Green Lanterns vs Time Lords

[Shai-Hulud]

Some weird Amalgam event happens, and the DC universe and the Doctor Who universe are merged.

Oa and Gallifrey go to war with one another.

• Fighting for Oa: The Guardians and the Green Lantern Corps, including their best Lanterns, like Hal Jordan and Kyle Rayner (without cosmic power-ups; they use the rings).
  
  
• Fighting for Gallifrey: The Time Lords, a fleet of War TARDISes, and the Doctor and the Master (neither of them switches sides or deserts).

No other parties may participate; everyone sits this out except the principles themselves.

Who takes it?

[Captain Morgan]

Going by high end showings (both are inconsistent, but TARDIS are especially) I think a TARDIS can operate on a scale close to a green lantern ring but with much less precision and flexibility.

HOWEVER, time travel is a thing. It depends on whether this war would qualify as a fixed point they can't undo with the travel I suppose. I guess a war on this scale would have to? Which means I favor the rings.

The other possible road to victory is if the Doctor or Master can get the prep time to hack the rings or build specialized power siphons or what have you. But a straight up battle? Mogo just crashes through Gallifrey and that's it.

[Nik Hasta]

Yeah, how flexible are you allowing the Time Lords to be with how they engage with this?

Quite apart from anything, it means all of their forces are, in theory, multiplied by 12 simply by virtue of them being able to call up their other selves from elsewhere in their own timelines and also gives them technically limitless prep time by communicating across eras.

As shown with Gallifrey Stands:



In a pinch, or PIS off, The Doctor and any Time Lord with a TARDIS can convene with their self with a timeline for prep and problem solving numbering in the thousands of years.

[Shai-Hulud]

In a pinch, or PIS off, The Doctor and any Time Lord with a TARDIS can convene with their self with a timeline for prep and problem solving numbering in the thousands of years.

While this is not an arena match, it is a rumble, and both PIS and CIS are off.

So if this gives the Time Lords extra prep, then they would have that, unless there were some way for the Guardians/Lanterns to know of it and stop it, I guess?

On another time travel point:

I suspect that defeating the Guardians by attacking their past existence is out, as I believe the Guardians have foreclosed that route of attack upon themselves. That makes sense, as when you ascend to become that cosmic, you protect your past self and timeline against time travelers.

I think something like this was mentioned in Larry Niven's Ganthet's Tale? But not sure. Maybe this theme was developed in later Green Lantern storylines?

Anyway, no PIS or CIS. Both are off.

[Shai-Hulud]

Mogo just crashes through Gallifrey and that's it.

Is that it? Assuming (not granting) that happens, you've still got a fleet of War TARDISes out there, right?

The Doctor's Type 40 has functioned independently of Gallifrey's Eye of Harmony, so wouldn't the vastly more formidable War TARDISes have that capability?

Would destroying Gallifrey be the end of the fight? Wouldn't the Time Lord fleet fight on and say, "Yeah, we'll try to recreate Gallifrey later, somehow. First problems first. On to victory."

Don't know, just putting it out there.

[Captain Smith]

I would attack Malthus before the Guardians became guardians. That population had significant powers as seen in COIE so it is not a sure thing but are we debating whether you can go back to the beginning of OA?

In a space fight, you have the GLs significantly outnumbered and can they block time torpedoes from freezing them in time? Now if the Guardians are in one of us can smash a planet with a thought and all of us can move galaxies, that is probably more firepower than the Time Lords can muster in a stand up fight. So how much time manipulation can the Time Lords use?

[Shai-Hulud]

I would attack Malthus before the Guardians became guardians. That population had significant powers as seen in COIE so it is not a sure thing but are we debating whether you can go back to the beginning of OA?

Don't know. But we probably should be.

I suspect that defeating the Guardians by attacking their past existence is out, as I believe the Guardians have foreclosed that route of attack upon themselves. That makes sense, as when you ascend to become that cosmic, you protect your past self and timeline against time travelers.

I think something like this was mentioned in Larry Niven's Ganthet's Tale? But not sure. Maybe this theme was developed in later Green Lantern storylines?

It looks as if the Guardians have a defense mechanism in place for that, although it seems to be an illusion of sorts.

"The further back you look, the more powerful we become. Until, like Krona, like myself, you gaze upon the Creation and behold us as the very progenitors of the universe itself. Who would dare attack such an enemy?"

Here:

ganthetstale-025.jpg
Green Lantern Ganthet s Tale Bchry-DCP - página 28.jpg

Obviously, Ganthet wouldn't trust Hal with the details of the Guardian's temporal defenses (lol, he's a mayfly and a retard compared to the Guardians). But Ganthet's statement seems to imply the Guardians have thought of that vulnerability.

Possibly, their countermeasures have been revealed in other storylines? Because if Ganthet is spilling the beans here, their countermeasures are an elaborate bluff. I can't see the Doctor or the Master swallowing it, even if the other Time Lords do (not sure they would).

[Captain Morgan]

Is that it? Assuming (not granting) that happens, you've still got a fleet of War TARDISes out there, right?

The Doctor's Type 40 has functioned independently of Gallifrey's Eye of Harmony, so wouldn't the vastly more formidable War TARDISes have that capability?

Would destroying Gallifrey be the end of the fight? Wouldn't the Time Lord fleet fight on and say, "Yeah, we'll try to recreate Gallifrey later, somehow. First problems first. On to victory."

Don't know, just putting it out there.

I'm pretty sure Mogo could handle the fleet as well. Mogo is hella powerful. Aside from having a planet sized will and a Death Star blast that can knock out a Guardian, he's capable of doing awful things with his own gravity. Check out this issue. A couple high end Lanterns can't escape Mogo's gravity-- high end Lanterns escape black holes just fine. They can't escape Mogo. Then Mogo fires off his landmass as a light speed debris field and decimates an army. And this is Mogo when he's still recovering.

Mogo doesn't fight often because it is hard for him to do so without committing genocide, but Mogo unleashed is very scary indeed. The Time Lords do NOT want a straight space battle here.


RCO011.jpgRCO016.jpgRCO017.jpg

[Alvacron]

I'm pretty sure Mogo could handle the fleet as well. Mogo is hella powerful. Aside from having a planet sized will and a Death Star blast that can knock out a Guardian, he's capable of doing awful things with his own gravity. Check out this issue. A couple high end Lanterns can't escape Mogo's gravity-- high end Lanterns escape black holes just fine. They can't escape Mogo. Then Mogo fires off his landmass as a light speed debris field and decimates an army. And this is Mogo when he's still recovering.

Mogo doesn't fight often because it is hard for him to do so without committing genocide, but Mogo unleashed is very scary indeed. The Time Lords do NOT want a straight space battle here.

Time lords can't lose to green lanturns. they would either find a way to detonate mogo, or just straight-up Time Torp him and push him. and that's just what the master would think of doing. the doctor would probably get the sontaran army or something, and the Time Lords themselves would use a blue-bome style weapon to erase the GL army.read "Artemis Fowl" to the end to find out what a Blue-Bomb could do to humans, Time Lords, or just anything that lives (apart from Mogo, he's a planet).

[Captain Morgan]

Time lords can't lose to green lanturns. they would either find a way to detonate mogo, or just straight-up Time Torp him and push him. and that's just what the master would think of doing. the doctor would probably get the sontaran army or something, and the Time Lords themselves would use a blue-bome style weapon to erase the GL army.read "Artemis Fowl" to the end to find out what a Blue-Bomb could do to humans, Time Lords, or just anything that lives (apart from Mogo, he's a planet).

The fact that you're citing an unrelated book series is a pretty strong indicator you don't know what we consider feats around here.

[Captain Morgan]

Also, the thing about plot induced stupidity limiting the Doctor's timey wimey shenanigans is... It isn't treated as plot induced stupidity so much as actual plot. There are poorly explained rules governing when they can and can't use time travel to Dues Ex Machina a solution. The 11th Doctor breaking those rules and pulling Bill and Ted style shenanigans in the season 5 finale required the whole of space and time to be collapsing in on itself already.

Now I do vaguely remember those rules being less physically impossible to break and more about breaking them causing the rest of time to break as well, and you could argue that bloodlusted the Time Lords wouldn't care about eventually destroying the universe if it destroys the enemy first... But that's a Pyrrhic victory at best.

Also, don't forget Lantern rings have messed around with time as well on occasion.

[BitVyper]

A lot of those rules are proven to be pretty easily circumvented in various cheaty ways, like Clara going back to Gallifrey... eventually, and a lot of the rules are just strongly worded suggestions. It's difficult to tell just what a PIS-less Time Lord civilisation can do because we know they have tons of stuff that they just don't use and they're still the most powerful civilisation around, and Division's boss is a Time Lord, and it considers things like ending the universe and skipping to a new one basically trivial and only impeded by the Doctor. It also exists wholly outside the universe and its own timeframe. I dunno if the whole of Division would count as a resource under the Time Lords (I mean it was created by one and its assets were basically just her manipulating shit throughout time), but it seemed pretty clear that anyone could have been operating the end-the-universe button.

[Nik Hasta]

The 11th Doctor breaking those rules and pulling Bill and Ted style shenanigans in the season 5 finale required the whole of space and time to be collapsing in on itself already.

This would be a valid argument if there weren't multiple instances of the Doctor intersecting with their own timeline elsewhere in the series that didn't require space and time being very weird. They can and have done it under normal circumstances without much issue. Amusingly, one of the reasons they don't more often is that various iterations of the Doctor, canonically, don't get on certain other versions of themself that well.

Also, I'm dubious on Mogo being able to handle a fleet of TARDIS by himself. A normal, non-weaponised TARDIS can hang out inside stars, move entire planets and drag things through time and space and we're talking dozens, if not hundreds of them specced out for war. If a couple of TARDIS get a hold of Mogo, they could feasibly pull him apart.

[Nik Hasta]

Also, digging through the wikis and I am reminded of just how much Doctor Who continuity there is.

Doctor Who really works on the old "everything is canon unless specifically specified otherwise and even then it still counts kind of because time stuff," model.

This fight is definitely going to involve /a lot/ of time travel shenanigans. Waverider and the Linear Men are going to be real upset by the aftermath of this.

[big_adventure]

The TVA will show up with their retcon cannon.

Wait... maybe that's what has been happening at DC all these years.