Dark Crisis Announced

[Stanlos]

I'm clowning the claim that Hal doesn't belong on the Justice League for being character assassinated 30 years ago. Whether you thought the yellow bug was dumb or not is of no relevance, the fact of the matter is over the past 20 years Hal has more than made up for his time as Parallax and the early Johns run was all about him trying to earn back the Corps' trust despite the "possession" angle, specifically the Lost Lanterns arc. Still holding this against him in 2022 because of brainless editorial decisions from 1994 is odd and very much worth the ridicule.

Cheshire is a villainous assassin not a major hero-turned villain for shock value in the 90s. Bringing her up is illogical.

This sounds a lot like 'well he's my fave so #Pass" and that just kills suspension of disbelief.

[Restingvoice]

They or another leaker also said that Deathstroke would be Beast Boy (not sure how that would work, but it sounds stupid enough for someone at DC to pull off). 4chan is usually wrong and the only times they're right is by dumb luck, so I take everything from there with a grain of salt or consider it an outright lie until proven otherwise.

Beast Boy will become Deathstroke
Yea I know that one's dumb
I mean I can see it happening if Didio-Johns are still in charge and they decided since he got shot in the eye as the latest victim of Crisis he will go on a revenge against the Titans, Johns Jericho style, and everyone ignores his healing factor... but he's already shown to heal completely and rejoins the heroes in the teaser image for #5

[Dataweaver]

Didio is gone completely; and while Johns is still around, he's not involved in this.

Also, Johns appears to have learned some lessons from his early days on the Teen Titans (which I agree did a lot of character assassination); by the time of Rebirth, Johns has basically become the anti-Didio.

[Reddead]

Beast Boy will become Deathstroke
Yea I know that one's dumb
I mean I can see it happening if Didio-Johns are still in charge and they decided since he got shot in the eye as the latest victim of Crisis he will go on a revenge against the Titans, Johns Jericho style, and everyone ignores his healing factor... but he's already shown to heal completely and rejoins the heroes in the teaser image for #5

Tbf in that teaser image he has an eyepatch (which I suppose is where the rumour is coming from). Why would you give Beast Boy an eyepatch if not to create a parallelism between him and Slade?

[NathanS]

This sounds a lot like 'well he's my fave so #Pass" and that just kills suspension of disbelief.

The shitty writing of Twilight did that first.

[j9ac9k]

This sounds a lot like 'well he's my fave so #Pass" and that just kills suspension of disbelief.

Did we just forget there were about ten years of "we don't trust you, Hal" stories? Even after "Rebirth" he still had to prove himself. He didn't "get a pass," they wrote years of stories about Hal working his way back.

Black Adam gets a pass because the Rock has a movie coming out and Harley because of her popularity outside of comics.
[edited: see below]

[Dataweaver]

Nitpick: I think you mean “Green Lantern: Rebirth”. “Emerald Dawn” was, IIRC, Hal's post-Crisis reboot story, and took place long before Parallax was ever a thing.

[j9ac9k]

Nitpick: I think you mean “Green Lantern: Rebirth”. “Emerald Dawn” was, IIRC, Hal's post-Crisis reboot story, and took place long before Parallax was ever a thing.

Duh - yes. I edited my statement, thanks.

[Robanker]

Yeah, I'll give Hal's return that: his redemption was on-page. Harley largely just got to benefit off her media popularity and then one day she's in the Superman: Heroes special alongside the Justice League celebrating Clark's unmasking. Fucking what?

[NathanS]

Did we just forget there were about ten years of "we don't trust you, Hal" stories? Even after "Rebirth" he still had to prove himself. He didn't "get a pass," they wrote years of stories about Hal working his way back.

Black Adam gets a pass because the Rock has a movie coming out and Harley because of her popularity outside of comics.
[edited: see below]

And before that the Specter stuff.

[Dataweaver]

Yeah, I'll give Hal's return that: his redemption was on-page. Harley largely just got to benefit off her media popularity and then one day she's in the Superman: Heroes special alongside the Justice League celebrating Clark's unmasking. Fucking what?

Mmm… the New 52 featured Harley Quinn as a member of the Suicide Squad, which has occasionally been used as a means of getting former criminals to redeem themselves. And this was followed up by a Harley Quinn series, which struck me as being for her as the Catwoman series from a decade before was for Selina Kyle. So no, her heel-face turn took place long before Superman's identity reveal event.

[Restingvoice]

Tbf in that teaser image he has an eyepatch (which I suppose is where the rumour is coming from). Why would you give Beast Boy an eyepatch if not to create a parallelism between him and Slade?

Oh I missed the eye patch

[Robanker]

Mmm… the New 52 featured Harley Quinn as a member of the Suicide Squad, which has occasionally been used as a means of getting former criminals to redeem themselves. And this was followed up by a Harley Quinn series, which struck me as being for her as the Catwoman series from a decade before was for Selina Kyle. So no, her heel-face turn took place long before Superman's identity reveal event.

Perhaps that was adequate for you, but serving on the Suicide Squad is not a redemption arc for me.

I have heard the new Harley series directly addresses the issue of her redemption, which I appreciate, but I haven't read it. Still, with respect to Harley, she was being treated with kids gloves for a long time and it was before there was a reason on the printed page... And I still don't think any of it would have been enough to justify her bumping elbows with the Justice League by the time of that special.

But hey, if it was enough for you, great.

[Dataweaver]

That's mighty decent of you to allow me to hold my own opinion. I sincerely hope you actually mean that and are not trying to be passive aggressive. I just recently finished pushing back against posters in another thread who thought that they had enough moral high ground to tell me what I should and shouldn't accept in comics; I don't want to get into another such fight here.

For what it's worth, I'm not passing judgment on whether or not they did “enough” to redeem her; I actually don't have an opinion on that, and I'll agree that it's a matter of opinion. All I'm saying is that her heel-face turn, whether you believe it or not, was portrayed to have happened quite some time ago.

[Robanker]

That's mighty decent of you to allow me to hold my own opinion. I sincerely hope you actually mean that and are not trying to be passive aggressive. I just recently finished pushing back against posters in another thread who thought that they had enough moral high ground to tell me what I should and shouldn't accept in comics; I don't want to get into another such fight here.

For what it's worth, I'm not passing judgment on whether or not they did “enough” to redeem her; I actually don't have an opinion on that, and I'll agree that it's a matter of opinion. All I'm saying is that her heel-face turn, whether you believe it or not, was portrayed to have happened quite some time ago.

I didn't realize "to each their own" is considered a passive aggressive micro aggression. All I said was that the attempts to redeem Harley (outside her most recent series which is reported to tackle the issue head-on) have not worked for me, but if they did for you, great.

I don't think Harley has been redeemed. I have stopped holding that issue where she blew up a bunch of kids to get Mistah J's attention as her Heroes in Crisis/Parallax hit job, but I still don't think she's absolved of all her crimes and definitely do not buy the Batfamily working with her. But she is popular and moves T-Shirts, so my opinion doesn't mean much.

If none of this stuff bothers you, that's probably for the best. You'll enjoy more comics that way. We all draw our lines in the sand over just about everything as fans, and anything that prevents you from doing so will likely add to your enjoyment of corporate comics. I'm not so lucky. Even if I'm told a character has switched sides to good, I don't really buy it without good evidence to back it. Harley (and Black Adam, frankly) exist in this nebulous position where they can do whatever they want and still get invited to the table of heroes.

Adam less so, but he still gets to be on the JSA/JL. Harley? She can kill anyone she wants in her own books and still shake hands with Bat/Super people. You can tell me she made her Heel-Face turn, but that doesn't mean I buy it. DC just wants to have their cake and eat it too. Fine, it's their universe, but it's poor writing and even worse stewardship of their IP. But Harley is hardly the only instance of them shitting the bed in order to shill popular characters. I'm a Superman fan, it's not like I haven't benefited from this bullshit. But it's still bullshit. All I'm saying.