Batman/Catwoman #10 Preview

[Johnny]

I don't think he will. But he could! It would be pretty darn close to Sins Past - except that it's explicitly Elseworlds, so that doesn't matter as much.

DC's priorities are always very goofy. They let Morrison do what he did to Talia and Batman, then halfheartedly retcon it, then retcon it back...it's so bizarre

Yeah it doesn't bother me that it's not in continuity, it just leaves a really bad taste. Editorial should sometimes still hit the breaks on the wildest fan fictions, canon or not. lol

[TravelerInTheDark]

This book is a great litmus test for how King's sycophants will hail everything he writes as some seminal work of art.

There's little to no enjoyment to be found here. Bruce and Selina barely even seem to interact in this book, and when they do it's cold and harsh, like they secretly (or not so secretly) hate each other. The Catwoman/Joker stuff makes no sense to anyone with even the slightest pulse on Selina's character. The constant shuffling between eras feels like a failed experiment that serves to interrupt any bit of narrative flow the book might have found over it's insanely decompressed issues. How are you going to take this seriously when you have Selina Kyle lambasting Joker for being too SANE in direct opposition to her self-assessed "insanity"? And when she musters up more emotion regarding her relationship with the Joker than she does in regards to her relationship to Bruce or even Helena? I mean I could spend all day labeling all the myriad specificities of this series that I take serious issue with.

Obviously I'm too invested in these characters to just ignore a book that by all qualifications should have been great, and had a positive impact on the characters involved. This is the price I pay for buying into the machine.

I originally did not agree at all with DC forcing King off the Batman title, but if this was how he planned to finish out his run, then I agree whole-heartedly with their decision.

[phonogram12]

I mean, you can like a writer without being a "sycophant." For the most part, did I enjoy his Batman run? Yeah, actually, I really did. Were certain arcs better than others? Of course, but I think you can say that about any writer. I also liked his Mr. Miracle and am currently really enjoying The Human Target. On the flipside, I really didn't care much for either Heroes in Crisis or Strange Adventures.

I'll never understand why people get so worked up about someone liking something they don't personally like.

[millernumber1]

This book is a great litmus test for how King's sycophants will hail everything he writes as some seminal work of art.

There's little to no enjoyment to be found here. Bruce and Selina barely even seem to interact in this book, and when they do it's cold and harsh, like they secretly (or not so secretly) hate each other. The Catwoman/Joker stuff makes no sense to anyone with even the slightest pulse on Selina's character. The constant shuffling between eras feels like a failed experiment that serves to interrupt any bit of narrative flow the book might have found over it's insanely decompressed issues. How are you going to take this seriously when you have Selina Kyle lambasting Joker for being too SANE in direct opposition to her self-assessed "insanity"? And when she musters up more emotion regarding her relationship with the Joker than she does in regards to her relationship to Bruce or even Helena? I mean I could spend all day labeling all the myriad specificities of this series that I take serious issue with.

Obviously I'm too invested in these characters to just ignore a book that by all qualifications should have been great, and had a positive impact on the characters involved. This is the price I pay for buying into the machine.

I originally did not agree at all with DC forcing King off the Batman title, but if this was how he planned to finish out his run, then I agree whole-heartedly with their decision.

Ah, yes. I am a notorious sychophant who...hated Strange Adventures, disliked Mister Miracle, finds Sheriff of Babylon boring, thinks the first half of his Batman run is much worse than the second half, am rather stomach-churningly frustrated with Rorschach, find Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow annoying, and am a bit on the fence about Love Everlasting.

Yes, I love the second half of his Batman run, Bat/Cat, Omega Men, Vision, Superman: Up in the Sky, and am really enjoying Human Target (though that could go down the Mister Miracle and Strange Adventures path, where the endings truly ruined the beginnings). But I hardly think that I qualify as a sychophant at all.

I will agree there's not enough Bruce in the book. That is a bad advertisement. But it doesn't make it a bad story. Selina and Joker's three stages of relationship - shared affinity of people stuck in bad places, then one who grows up and one who doesn't, then one literally cutting the other out of her life - seems quite sensible to me. The era shuffling is not always the most graceful thing, but there does seem to be a lot of thought put into how it works and how it's connecting to the developing tension.

You of course don't have to like the book. But accusing everyone who does of being a sycophant? Over the line.

I mean, you can like a writer without being a "sycophant." For the most part, did I enjoy his Batman run? Yeah, actually, I really did. Were certain arcs better than others? Of course, but I think you can say that about any writer. I also liked his Mr. Miracle and am currently really enjoying The Human Target. On the flipside, I really didn't care much for either Heroes in Crisis or Strange Adventures.

I'll never understand why people get so worked up about someone liking something they don't personally like.

Agreed.

[TravelerInTheDark]

I will agree there's not enough Bruce in the book. That is a bad advertisement. But it doesn't make it a bad story.

It's one of the many symptoms of which combine to make it a bad story.

Selina and Joker's three stages of relationship - shared affinity of people stuck in bad places, then one who grows up and one who doesn't, then one literally cutting the other out of her life - seems quite sensible to me.

Selina's compassion for otherwise innocent people forced into tough situations relates to the Joker how, exactly? And furthermore, how does this concede itself to some kind of off-panel, long-lasting and close bond they apparently shared all-of-a-sudden? It's quite honestly the opposite of sensible.

So in your view, this is a well-written Selina? Her being nigh-completely apathetic to the deaths of innocents at the hands of her best friend the Joker...until it affects her personally, and then starts to struggle with some second thoughts. Mutilating a corpse and hanging it in public. Looking to a maniacal mass-murderer for moral reassurance. Constantly crying "woe-is-me" and generally being incredibly unlikable as she talks down to everyone she interacts with. She, at best, expresses serious sociopathy constantly throughout the book. This isn't at all a "shades of gray" situation, like has made up a core foundation of the character for decades at this point.

Where's the charm? Where's the character everyone signed up to read about? Where's the dynamic between her and Batman that the book's title espoused? As far as I'm concerned, this book basically has no Catwoman, no Batman, and certainly no BatCat.

If King has done anything well in this book, it's make a strong case as to why Batman should want nothing to do with Catwoman.

The era shuffling is not always the most graceful thing, but there does seem to be a lot of thought put into how it works and how it's connecting to the developing tension.

By what, stringent similarities? Each "timeline" feels like different puzzle pieces that A) don't fit with each other, and B) aren't anywhere near completing a full puzzle of their own. And with how King manages to do in 4 issues what an average writer does in 1, the outlook for a satisfying conclusion doesn't look good.

[millernumber1]

I like how you completely ignore the actual point of my post just to rant and rave.

[regg215]

This book is a great litmus test for how King's sycophants will hail everything he writes as some seminal work of art.

There's little to no enjoyment to be found here. Bruce and Selina barely even seem to interact in this book, and when they do it's cold and harsh, like they secretly (or not so secretly) hate each other. The Catwoman/Joker stuff makes no sense to anyone with even the slightest pulse on Selina's character. The constant shuffling between eras feels like a failed experiment that serves to interrupt any bit of narrative flow the book might have found over it's insanely decompressed issues. How are you going to take this seriously when you have Selina Kyle lambasting Joker for being too SANE in direct opposition to her self-assessed "insanity"? And when she musters up more emotion regarding her relationship with the Joker than she does in regards to her relationship to Bruce or even Helena? I mean I could spend all day labeling all the myriad specificities of this series that I take serious issue with.

Obviously I'm too invested in these characters to just ignore a book that by all qualifications should have been great, and had a positive impact on the characters involved. This is the price I pay for buying into the machine.

I originally did not agree at all with DC forcing King off the Batman title, but if this was how he planned to finish out his run, then I agree whole-heartedly with their decision.

Completely agree with this, I am pretty much a Tom King Fanboy in terms of his writing, Vision is probably my favorite run of any comic I have ever read, I loved strange adventures (although the ending was disappointing), rorschach, mister miracle, sheriff of babylon, omega men and Human Target has been great so far. Even Heroes in crisis was something I enjoyed, even if I understood the criticisms that others had. I was incredibly upset when he was replaced early on batman, as I felt that was among the greatest batman runs ever, this was the comic I was most anticipating over the last few years and I have to say if not for the fact that I am a completionist, I would have dropped this book two issues ago. This comic is seemingly everything wrong with modern comics, it is built on a false premise to fans, its overpriced, endlessly delayed and overly long for the sake of it being 12 issues. It promised a batman/catwoman title focused on their relationship and instead is a catwoman solo book that treats bruce as a whipping boy. Selina interacts with Helena and Joker significantly more than batman so it doesn't even make good on the promise of showing how their relationship changes each character. Selina has said &%#& you to bruce more than anything else at this point. The multiple storylines are so convoluted that instead of reading 3 interesting plotlines, you have 3 plots that go no where. None of the characters in this book are acting anywhere close to in character and while I know king has done that before, its one thing to take a lesser known character like adam strange and write an out of continuity story that takes some risks, its another when you take batman, catwoman and joker and write a sequel to an almost 100 issue run and none of the characters act anything like themselves. King has absolutely failed with this series, I will finish the run because I am a completionist and while King's name being on a comic will still make me want to buy it, I have to admit this series has made me understand alot more of the complaints some had of his work and has majorly impacted my anticipation for his future batman stuff, which prior to this I did not think was possible. At this point the Helena as Joker's daughter theory actually seems more like a certainty than anything else and if that happens, I am not sure how King would ever be trusted to write anything batman ever again. It would be like sins past times x 100.I truly hope that is not the ending we get but man it seems headed that way at this point.

[phonogram12]

I like how you completely ignore the actual point of my post just to rant and rave.

It's what people do when they can't counter said point.

[TravelerInTheDark]

It's what people do when they can't counter said point.

More like when people have zero interest in engaging a petty personal argument and wasting everyone's time and possibly derailing a thread instead of actually discussing the book.

[phonogram12]

More like when people have zero interest in engaging a petty personal argument and wasting everyone's time and possibly derailing a thread instead of actually discussing the book.

If that's the story your going with.

[Fergus]

Ouch! That sycophant comment really hit hard for some. So defensive over such a broad statement.

I resent having to spend money on this title but i'm compelled to keep my collections complete.

I guess that makes me part of the problem.

[charliehustle415]

leave it to King to get so many so agro

nevertheless, I enjoyed this issue but this does not need to be 12 issues because there is a lot of wheel spinning happening right now and if it was 6 issues then we could have had a single artists on the title as opposed to having Sharp fill in with his god awful art (for this book only, his Green Lantern is sublime)

if this title does not wrap up Kings Bat/Cat story in a nice Christmas bow I will become said agro fan and lose my ****, i've been waiting nearly 3 damn years for this run to end

*fingers crossed*

[millernumber1]

leave it to King to get so many so agro

nevertheless, I enjoyed this issue but this does not need to be 12 issues because there is a lot of wheel spinning happening right now and if it was 6 issues then we could have had a single artists on the title as opposed to having Sharp fill in with his god awful art (for this book only, his Green Lantern is sublime)

if this title does not wrap up Kings Bat/Cat story in a nice Christmas bow I will become said agro fan and lose my ****, i've been waiting nearly 3 damn years for this run to end

*fingers crossed*

I do hope that this will have a satisfying ending. I think it could be building to one, but in some senses, the Annual #2 and the Bat/Cat Special already did that for Bruce and Selina by themselves.

[JBatmanFan05]

I've only read certain issues and mostly am waiting for the trade. And I keep waiting for the trade to be solicited.

It seems this series is too jumbled and decompressed, but King does nail characterization at times, especially with The Joker.

[phonogram12]

Ouch! That sycophant comment really hit hard for some. So defensive over such a broad statement.

I resent having to spend money on this title but i'm compelled to keep my collections complete.

I guess that makes me part of the problem.

I don't mean this in an insulting way (honestly), but...yeah. I mean, I haven't picked up a single Batman issue since Tynion took over because not only have they just not been to been to my liking, but it's not like about half of DC's output somehow isn't Batman-related. It was pretty easy to find at least three other Bat books to my liking.