JSA / Justice Society of America Appreciation Thread 2022 version

[Psy-lock]

IMO the WWII aspect only works if the JSA members exist on their own Earth, otherwise there's just too much baggage with everyone's ages. You can't explain why their supporting characters and villains are still alive without some extensive retconning.

Also, I just don't like that they're considered to be the first heroes, it should always be Superman.

[Jon Clark]

IMO the WWII aspect only works if the JSA members exist on their own Earth, otherwise there's just too much baggage with everyone's ages. You can't explain why their supporting characters and villains are still alive without some extensive retconning.

Also, I just don't like that they're considered to be the first heroes, it should always be Superman.

I agree about the first hero. I also prefer their own Earth where Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman are part of that world from their original debut dates.

I'd even rather Superman and Wonder Woman on the current DC Earth also be as old as the JSAers. Heck now that we have tossed poor Clark under the bus, just have Superman reveal his dual identity some while back (like around 200-2005), let Jon have grown in real time, and make Batman the first hero since the JSA disbanded. Superman and Diana were either active the entire time or Superman went in search of Krypton while Diana returned to the Island to raise Fury after Steve Trevor's death. Both returned to Earth/active life around the time the JLA were founded.

[Alpha]

IMO the WWII aspect only works if the JSA members exist on their own Earth, otherwise there's just too much baggage with everyone's ages. You can't explain why their supporting characters and villains are still alive without some extensive retconning.

Also, I just don't like that they're considered to be the first heroes, it should always be Superman.

Supporting casts?

Look, Alan Scott remarried later in life after his first wife died and had Jade and Obsidian.

Jay Garrick also remarried.

Kent Nelson and Jim Corrigam survived for a long time and eventually passed on the helmet and died.

Wesley Dodds, Ma Hunkel, Al Pratt, Rex Tyler, Charles Mcnider, Ted Knight, Dinah Drake retired, had children and grandchildren and mentees to whom they passed their mantles and technology.

Rick Tyler is actually the grandson of Rex Tyler, etc


Greg Weisman and Brandon Vietti had the right idea. The JSA was a superhero organization with strong ties to the U.S. Government and had to retire in the 50s. Superman is the first superhero to be out there in public since then, founding the worldwide Justice League, he's the first known alien superhero, and he actively distances himself from the U.S. government to become an international figure that talks at the United Nations Conventions

[Psy-lock]

Supporting casts?

Look, Alan Scott remarried later in life after his first wife died and had Jade and Obsidian.

Jay Garrick also remarried.

Kent Nelson and Jim Corrigam survived for a long time and eventually passed on the helmet and died.

Wesley Dodds, Ma Hunkel, Al Pratt, Rex Tyler, Charles Mcnider, Ted Knight, Dinah Drake retired, had children and grandchildren and mentees to whom they passed their mantles and technology.

Rick Tyler is actually the grandson of Rex Tyler, etc


Greg Weisman and Brandon Vietti had the right idea. The JSA was a superhero organization with strong ties to the U.S. Government and had to retire in the 50s. Superman is the first superhero to be out there in public since then, founding the worldwide Justice League, he's the first known alien superhero, and he actively distances himself from the U.S. government to become an international figure that talks at the United Nations Conventions

You just proved my point that they don't make sense without extensive retconning. What's the point of not changing the time period if you still have to change major aspects of the characters?

[Alpha]

What major changes? Them having more than one marriage? Them being grandchildren instead of children? Do you think it makes such a big difference?

The only character that right now is straining to justify their presence is Ted Grant. He's a boxing champion from the 40s, and he should stay that way, not be around today. His legacy should live on as the grandfather of the current Black Canary, and the inspiration for Yolanda if they so choose

[Psy-lock]

What major changes? Them having more than one marriage? Them being grandchildren instead of children? Do you think it makes such a big difference?

Joan was a major part of Jay Garrick's GA adventures. Is WWII really more important than keeping their relationship as it's supposed to be?

Changing Rick into a grandson isn't too bad, but in a few decades it wouldn't work anymore and would have to be retconned again. And Rick's strained relationship with Rex is important to his character.

[Alpha]

Joan was a major part of Jay Garrick's GA adventures. Is WWII really more important than keeping their relationship as it's supposed to be?

Changing Rick into a grandson isn't too bad, but in a few decades it wouldn't work anymore and would have to be retconned again. And Rick's strained relationship with Rex is important to his character.

Both those relationships can still be preserved.

Joan and Jay had a long and wonderful marriage. And after a while of being alone, Jay would find another wonderful woman to enjoy life with later on. Doesn't take anything away from either one.

And the arduos relationships between fathers and sons could be a repeating pattern in the Tyler family. His son and his grandson could have the exact same dynamic with each other.

Personally, I think the Great Depression and the Dust Bowl is what writers should explore with Alan Scott's early adventures, and add that fir Jay too.

[Psy-lock]

Both those relationships can still be preserved.

Joan and Jay had a long and wonderful marriage. And after a while of being alone, Jay would find another wonderful woman to enjoy life with later on. Doesn't take anything away from either one.

And the arduos relationships between fathers and sons could be a repeating pattern in the Tyler family. His son and his grandson could have the exact same dynamic with each other.

Personally, I think the Great Depression and the Dust Bowl is what writers should explore with Alan Scott's early adventures, and add that fir Jay too.

Again, if it's ok to change their relationships and backstories then why is not ok to simply change WWII into a fictional WWIII?

[achilles]

Joan was a major part of Jay Garrick's GA adventures. Is WWII really more important than keeping their relationship as it's supposed to be?

Changing Rick into a grandson isn't too bad, but in a few decades it wouldn't work anymore and would have to be retconned again. And Rick's strained relationship with Rex is important to his character.

You must be one of the few who knows that about Joan, so I don't see a huge problem. The problem with putting them on their own Earth is that it isolates them from the main heroes most people read, and thus puts them in their own little ghetto, free to be ignored, used as cannon fodder for the next big event, and takes away the team-up stories that really made them more fun.

I don't see supporting cast for them as all that important. Johns got away with not using them much and no one cared.

[Stingo]

You must be one of the few who knows that about Joan, so I don't see a huge problem. The problem with putting them on their own Earth is that it isolates them from the main heroes most people read, and thus puts them in their own little ghetto, free to be ignored, used as cannon fodder for the next big event, and takes away the team-up stories that really made them more fun.

I don't see supporting cast for them as all that important. Johns got away with not using them much and no one cared.

Jay and Joan have always been presented by industrious comic book scribes since the Golden Age as the Nick and Nora Charles of the DC Universe. In the 1940s they were depicted as a boyfriend-girlfriend pair that routinely set off on adventures with one another (albeit with Jay being the one to normally save the day). When Jay and the rest of the JSA were reintroduced in the Silver Age, they were a comfortably married pair that readers saw a lot of in the pages of The Flash. Writer William Messner-Loebs was so enamored with the Garricks that, after Jay and his JSA buddies had been consigned to limbo shortly after Crisis On Infinite Earths, he used Joan as a semi-regular in his work on The Flash, a welcome gesture which Mark Waid thankfully carried on with during his storied tenure.

Joan Garrick is a firm member of Jay's supporting cast and it's a hard-pass from this longtime reader to have her consigned to the comic book scrap heap. Also, no need to jettison the JSA's ties with WWII - This is comic books after all, a medium where the impossible becomes possible.

[achilles]

Jay and Joan have always been presented by industrious comic book scribes since the Golden Age as the Nick and Nora Charles of the DC Universe. In the 1940s they were depicted as a boyfriend-girlfriend pair that routinely set off on adventures with one another (albeit with Jay being the one to normally save the day). When Jay and the rest of the JSA were reintroduced in the Silver Age, they were a comfortably married pair that readers saw a lot of in the pages of The Flash. Writer William Messner-Loebs was so enamored with the Garricks that, after Jay and his JSA buddies had been consigned to limbo shortly after Crisis On Infinite Earths, he used Joan as a semi-regular in his work on The Flash, a welcome gesture which Mark Waid thankfully carried on with during his storied tenure.

Joan Garrick is a firm member of Jay's supporting cast and it's a hard-pass from this longtime reader to have her consigned to the comic book scrap heap. Also, no need to jettison the JSA's ties with WWII - This is comic books after all, a medium where the impossible becomes possible.

All that said, she simply hasn't appeared that much in modern JSA comics. More than other such characters, but not very often. For the purposes of the JSA book, she's just not that important, and for a good reason, with such a large cast already, the JSA just can't fit in characters who don't direct affect the story. Honestly, in JSA you don't have to reference her history with Jay, just show her now and again when appropriate. She's part of his story for JSA purposes, but not the part such a book wishes to focus on; she's there, but her backstory isn't important in this instance.

[Alpha]

Why would this mean Jean was cosigned to the comic book scrap heap? Either she appears in flashbacks as his first partner in life, while we follow his and "Jane Doe"'s long marriage in the present. Or it's the other way around, and Joan is Jay's second wife that lasts until the present

Many stories, in comics, live action tv shows and animated tv shows have shown why the DC universe is much richer when it meshes real world history with the Justice Society as a historical team. That should be a priority. Putting that entire generation in a limbo, jumping in time, or making the whole team resistant to aging ruins the value of their experiences.

[MajorHoy]

You folks have convinced me: the Justice Society of America I use to know and love can't be saved.

DC Comics can't be saved.

Thank you for your input.

[D.Z]

Batman the protagonist is saving DC.

[CaptCleghorn]

IMO the WWII aspect only works if the JSA members exist on their own Earth, otherwise there's just too much baggage with everyone's ages. You can't explain why their supporting characters and villains are still alive without some extensive retconning.

Also, I just don't like that they're considered to be the first heroes, it should always be Superman.

Bringing back Earth-Two is my optimal solution.

I don't think WW2 is that important to the JSA. But them having attitudes and personalities from that period including all the social baggage is. The key to a new Earth Two (two is spelled out to specify it's the pre-Crisis version) is placing the time of the current day at 1986. And yes, they will be cries of "no mullets, no outdated trends and tech!" Rightfully so. The retcon I suggest is to change the planet so it has been dramatically affected by the JSA's activities. It's now a retro-future world where hair styles and slang are far from out world's. There we go. Ages fixed, supporting casts and kids, fixed. Villains fixed.