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  1. #181
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    So it looks like Rey and possibly other returning characters will have a "mentor" role with someone else playing the new lead.
    Interesting. Fits with the tradition though, I think I like it.

    Reportedly their first choice quit.
    Not exactly a great development. Wonder why?

    Hopefully it's not the same old she unwillingly created a new dark-sider so she has to go off into exile trope.
    Cross your fingers......

    Although it'd be kind of interesting if she gets 'fired' from the job by whatever version of the Republic has happened, because of her family. In Disney continuity, everybody finding out who Leia's father really was the end of her political career (although maybe not Luke's, although it probably didn't help his training of Ben).
    Does anyone know Rey's a Palpatine? It'd be funny if she got crap because of using the Skywalker name when she comes from the only person in the galaxy worse than Vader.

    Maybe the Vader scandal is part of why Luke's academy didn't become bigger? I think Luke said he didn't have that many students right? Seemed weird, you'd think there'd be more applicants given Luke's hero status, and I didn't think being Force sensitive was *that* rare. But maybe nobody wanted to be trained by the son of Vader?
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  2. #182
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    Personally ... I hope that we don't get LFL trying to go ahead and start a new new protagonist's journey and relegate Rey and Finn to supporting characters just yet - its too early for characters who LFL is either arguing are FINE, STOP COMPLAINING, and should be able to hold down another film themselves as a special event, or need help to really get rebuilt and prove they can hold down a major story without the OT3 or Ben Solo.
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  3. #183
    Ultimate Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Ben's reaction to finding out he was related to Vader I don't think was revealed in the Bloodline novel, just that Leia sent an apology letter to him I think ("I'm sorry you had to hear about it this way" kind of thing).



    It's kind of unclear what Luke's Jedi had any affiliation with the New Republic, but given that historically the Jedi were under the authority of the senate Luke might have at least asked.
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  4. #184
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Ben's reaction to finding out he was related to Vader I don't think was revealed in the Bloodline novel, just that Leia sent an apology letter to him I think ("I'm sorry you had to hear about it this way" kind of thing).
    I didn't read this novel, so I can't really speak on it, but I feel like trying to keep her parentage a secret might be one of the few political mistakes I've seen from Leia. Just strikes me as being too big a secret to keep under wraps. We know Vader did everything he could to bury his identity as Anakin, but there must have been records somewhere, just waiting to be stumbled upon. Might've been better if Leia and Luke had announced it themselves and got in front of the story so they could control the narrative.

    It's kind of unclear what Luke's Jedi had any affiliation with the New Republic, but given that historically the Jedi were under the authority of the senate Luke might have at least asked.
    I'd assume Luke was working with the Republic's blessing, at the very least. Given how he apparently followed very orthodox Jedi principals (no attachments, etc), I'm inclined to think he treated the relationship with government the same way, and his new Jedi likely had a very similar arrangement as the old Order.

    But regardless of how Luke's Jedi interacted with the New Republic, I can see parents not wanting their kids to learn the Force from Vader's son. If the news killed Leia's political career, after everything she had done as a leader of the Rebellion and a New Republic founding mother, then I can see it killing Jedi recruitment.
    Last edited by Ascended; 04-24-2023 at 01:59 PM.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

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  5. #185
    Ultimate Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    I have to say; I like what Legends did with Luke far better. He didn't just retread what the Late Republic Jedi did, and was able to make the Jedi Order respectable to the Galaxy at large.

  6. #186
    Ultimate Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    I think in the old EU they just kind of went out and said it right away. It did do some harm to Leia and Luke I think in one of the novel series, but nothing really that bad. (also helped a lot with the Noghri situation).


    In Bloodline a political rival of Leia who was a First Order agent found a hologram of Bail Organa that basically told the whole truth.
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  7. #187
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    I think the biggest issue with current star wars is that it ignores forty years of culture that have grown up around the series.

    Let's take the destruction of a certain item in the recent Mandalorian episodes. It made sense in the context of the show and was great tension in the moment...but it completely undermined the larger context and overarching story of that element that started all the way back in Clone Wars. There is a sense in which the stories Disney is telling are disconnected from the larger story of Star Wars as a whole.

  8. #188
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    I have to say; I like what Legends did with Luke far better. He didn't just retread what the Late Republic Jedi did, and was able to make the Jedi Order respectable to the Galaxy at large.
    Agreed. Of course, the sequels did everything they could to tear down the Skywalker legacy while the old novels built upon it.

    Finished the original Thrawn trilogy recently, after not reading it since the 90's, and it's amazing to me just how little Luke knows about the Jedi there. Like, there's a scene where Luke is in a bar, two bounty hunters get into an argument about how to split their payment, and they expect Luke to mediate the dispute. And Luke has no idea how Jedi handled such things, or if they handled such things at all. Such a simple thing; "did Jedi settle arguments for regular people" and he has no clue. I actually prefer this ignorance to the current canon, where Luke apparently knows a lot more about how the old Order functioned.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    I think in the old EU they just kind of went out and said it right away.
    Wasn't it like, almost immediately after Endor that the info came out? I vaguely recall some novel set days after the Death Star II exploded where people learn about the Vader-Skywalker connection.

    Could be wrong though.

    In Bloodline a political rival of Leia who was a First Order agent found a hologram of Bail Organa that basically told the whole truth.
    Between this and Kenobi, I feel like someone should have just kept Bail Organa away from holo transmissions. You'd think a senator would be a little more wary of saying too much.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

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  9. #189
    Ultimate Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    There is of course "Legacy" which I think some of the sequel trilogy did take some minor notes from (Darth Talon appears in early concept art for example). Luke's order fell in that too although it was a century after the fact. Luke got a younger force ghost too (Unless it was a hallucination as the series sometimes implied).

    I thought the twist that Cade's mother was in fact two characters as a double agent wearing different looks was pretty cool at the time.
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  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by josai21 View Post
    I think the biggest issue with current star wars is that it ignores forty years of culture that have grown up around the series.

    Let's take the destruction of a certain item in the recent Mandalorian episodes. It made sense in the context of the show and was great tension in the moment...but it completely undermined the larger context and overarching story of that element that started all the way back in Clone Wars. There is a sense in which the stories Disney is telling are disconnected from the larger story of Star Wars as a whole.
    That's a fair point. It's destruction and how it could actualy be seen as a liberation of the Mandalorians from an apple of discord that was also an "alien object" to their culture, could have been a great impactfull moment, but it almost happens as a side note to the overall events.

    And the reason for why it wasn't given more gravitas seems to be simply that it wasn't a major object within the show itself, because the show is not a direct continuation of Clone Wars and Rebels and therefor can't give it the focus and build up it should have been given.

    Almost as if the creators felt they could not resolve it anywhere else anymore under current management of the IP and took their chance with this show.

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunty View Post
    That's a fair point. It's destruction and how it could actualy be seen as a liberation of the Mandalorians from an apple of discord that was also an "alien object" to their culture, could have been a great impactfull moment, but it almost happens as a side note to the overall events.

    And the reason for why it wasn't given more gravitas seems to be simply that it wasn't a major object within the show itself, because the show is not a direct continuation of Clone Wars and Rebels and therefor can't give it the focus and build up it should have been given.

    Almost as if the creators felt they could not resolve it anywhere else anymore under current management of the IP and took their chance with this show.
    I personally doubt that theory; the Darksaber was in many ways a Mandalorian-specific lore more “alien” to Rebels than it was to this show, especially once the Rebels character Sabine was stripped of it so that it wound up in Bo Katan’s hands… the first time. It’s also not like this show was crammed so full of Favreau’s own Mandalorian lore that there was nowhere to squeeze in a bit of Filoni’s - if anything, this show had markedly less Mandalorian lore and focus than prior seasons of the show, and we clearly have some “take up time because the season arc isn’t long enough” storytelling happening in Season 3.

    There was ample time to focus on and build up *any* story with the Darksaber this season - and indeed, the brief minutes of its lore’s exploration in The Book Of Boba Fett show how little time is needed to do soemthing interesting with it… and that when TBOBF was written, the Darksaber almost *had* to be a major part of Season 3’s plans at the time, or else there wouldn’t have been any time wasted on it than either.

    Someone simply decided they didn’t want to do any Darksaber or even Mandalorian lore focused story this season, much like how they decided that conflict between the Mandalorians also shouldn’t have been featured much… and all after TBOBF seemed to explicitly set up all of that as compelling hooks going forward.

    I’d be far more inclined to think that Favreau simply personally dislikes more deep lore exploration in the Mandalorians himself and just wanted heroic action figures and one-off adventures of the week once he was separated from Filoni, or that Disney as a company had some marketing department idiot demand more formulaic storytelling and no “tainting” of IPs like Bo Katan or the Armorer by addressing their established history, than I am that anything about The Mandalorian’s nature as a show forced them to drop the Darksaber.
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  12. #192
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    I’d be far more inclined to think that Favreau simply personally dislikes more deep lore exploration in the Mandalorians himself and just wanted heroic action figures and one-off adventures of the week once he was separated from Filoni, or that Disney as a company had some marketing department idiot demand more formulaic storytelling and no “tainting” of IPs like Bo Katan or the Armorer by addressing their established history, than I am that anything about The Mandalorian’s nature as a show forced them to drop the Darksaber.
    I think both theories could be true. Between them I'm inclined to think marketing was to blame more than Fav dropping the ball. Given the amount of merchandise Baby Yoda sells I can believe Disney didn't want anything that might hurt merch revenue, including a deeper look at the culture, its history, and their problems/hypocrisy.

    But I'm gonna suggest a third option for why season 3 backed off from all the darksaber/Mando culture stuff: the movie. If we assume this season was going to explore the rifts in Mando culture as they retake their world and unify (and that's where things seemed pointed), and then the movie got approved, it's possible that conflict was put on the back burner to serve the film's plot instead. Season 3 took such a weird turn, and we know it had to absorb some plotlines from abandoned shows like Rangers, but nothing explains the shift like a big movie requiring major plotlines.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

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  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I think both theories could be true. Between them I'm inclined to think marketing was to blame more than Fav dropping the ball. Given the amount of merchandise Baby Yoda sells I can believe Disney didn't want anything that might hurt merch revenue, including a deeper look at the culture, its history, and their problems/hypocrisy.

    But I'm gonna suggest a third option for why season 3 backed off from all the darksaber/Mando culture stuff: the movie. If we assume this season was going to explore the rifts in Mando culture as they retake their world and unify (and that's where things seemed pointed), and then the movie got approved, it's possible that conflict was put on the back burner to serve the film's plot instead. Season 3 took such a weird turn, and we know it had to absorb some plotlines from abandoned shows like Rangers, but nothing explains the shift like a big movie requiring major plotlines.
    "The movie's plot requires them to rush ahead" is sort of a fascinating theory to me because, along with the "fold in Rangers of the New Republic" idea, you'd normally expect that to lead to an "overstuffed" season, rather than one that clearly has some serious "filler" issues.

    It would, however, follow if the movie has Filoni putting down a firm foot on wanting Din and Grogu as independent characters and for whatever reason either doesn't want the Mandos showing up as a faction, or doesn't want Din to lead them, but only told Favreau that late in the process... but Filoni himself is the main guy behind Mandalorian politics, moral ambiguities, and the Darksaber, so even that seems questionable.

    Regardless, I think Season 3 definitely seems to have had its scripts thrown together late, and makes a strong case for Favreau maybe needing a well-compensated writing room rather than trying to do much of it himself.
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  14. #194
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    It would, however, follow if the movie has Filoni putting down a firm foot on wanting Din and Grogu as independent characters and for whatever reason either doesn't want the Mandos showing up as a faction, or doesn't want Din to lead them
    My guess, assuming there's any truth to this theory at all, is that Fav intended on season 3 building up to Din ruling Mandalore (maybe not taking the throne, but getting a lot closer to it) but someone, Filloni, or maybe Kennedy or even Fav himself, decided that the plot point would work better as part of the movie.

    From a business perspective it just seems like a better choice. Have Din become Mandalore on his show....or in a huge, big budget blockbuster that'll get a lot more attention? It's a bigger stage and it provides a character arc for him.

    I figure we might see the movie begin with Mandalore reunited under Bo, but through the film something will happen to her and Din will find himself in charge, pointed once again at a throne he doesn't want...but the stakes of the movie will force him to accept it, unlike this past season where he was able to avoid the responsibility by giving it to someone else.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

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  15. #195
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    I think season 3 was supposed to have two major developments one was Bo-Katan's story which we saw and the other was supposed to be set up for Rangers of the New Republic and all the Carson Teva scenes where probably supposed to be bigger stories starring Cara Dune. But with the letting go of Gina Carano and scrapping of the Rangers of the New Republic they were left with trying to salvage it the best they could.

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