Was it a mistake for Star Wars to be part of Disney?

[ChrisIII]

Although it's true the Skywalkers have died, I think the earlier versions of Episode 9 (When TLJ was in production) were planning to have Leia live through the whole film, but then Carrie Fisher died. Think that might've been part of the reason he was let go; his script was largely unworkable without Carrie.

[godisawesome]

I did love Kylo Ren.

JJ started him off well, I thought. And I am one "those people" who are fans of Rian Johnson and really liked The Last Jedi.

Rian Johnson really didn't give JJ Abrams many other places to go after that though, and so we got what we got.

Going forward, what I would like to see while they figure everything out, is to go all the way back to the beginning.

I want to see an origin of the Jedi movie. Or series of movies.

When Disney took over, maybe that's what they should have done. Or now that the Skywalker Saga is over, maybe it's now what they should do. Reset Star Wars.

Maybe call such a movie "The Jedi."

Or "The Je'daii."

And just do your own thing for 30,000 years. Movies. Disney+ shows. Everything.

My most positive opinion of TLJ is that its got reason to be a good film for fans of a sadder, much more internally involved Luke, and for the idea of Ben Solo as a tragic character... but I feel it has to be seen as "objectively" bad for a three film story about Rey, Finn, and Poe fighting against Kylo, for a nine-film story of the Skywalkers, and for any chance of the story going forward afterwards with real momentum because of those prior two issues.

There's nothing wrong with finding TLJ's actual story focuses more personally interesting than the story potential its sacrificing for that - but yeah, its sort of obvious why the next film was screwed, and why no one is interested in a story featuring Rey and Finn after the ST (even though they were red-hot commodities after TFA), or any other story after the ST, and why no one has any good idea or interest in a Luke and/or Ben story building towards TLJ; that's the natural consequences of TLJ's retcons and reveals. It's a bunch of short-term ideas focused wholly on sad, self-centered privileged white dudes going through teenage angst or midlife crises - good stuff for one-off art films, but not for a multi-film franchise, and especially not for a multi-film franchise trying to have an orphan girl and an escaped slave black dude as the main characters for once.

...Which is why it makes sense that you and the rest of us all know there's more potential and interest in stories set in the past; there's no TLJ-style movie neutering those time period... yet.

Although it's true the Skywalkers have died, I think the earlier versions of Episode 9 (When TLJ was in production) were planning to have Leia live through the whole film, but then Carrie Fisher died. Think that might've been part of the reason he was let go; his script was largely unworkable without Carrie.

She survived the earlier, Colin Trevorrow version... but her story was otherwise the exact same in his script and TROS - she mostly doesn't do anything big, then gives Kylo his get-out-jail-free redemption plot coupon before he dies.

I think the truth of the matter is that Trevorrow couldn't figure out a good way to give LFL the "Ben Solo's Glorious Redemption Story!!!" they wanted so much more than giving Leia her due; Trevorrow has revealed they were definitely moved to order rewrites to replace Kylo Ren as the main villain, resulting in Trevorrow scrambling to fulfil a de facto impossible request like that with new character ideas - including Sollony Ren, a last minute usurper that naturally didn't fit the scale of a finale because no one could.

It may seem crazy that LFL fired a guy for not giving them a "Ben Solo is the real male lead and hero now" story considering they approved TLJ having him kill Snoke and become the Big Bad... but I think it's obvious that makes a lot more sense than them being disturbed by Fisher's death depriving them of Leia.

[krazijoe]

No, Lucas made billions...
For us, we have more Star Wars content then ever before.
We also have more "discussions" then ever before on that content.

[bat22]

Disney Star Wars has been a disappointment to me; however, I can't lay it all at Disney's feet since the biggest, most crucial mistake made in the handling of the franchise was Lucas's when he chose Kathleen Kennedy to be put in charge.

[ChrisIII]

I know it might be blasphemy but I kind of think how Willow is handling the corruption of Arik might've been a more interesting way of how Kylo Ren became corrupted.


Then again, it's basically similar to Jacen/Caedus in LEGENDS (brought to the dark side by weird woman, while his girlfriend and sister try to save him).

[Ascended]

I mean, that's a pretty old troupe seen across mythology and folklore so I'm perfectly willing to give it a free pass. Star Wars' bread and butter is in taking those core myths and putting them in space.

That said, setting aside the crap execution and crap ideas found elsewhere in TLJ, I do like the idea that Ben turned to the dark side because he couldn't handle the weight of the family legacy. He fears that he'll never live up to expectations, that he's not strong enough to carry the Skywalker name, that makes him turn to other sources of power. And in the end, Luke couldn't handle that family legacy either, and was all too quick to believe that another Skywalker had been corrupted.

We've seen rage drive people to the dark side. We've seen fear do it. Even love, after a fashion. But Ben, I think, was the first time I've seen someone fall due to simple insecurity.

There's a lot of interesting stuff in there.

Actually, if I remember right, the Knights of Ren were already a thing in the academy when Ben and Luke fought. Has anything covered this? How did a group of students start following the dark side without Luke noticing?

[evolutionaryFan]

Not to me. imo, the prequels are far worse than the sequels. Plus the disastrous changes George Lucas made to the OT in special editions... I can't even fathom what was going on in his head. They are not just "his" movies. Other people worked on them, and he's ruined their work as well. GL made 2 good movies (Episodes 4 and 5 original form), and created a fantastic universe. Sequel trilogy was bad, but I'm relieved Star Wars is out of GL's hands.

[ChrisIII]

^ESB is actually pretty much the only one out of the original six that George had the least involvement with. He produced it and wrote the basic story.

[ChrisIII]

I mean, that's a pretty old troupe seen across mythology and folklore so I'm perfectly willing to give it a free pass. Star Wars' bread and butter is in taking those core myths and putting them in space.

That said, setting aside the crap execution and crap ideas found elsewhere in TLJ, I do like the idea that Ben turned to the dark side because he couldn't handle the weight of the family legacy. He fears that he'll never live up to expectations, that he's not strong enough to carry the Skywalker name, that makes him turn to other sources of power. And in the end, Luke couldn't handle that family legacy either, and was all too quick to believe that another Skywalker had been corrupted.

We've seen rage drive people to the dark side. We've seen fear do it. Even love, after a fashion. But Ben, I think, was the first time I've seen someone fall due to simple insecurity.

There's a lot of interesting stuff in there.

Actually, if I remember right, the Knights of Ren were already a thing in the academy when Ben and Luke fought. Has anything covered this? How did a group of students start following the dark side without Luke noticing?

Knights of Ren aren't Luke's students, but are sort of a gang/cult of dark side pirates. The handful of students are the ones who survive the Temple's destruction that go after Ben after he flees the planet/academy but they all get killed by Kylo and the Knights.


The Kylo Ren comic (Where this kind of comes from) kind of glossed over how Snoke met Ben in the first place. However at that point he had only recently found out who his grandfather was (The truth about Luke & Leia's family gets leaked in the Bloodline novel set about five years before the sequels) so that probably had a role to play. Also he probably had abandonment issues over his parents leaving him with his Uncle.

[evolutionaryFan]

^ESB is actually pretty much the only one out of the original six that George had the least involvement with. He produced it and wrote the basic story.

Ah, good point. And that's the best one imo.

Yeah, that's what I mean, they're not just "his" movies. By doing the special editions, he's affecting everyone's work. At first I didn't care, because I thought... "the originals will always be there", but can I even watch the original unaltered trilogy now if I didn't get it on video?

[thwhtGuardian]

Ah, good point. And that's the best one imo.

Yeah, that's what I mean, they're not just "his" movies. By doing the special editions, he's affecting everyone's work. At first I didn't care, because I thought... "the originals will always be there", but can I even watch the original unaltered trilogy now if I didn't get it on video?

The despecialized editions are out there and although they are fan works they are pretty fantastic.

[ChrisIII]

Kind of wonder why Disney hasn't bothered or been able to release the original cuts.

Funny thing is even the prequels are altered from their original theatrical versions. TPM has an extended Pod race and arrival at Coruscant scene, AOTC has an extended version of Anakin's confession, some dialogue edits, and the aftermath of the Yoda/Dooku fight was re-edited. ROTS is mostly unchanged apart from an edit of Anakin's robotic arm after his maiming/burning, originally it was a usual SW wipe but it's just a regular cut otherwise.


So the Disney films I think are the only films that haven't been changed!

[Jokerz79]

Take both with a big grain of salt but there are rumors part of the Disney deal included a clause that included that only the Special Editions would be released.

The reason Lucas did it his ex-wife as editor of the original cuts got residuals and don't from the Special Editions.


Rumor 1 makes sense to why Disney hasn't released them when there is an audience. Rumor 2 if true is petty.

[thwhtGuardian]

Take both with a big grain of salt but there are rumors part of the Disney deal included a clause that included that only the Special Editions would be released.

The reason Lucas did it his ex-wife as editor of the original cuts got residuals and don't from the Special Editions.


Rumor 1 makes sense to why Disney hasn't released them when there is an audience. Rumor 2 if true is petty.

It's kind of sad that I tend to grant credence to this rumor because it does seem pretty petty which is sadly something I've come to associate with Lucas.

[ChrisIII]

Yeah, although with Lucas and Spielberg it always seemed at first like Lucas was the shyest and more reclusive of the two, in a lot of interviews during the release of the prequels he does come off as somewhat overly defensive/combative at times. Think he's pretty much returned to the shy/reclusive nature though, he only occasionally pops up on some of the sets of the Disney stuff to kind of give some small advice or just to look.


Part of the reason "Temple of Doom" is dark he blames on the divorce.