Dark Crisis Announced

[sifighter]

Just feel that both stories are in the same level. Good art but mediocre and forced writting.

I would have to say one big difference for me. One, heroes in crisis, was pretty disastrous for certain characters and had a negative impact on characters that it took some time for certain characters to be fixed. Note how the first arc of Wally West ongoing series is about completely retconning Heroes in Crisis.

While the other, Dark Crisis, is relatively better for its characters by thrusting newer characters into the spotlight (Jon, Jace, Yara), utilized lesser used characters like the JSA and freaking sideways of all people, and is relatively a more straightforward superhero story- mainly an army of heroes against a horde of badass in an effort to save the world.

[M@Bowers2014]

So does DCYJ — although, to be fair, my point of comparison there is the art in the new Tim Drake: Robin series.

I probably should have worded my response differently. I can't stand the art in DCYJ while I loved the art in HIC. Also while I definitely understand why so many people hate the art in TD: Robin I love his art.

[Rac7d*]

Just feel that both stories are in the same level. Good art but mediocre and forced writting.

Hic was boring and depressing from beginning to end

The energy in here makes this seems the
Same when it’s not even in close

[M@Bowers2014]

Hic was boring and depressing from beginning to end

The energy in here makes this seems the
Same when it’s not even in close

I'm actually enjoying Dark Crisis for the record. DC: Young Justice is a whole different ball game though. I bought and read the first two and couldn't stand them so I stopped buying them.

[BatmanJones]

Did you guys enjoy heroes in crisis more?

An utterly imperfect series but god yes, by miles. I’d rather hate or be offended by something than be utterly nonplussed. At least when you viscerally hate something you’re having a reaction.

I used to say that Cry for Justice was my least favorite DC anything but then along came the Bendis JL which could not have been more boring. I didn’t think I could be more bored by a comic, that nothing could be more of a disappointment and chore to get through but way to prove me wrong, DC and Williamson…Dark Crisis is the most boring series I’ve read from DC, by far, when it should be one of the more exciting ones.

I can live with thinking something is bad. The cardinal sin to me is being so boring, so mundane or mediocre, and there is one distinction Dark Crisis has above all others. No comic ever has had a better effect on my insomnia. Foolish me… I continue to pick up every single issue and tie-in as soon as it hits at 2am CST, thinking again and again it’s going to get interesting.

Fool me once, shame on you DC. Fool me 20+ times in a row without exception, we’ll that’s plainly on me.

This can’t be over soon enough. I don’t care what’s coming next. It could be anything in the world but, as long as Williamson’s not steering the ship I will consider it a vast improvement. It can’t come soon enough.

[Buried Alien]

An utterly imperfect series but god yes, by miles. I’d rather hate or be offended by something than be utterly nonplussed. At least when you viscerally hate something you’re having a reaction.

I used to say that Cry for Justice was my least favorite DC anything but then along came the Bendis JL which could not have been more boring. I didn’t think I could be more bored by a comic, that nothing could be more of a disappointment and chore to get through but way to prove me wrong, DC and Williamson…Dark Crisis is the most boring series I’ve read from DC, by far, when it should be one of the more exciting ones.

I can live with thinking something is bad. The cardinal sin to me is being so boring, so mundane or mediocre, and there is one distinction Dark Crisis has above all others. No comic ever has had a better effect on my insomnia. Foolish me… I continue to pick up every single issue and tie-in as soon as it hits at 2am CST, thinking again and again it’s going to get interesting.

Fool me once, shame on you DC. Fool me 20+ times in a row without exception, we’ll that’s plainly on me.

This can’t be over soon enough. I don’t care what’s coming next. It could be anything in the world but, as long as Williamson’s not steering the ship I will consider it a vast improvement. It can’t come soon enough.

There was John Byrne's GENESIS from 1997. I don't think DARK CRISIS quite attains the lows of GENESIS.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Lukmendes]

Literally 2 video games and an entire comic series called, "The Darkness". It had crossovers with both Marvel and DC. Games aren't bad either.

Huh, wasn't aware of that, though I do wonder if they overused the word "darkness" to the point one gets annoyed at seeing it .

Oh, look! It's the Map of the Dark Multiverse!

Damn it, I wish I thought of that lol.

Is that the writer's way of saying Jaime is spineless?

Talk about symbolism lol.

Tell that to the X-Men office. Their books always have a couple of text pages and have done ever since Hickman started the Krakoa era.

Though DC should use recaps, I don't know why they don't do it like Marvel does (with the exception of Bendis's books).

X-Men's dedicated info dump pages are really annoying.

It's even worse when characters are actually talking in those, instead of showing the characters interacting in what is a visual medium, they decided to have an info dump page with conversations.

When Hickman does it, he's at least listing complex or semi complex stuff, and even then it's still annoying, and having character interactions in dedicated info dump pages is even worse.

Didn't people complain about Barbara's butt in that book? :P

For being too big, too small or what? .

An utterly imperfect series but god yes, by miles. I’d rather hate or be offended by something than be utterly nonplussed. At least when you viscerally hate something you’re having a reaction.

I used to say that Cry for Justice was my least favorite DC anything but then along came the Bendis JL which could not have been more boring. I didn’t think I could be more bored by a comic, that nothing could be more of a disappointment and chore to get through but way to prove me wrong, DC and Williamson…Dark Crisis is the most boring series I’ve read from DC, by far, when it should be one of the more exciting ones.

I can live with thinking something is bad. The cardinal sin to me is being so boring, so mundane or mediocre, and there is one distinction Dark Crisis has above all others. No comic ever has had a better effect on my insomnia. Foolish me… I continue to pick up every single issue and tie-in as soon as it hits at 2am CST, thinking again and again it’s going to get interesting.

Fool me once, shame on you DC. Fool me 20+ times in a row without exception, we’ll that’s plainly on me.

This can’t be over soon enough. I don’t care what’s coming next. It could be anything in the world but, as long as Williamson’s not steering the ship I will consider it a vast improvement. It can’t come soon enough.

While a bad story can be considered better than a boring one just because it gives you a reason to remember it, it is worth pointing out that a bad story can be actively damaging to a franchise and/or characters, while a boring story is just forgettable and likely isn't harming anyone.

So yeah, something like HiC gets a reaction out of you, but look how many characters it fucked over, Wally needed two retcons to escape any blame for his actions (Thawne used some asspull power to hypnotize him and other speedsters to do bad ****, which's why he decided to hide evidence he was involved, and then later the Speed Force explosion wasn't Wally's fault), and all of this wouldn't be necessary after a boring story.

[Robanker]

An utterly imperfect series but god yes, by miles. I’d rather hate or be offended by something than be utterly nonplussed. At least when you viscerally hate something you’re having a reaction.

I used to say that Cry for Justice was my least favorite DC anything but then along came the Bendis JL which could not have been more boring. I didn’t think I could be more bored by a comic, that nothing could be more of a disappointment and chore to get through but way to prove me wrong, DC and Williamson…Dark Crisis is the most boring series I’ve read from DC, by far, when it should be one of the more exciting ones.

I can live with thinking something is bad. The cardinal sin to me is being so boring, so mundane or mediocre, and there is one distinction Dark Crisis has above all others. No comic ever has had a better effect on my insomnia. Foolish me… I continue to pick up every single issue and tie-in as soon as it hits at 2am CST, thinking again and again it’s going to get interesting.

Fool me once, shame on you DC. Fool me 20+ times in a row without exception, we’ll that’s plainly on me.

This can’t be over soon enough. I don’t care what’s coming next. It could be anything in the world but, as long as Williamson’s not steering the ship I will consider it a vast improvement. It can’t come soon enough.

In a vacuum, I agree, but not in a shared persistent narrative. **** like Heroes in Crisis doesn't end there. It invades other stories and drags them down for a long time until we come out the other side. The current Flash run is great, but it took a mini, a cop-out handwave in Williamson's run and an arc in the Adams run of DC apologizing over and over while ignoring their own event comic to move past it, and when the generation that grew up on Heroes in Crisis comes into comics, you better believe it's going to be dug up and rubbed in Wally's face again.

When a bad story can last a year (Wally) or several decades (John Stewart with Xanshi) and weigh down other narratives, I'll take a boring story that spun plates over something that actively harms future narratives and poisons the well. I appreciate the "art must move you or it fails" theory but it's not universal and commercial art with serialized IP is certainly a delicate subject to apply that maxim towards. I'd rather a boring Superman comic for a few months than one where he disembowels Lois, for example. Just because you're angry doesn't mean it's better than not caring when three years later you're still being reminded of "that time Wally killed a bunch of people and covered it up by framing the mentally ill or the loved ones of the deceased so he could buy himself time to dox and leak the most private secrets of everyone he knows and loves without their consent to assuage his guilt."

But standalone stuff like original IP movies? Absolutely.

[Refrax5]

Hic was boring and depressing from beginning to end

The energy in here makes this seems the
Same when it’s not even in close

I definitely don't think it's the same as HiC. HiC wasn't just bad, it was offensive and gross. This isn't anything bad on that level. It's just boring and the multiverse stuff is just more convoluted than ever. Dark Crisis is at least relatively harmless as a story. It's lame but inoffensive.

[Refrax5]

In a vacuum, I agree, but not in a shared persistent narrative. **** like Heroes in Crisis doesn't end there. It invades other stories and drags them down for a long time until we come out the other side. The current Flash run is great, but it took a mini, a cop-out handwave in Williamson's run and an arc in the Adams run of DC apologizing over and over while ignoring their own event comic to move past it, and when the generation that grew up on Heroes in Crisis comes into comics, you better believe it's going to be dug up and rubbed in Wally's face again.

When a bad story can last a year (Wally) or several decades (John Stewart with Xanshi) and weigh down other narratives, I'll take a boring story that spun plates over something that actively harms future narratives and poisons the well. I appreciate the "art must move you or it fails" theory but it's not universal and commercial art with serialized IP is certainly a delicate subject to apply that maxim towards. I'd rather a boring Superman comic for a few months than one where he disembowels Lois, for example. Just because you're angry doesn't mean it's better than not caring when three years later you're still being reminded of "that time Wally killed a bunch of people and covered it up by framing the mentally ill or the loved ones of the deceased so he could buy himself time to dox and leak the most private secrets of everyone he knows and loves without their consent to assuage his guilt."

But standalone stuff like original IP movies? Absolutely.

Very well put.

[Drako]

I guess when you don't care about the damage that HiC did to so many characters and had to wait for DC to cross correct all the consequences of that stupid story, you can actually live with "i rater hate a story than feel nothing."

I would take 3 Dark Crisis back to back over relive Heroes in Crisis.

[Dataweaver]

I guess when you don't care about the damage that HiC did to so many characters and had to wait for DC to cross correct all the consequences of that stupid story, you can actually live with "i rater hate a story than feel nothing."

I would take 3 Dark Crisis back to back over relive Heroes in Crisis.

Hear, hear!

[lefthanded]

Heroes in Crisis is worse than Dark Crisis.
Both fail to do the things the claim to be about (HiC with mental illness; DC with promoting the next generation), but the way that HiC fails the topic is so catastrophically bad so as to being doing the opposite of what it is setting out to do.

Dark Crisis merely fails to show that the next generation is worth rooting for
HiC fails to address the topic of mental illness, and then flips it on the head and makes mental illness the villain (Wally gone crazy = Villain). Rather than showing why good mental care is necessary in response to all the trauma, it instead argues that (1) there is no fixing crazy, (2) the solution to crazy is more crazy, and (3) does nothing to promote continued mental care.

[BatmanJones]

So I guess if you disagree with me Dark Crisis is only the second worst company-wide story in modern history. Woohoo!

[Lukmendes]

In a vacuum, I agree, but not in a shared persistent narrative. **** like Heroes in Crisis doesn't end there. It invades other stories and drags them down for a long time until we come out the other side. The current Flash run is great, but it took a mini, a cop-out handwave in Williamson's run and an arc in the Adams run of DC apologizing over and over while ignoring their own event comic to move past it, and when the generation that grew up on Heroes in Crisis comes into comics, you better believe it's going to be dug up and rubbed in Wally's face again.

When a bad story can last a year (Wally) or several decades (John Stewart with Xanshi) and weigh down other narratives, I'll take a boring story that spun plates over something that actively harms future narratives and poisons the well. I appreciate the "art must move you or it fails" theory but it's not universal and commercial art with serialized IP is certainly a delicate subject to apply that maxim towards. I'd rather a boring Superman comic for a few months than one where he disembowels Lois, for example. Just because you're angry doesn't mean it's better than not caring when three years later you're still being reminded of "that time Wally killed a bunch of people and covered it up by framing the mentally ill or the loved ones of the deceased so he could buy himself time to dox and leak the most private secrets of everyone he knows and loves without their consent to assuage his guilt."

But standalone stuff like original IP movies? Absolutely.

Man, you said the same thing I did, but smarter .

Heroes in Crisis is worse than Dark Crisis.
Both fail to do the things the claim to be about (HiC with mental illness; DC with promoting the next generation), but the way that HiC fails the topic is so catastrophically bad so as to being doing the opposite of what it is setting out to do.

Dark Crisis merely fails to show that the next generation is worth rooting for
HiC fails to address the topic of mental illness, and then flips it on the head and makes mental illness the villain (Wally gone crazy = Villain). Rather than showing why good mental care is necessary in response to all the trauma, it instead argues that (1) there is no fixing crazy, (2) the solution to crazy is more crazy, and (3) does nothing to promote continued mental care.

HiC also acts like Sanctuary is a good place to get mental health treatment, since everyone going to it at the end was treated as a good thing, which's a really bad point to make if the point of the story is "take care of your mental health" lol.