroes at all as it would take a street level fighter or Bruce Lee to solve all our problems.

Of course that wouldn't happen because the editors wouldn't let that happen. So why does it happen to a demi-goddess or blessed by multiple gods superhero known as Wonder Woman? Why is she consistently getting weaker as the years go on only for other heroes, such as Aquaman, getting stronger? Hmmm.....is it because she is a female? And another way to get a sense that she is weaker, why can't any member of the Batfamily take on Wondy since they seem to have a good track record against prominent villains of hers such as the Cheetah? I am waiting for the day when Batman does a one shot punchout of Wondy.

But of course, if she does lose to people like Batman in the future, or if her rogues gallery keeps jobbing out to the street levelers, it shouldn't matter because the story and characterization of Diana was that damn good!

I think when Grant Morrison made the Bat-god back in the day, it made for some truly stupid stories inspired by that.

Honestly, I'd rather have an interesting character than one who's only draw is that their invincible. I just don't see how only that can be appealing at all. As for sexism, I don't think I've argued that in the slightest. Pretty sure you've got me confused with someone else.

[Primal Slayer]

And what do people think of a furry that supposedly can fight against demigod Wonder Woman one on one, only to be easily taken care of by members of the bat family constantly? What's the draw in that?

Same thing they think about Superman/Darkseid being beaten by Batman

[phonogram12]

God, it really does sound like some around here just want some really vacuous stories.

[Perseus]

Same thing they think about Superman/Darkseid being beaten by Batman

Except Superman and Darksied have mountains of other source material where they are top dogs and powerhouses. Cheetah gets minor cameos with little dialogue. These are not the same level.

[Perseus]

God, it really does sound like some around here just want some really vacuous stories.

we don't, this is an actual strawman btw.

[Perseus]

Okay. None of that particularly makes her more interesting, though.



By itself? Absolutely nothing. The draw is in the characters. Giving a crap about the characters is what makes people root for them. Like it or not, people give a crap about many of the Bat characters because of their characterization, not because of they can or can't beat. That comes second.

Ok then, make Cheetah "interesting" you seem to think that action and powers aren't that important anyway. What makes or would make Cheetah "interesting"? For the record, nobody is asking Cheetah to be a mindless zombie who just fights people. But pop off, I guess. Part of characterization is seeing what the character can achieve the Bat fam is notable for plenty of accomplishments. What is Cheetah known for?

[WonderLight789]

Ok then, make Cheetah "interesting" you seem to think that action and powers aren't that important anyway. What makes or would make Cheetah "interesting"? For the record, nobody is asking Cheetah to be a mindless zombie who just fights people. But pop off, I guess. Part of characterization is seeing what the character can achieve the Bat fam is notable for plenty of accomplishments. What is Cheetah known for?

What he says makes no sense. Asking for Cheetah to not be a jobber doesn't mean that people only want her to be a mindlesss fighting machine. What is hard to understand about that? Some people here act like we should be ok with the idea that a character powered up by a God that fights WW. Can be put down in a random physical fight by an acrobatic honry kleptomaniac with a whip. Without any explanation. But oh wel doesn't matter because the story. yeah action and power levels are part of a story too. And if catwoman is fighting Cheetah. I want an explanation to how she can do so with far weaker stats.