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  1. #46
    Extraordinary Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Oh yeah, I forgot that a lot of Mandalorians sets/locations are actually virtual. Probably helped a bit with the pandemic.
    It's practically magic, I don't get the idea that they aren't innovating; the volume has literally changed the way effects heavy films and TV will be made.
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  2. #47
    Ultimate Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Only problem I think with some of the practical effects is that the TV budgets probably have limits the movies didn't have-case in point, the recent controversy over the Inquisitor's Obi-Wan look.

    Reportedly Grogu was planned to be at least partially CG or the puppet was meant as a stand in for eventual CG replacement (As is done sometimes to give the actors something to interact with), but Werner Herzog objected so he's pretty much all puppet.
    Last edited by ChrisIII; 03-22-2022 at 01:07 PM.
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  3. #48
    Extraordinary Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Only problem I think with some of the practical effects is that the TV budgets probably have limits the movies didn't have-case in point, the recent controversy over the Inquisitor's Obi-Wan look.

    Reportedly Grogu was planned to be at least partially CG or the puppet was meant as a stand in for eventual CG replacement (As is done sometimes to give the actors something to interact with), but Werner Herzog objected so he's pretty much all puppet.
    Yeah, in the making of documentary for season one they talked about how they weren't sure if audiences would like the puppet or not and were shooting the child's scenes twice; once with the puppet and a second time with a green screen doll for later animation but when it came time for Herzog's scene he told them to have confidence in the muppet and refused to do another take with the doll...and he was right!

    As for the inquisitor, I doubt it's budget as these things have crazy money thrown at them. Like the way Cad Bane looked I'm betting it was down to them not loving how it looked on screen so they went with a different more practical look.
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  4. #49
    Ultimate Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Also could be because the character is more physical. Bruce's Spence's Utapau character in ROTS just stood and delivered a few lines for a minute, I'm guessing the Inquisitor does a bit more.
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  5. #50
    Extraordinary Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Also could be because the character is more physical. Bruce's Spence's Utapau character in ROTS just stood and delivered a few lines for a minute, I'm guessing the Inquisitor does a bit more.
    Yeah, and while the design was definitely striking, even for those few lines the design looked unreal at times which is why I suspect they often framed the scenes where he was talking in a way that his whole head wasn't in the shot. You can do that to hide the unreality for a bit part but for what looks to be a sizable role it wouldn't work in the long run.
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  6. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Disney seems mainly to be using practical effects for a lot of the films and TV series, probably in part because of the prequel backlash. Funny thing about Maz, she's CG in TFA and TLJ, but a puppet in Rise.


    TLJ Yoda, Grogu, BB8 and even some of the monsters are practical as well.
    True, I think you hit the nail on the head with the use of practical effects, background sets etc.

    I was quite impressed with the 1980's cgi version of Mark Hamill training Grogu, but outside of that, I haven't really felt the wow effect of something completely groundbreaking as I did with the Lucas trilogies growing up.

    I find my enjoyment of Disney's Star Wars adaptations coming down to the writing for me, so I hope they hire more people like Favreau, his work has been fantastic so far!

  7. #52
    Extraordinary Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nostalgia View Post
    True, I think you hit the nail on the head with the use of practical effects, background sets etc.

    I was quite impressed with the 1980's cgi version of Mark Hamill training Grogu, but outside of that, I haven't really felt the wow effect of something completely groundbreaking as I did with the Lucas trilogies growing up.

    I find my enjoyment of Disney's Star Wars adaptations coming down to the writing for me, so I hope they hire more people like Favreau, his work has been fantastic so far!
    They film in completely digital sets that are so convincing when they blind folded George Lucas and brought him into it he thought he was in a giant sound stage done up to look like tatooine...he literally couldn't tell the difference between the images and reality. It's the most groundbreaking technological advancement since colorized film.
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  8. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    They film in completely digital sets that are so convincing when they blind folded George Lucas and brought him into it he thought he was in a giant sound stage done up to look like tatooine...he literally couldn't tell the difference between the images and reality. It's the most groundbreaking technological advancement since colorized film.
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nostalgia View Post
    True, I think you hit the nail on the head with the use of practical effects, background sets etc.
    I think my issue was addressed, thank you.

  9. #54
    Extraordinary Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nostalgia View Post
    I think my issue was addressed, thank you.
    It's factually incorrect though...There's more innovation than ever before. I mean, if you want to put your head in the sand and pretend otherwise have at it.
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  10. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    It's factually incorrect though...There's more innovation than ever before. I mean, if you want to put your head in the sand and pretend otherwise have at it.
    So factually correct that I fell asleep in the theatre during the Rise of Skywalker.

    Nothing was more groundbreaking than what George Lucas did in his first trilogy, back in the 70's and 80's he took special effects to a whole new level, it literally transcended an entire movie genre. To say The Rise of Skywalker is more groundbreaking than Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back is criminal.

    PS, I came here for a pleasant conversation on Star Wars, does it look like I'm arguing with the other poster???
    Last edited by Captain Nostalgia; 03-23-2022 at 09:33 PM.

  11. #56
    Extraordinary Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nostalgia View Post
    So factually correct that I fell asleep in the theatre during the Rise of Skywalker.

    Nothing was more groundbreaking than what George Lucas did in his first trilogy, back in the 70's and 80's he took special effects to a whole new level, it literally transcended an entire movie genre. To say The Rise of Skywalker is more groundbreaking than Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back is criminal.

    PS, I came here for a pleasant conversation on Star Wars, does it look like I'm arguing with the other poster???
    The Volume is the new set they've created to film the Mandolorian, Boba Fett, Obi-Wan, and is impacting the way other films are being done now too all of George Clooney's Netflix film The Midnight Sky used this technology, a lot of scenes in The Batman were filmed this way, and both the new Thor and Antman movies will use it extensively as well.

    It's the most groundbreaking innovation in special effects in decades and is completely changing the way films are conceptualized and filmed.

    It's like this, if I were to blindfold you, drop you into the Volume, enclosed it and turned it on to show Endor then asked you to take off your blindfold...you literally wouldn't know you were inside, you'd think you were on location somewhere in the Redwood forests of California.

    It's a fully immersive digital environment that allows for the seamless integration of digital effects, physical effects and the actors in real time and it can be captured on film.

    It's breath taking.

    But hey, pretend that Disney is stifling the development of effects at ILM.
    Last edited by thwhtGuardian; 03-24-2022 at 06:35 AM.
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  12. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    The Volume is the new set they've created to film the Mandolorian, Boba Fett, Obi-Wan, and is impacting the way other films are being done now too all of George Clooney's Netflix film The Midnight Sky used this technology, a lot of scenes in The Batman were filmed this way, and both the new Thor and Antman movies will use it extensively as well.

    It's the most groundbreaking innovation in special effects in decades and is completely changing the way films are conceptualized and filmed.

    It's like this, if I were to blindfold you, drop you into the Volume, enclosed it and turned it on to show Endor then asked you to take off your blindfold...you literally wouldn't know you were inside, you'd think you were on location somewhere in the Redwood forests of California.

    It's a fully immersive digital environment that allows for the seamless integration of digital effects, physical effects and the actors in real time and it can be captured on film.

    It's breath taking.

    But hey, pretend that Disney is stifling the development of effects at ILM.
    I never said that Disney was stifling the special effects, in fact I stated that it was inevitable that Lucas was going to sell, and that I was happy with Star Wars being in Disney's hands.

    I did state that I'm not seeing the ground breaking special effects that I did in the original films that gives me that wow factor (because I'm not) and then the other poster pointed out to me that's because they are investing in practical effects, (like the digital background sets you are describing) and I agreed he was right.

    I think your in an argument with yourself, (or are looking for an agrument?) no one was arguing before you began posting.

  13. #58
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    I think its safe to say that Favreau is honoring Lucas's push for groundbreaking special effects work and general "on the cutting edge" approach to movie-making on Disney+.... but probably not to Lucas's extent, and it's really only Favreau and the D+ shows that were doing that, while the actual released movies were very conservative in their film-making.

    The most experimental thing from a special effects standpoint in the Disney-era films was probably Edwards's attempt to integrate his film crew into his set while filming Rogue One; everything else, regardless of whether it was him, Abrams, Johnson, or Howard, was significantly more conventional, either using reliable and practiced CGI or old school practical effects - and intentionally so for most of them, since I think all the film directors (and even Lucas's old employees at LFL) all shared a certain exasperation at just how much Lucas had pushed the boundaries during the PT.

    I mean, you could easily argue that Lucas was always trying to do things about a year before they were perfected during the PT - transitioning to all digital film, "masking" stuntmen with facsimiles of his actors when they couldn't do some of the stunts, pushing to use digital effects where puppets could still suffice, and insisting on always showcasing new worlds wholly constructed and moving through digital artwork. This was both good and bad - bad because the PT very much does have a sense of "unreality" going on with so many computer special effects that still haven't quite worked out every kink in the system... but good because it meant that he was literally creating worlds and aliens at a mind-boggling speed.

    Favreau dedicating so much of The Mandalorian's Season One budget to Volume is very much in-line with Lucas's trailblazing sensibilities... but as seismically important a development as that is (and make no mistake, it may be the breakthrough on removing any need for location shooting at all) its also accompanied by still quite a lot of conventional filmmaking that Lucas likely would have regarded as "too safe."

    Having said all that... the actual special effects aspects aren't as important to me as LFL losing someone who was *both* a great creator and a great businessman in Lucas at the helm - since I think that lack of insight doomed the ST and likely contributed to Solo's problems, even if it seems unlikely that either Rogue One or the D+ series would have been made as quickly and with as high quality as they had without Lucas.
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  14. #59
    Take Me Higher The Negative Zone's Avatar
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    I think its an issue of if you want more Star Wars content. Without Disney, Star Wars would not be a huge active franchise with lots to look forward to with new projects. Lucas did not want to make more movies.

  15. #60
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    From a business standpoint I'm sure it was a great deal.

    Creatively, I don't think a lot has changed. At least not as far as quality goes. Lucas gave us the OT and most of the Clone Wars, which are awesome, and the prequels and Ewok Adventures, which are not. And the infamous Holiday Special even Lucas wants to wipe from history. Not sure if Rebels was before the Disney deal or not. Disney has given us some great stuff with Mando, Bad Batch, Rogue One, and I'd even argue Solo (unnecessary as it was, it's not a bad film) as well as some crap with the sequels, that Resistance cartoon or whatever it was called, and a underwhelming Boba Fett.

    So lots of big hits and big misses both before and after Disney got involved.
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