Kraven vs Deathstroke

[Sharpandpointies]

I don't know much about Kraven, but keeping up with Spiderman is not really a feat. Some guys with no superspeed keep up with Superman too.

Valid point. Some discussion necessary, here.

It's not a feat in and of itself, but Kraven has speed-feats on top of this and has the clear presentation of someone who has jacked themselves up past human possibility, into the superhuman range, through the use of his various potions. This is also noted in his fights - Kaine, Peter's clone, comments on Kraven's speed while fighting him (as an example). And the whole 'potions make him stronger, faster, tougher' ties into other feats, like the potions making him strong and tough enough to eat a full-on punch in the face from an enraged Peter Parker, spit blood, and grin; nothing more. If his speed is also enhanced to similar superhuman levels...he would clearly be able to at least try to keep up with Peter.

This is not the same sort of PIS where Peter whines about Logan's speed when fighting Wolverine; unlike Wolverine, Kraven is presented as being out-and-out superhuman. As Pendaran has noted, Kraven is a guy who doesn't have reams of comic book appearances; what we have for him is a few feats, some fights to try to gauge where he might stand, and his presentation. And in those fights, he consistently keeps up with Spider-man, Daredevil, and Tigra Edit: also Kaine, Peter's clone.

And what I've seen from Kraven is enough to make me say 'sure, keeping up with Spider-man may not be a feat, but it's not something that can be just dismissed as the usual speedster PIS, given Kraven is SUPPOSED to be superhuman. In this case, him kinda-managing to keep up in a fight with Peter is part of his presentation.' This isn't 'person with zero superspeed and no presentation for such keeps up with someone who has superspeed.' It's more similar to the character known as 'The Cat', who explicitly fights evenly with Shang Chi in his couple of appearances and is actually presented in the writing as his equal, and the Lizard, who is presented as being really, really fast and whose big 'speedfeat' is 'makes Peter sweat bullets and thank his Spider-Sense because the Lizard is so fast'.

Hopefully that clarifies.

[StupidMoniker]

Kraven 9/10 under the circumstances.

Deathstroke is a guy who on a good day with his regular gear can whip Batman and takes 3+ members of the Batfamily to take down.

Kraven is someone who, even without gear, can hang witg Spider-Man in terms of strength speed and toughness for awhile with a pretty powerful healing factor iirc.

The Spider rogues gallery is a whole nother league above the Batfamily rogues in terms of physicality.

On a really good day, Deathstroke beats Flash, Green Lantern, Zatanna, Black Canary, Hawkman, Atom, and Elongated Man.

[Sharpandpointies]

on a really good day, deathstroke beats flash, green lantern, zatanna, black canary, hawkman, atom, and elongated man.

O_o

Gundam again.jpg

^_^

[Shellhead]

On a really bad day, Kraven gets beat by Ka-Zar. Twice.

[Sharpandpointies]

On a really bad day, Kraven gets beat by Ka-Zar. Twice.

Yeah. I feel we're somewhat edging into 'bad showing' at that point, given how well he has done under other writers against...well, basically everyone BUT Ka-Zar.

[Shellhead]

Maybe Kraven is distracted by Ka-Zar's magnificent hair. We know Kraven has a son... maybe his ex had hair like Ka-Zar's.

[Sharpandpointies]

Maybe Kraven is distracted by Ka-Zar's magnificent hair. We know Kraven has a son... maybe his ex had hair like Ka-Zar's.

There certainly is that possibility, though I would find it a whole lot more likely were Ka-Zar fighting Namor. ^_^

[Alan2099]

There certainly is that possibility, though I would find it a whole lot more likely were Ka-Zar fighting Namor. ^_^

I can see why Kraven would find Ka-Zar fighting Namor to be pretty distracting.

[Shellhead]

Kraven: So... we meet again.

Ka-Zar: [slow-motion hair toss as a slight Hollywood breeze blows]

Kraven: Damn you.

Ka-Zar: [gives Kraven a sound thrashing]

[Sharpandpointies]

I can see why Kraven would find Ka-Zar fighting Namor to be pretty distracting.

Even better!

Then Shellhead wins the thread. ^_^

[Captain Morgan]

Yeah. I feel we're somewhat edging into 'bad showing' at that point, given how well he has done under other writers against...well, basically everyone BUT Ka-Zar.

He even has a winning record against Squirrel Girl of all people. XD

[Alan2099]

Even better!

Then Shellhead wins the thread. ^_^

That's Ironman. When did he get involved?

We're never going to finish this fight if guest stars keep showing up.

[Sharpandpointies]

He even has a winning record against Squirrel Girl of all people. XD

I'd ask why writers are so biased for the guy, but I imagine Kraven can give an answer.

That's Ironman. When did he get involved?

We're never going to finish this fight if guest stars keep showing up.

Stark saw the hair-toss.

[Powerboy]

On a really bad day, Kraven gets beat by Ka-Zar. Twice.

Well, Ka-Zar has a win against an opponent who was beating Iron-Man, if I recall. I think he did it by wrapping some vines around his hands to protect them when he started punching and by yelling his own name over and over. "I am Ka-Zar, Ka-Zar, KA-ZAR!

[Sharpandpointies]

...i'm starting to feel all of Ka-zar's fights need to be put under a microscope.