[POLL]For Betsy’s Fandom: After the undoing of the body swap you….

[yogaflame]

It's not fair Betsy must pay the price for the creators sins, but alas, so mote it be.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

I don't see it like that, I see it as Marvel wanting to right some big wrong in their eyes without giving it or her ANY thought past that and seeming to think that in and of itself would be enough...they badly dropped the ball...

[yogaflame]

Kwannon is doing great. If Marvel dropped a ball, it was in giving Betsy to Tini. I think she, and all the Otherworld/CB stuff, can be rectified, but not under Tini. Mayyyybe KoX will show me otherwise but...

[Triniking1234]

After Betsy returned to her original body and Kwannon was brought back as the Ninja Psylocke, have Betsy’s fandom migrated to Kwannon. Do you stay loyal to Elisabeth Braddock. Do you love both women? Never did and never will care for any of them?

I don't see why I would ditch Betsy for Kwannon. Kwannon wasn't there for Mutant Massacre, Fall of the Mutants, Inferno, X-Tinction Agenda, etc.

Kwannon is doing great. If Marvel dropped a ball, it was in giving Betsy to Tini. I think she, and all the Otherworld/CB stuff, can be rectified, but not under Tini. Mayyyybe KoX will show me otherwise but...

Kwannon needs a makeover and maybe a Remender X-Force level story to make her stand out.

[Askani's Flame]

Betsy is so boring she needed to switch races to become popular. Ask casual X-fans who Psylocke is and they will say a dark and mysterious Asian fighter, not a British white woman.

Now that she's not Psylocke anymore, she went and stole the role someone else made famous.

You really are a casual Betsy reader aren't you? Otherwise you'd know how wrong the majority of this post is. You can not like her character, which is totally cool, but she's been a popular character since the dawn of the Outback Era for X-Men has was popular in the Captain Britain comics before that. She's also had the title of CB. Yes the body change and Jim Lee's depiction of her in the early 90s cemented her coolness, but a lot of people liked her before.

Originally there wasn't any kind of body swap she was magically changed I do wonder what would have happened if the writer had done his homework and knew that beforehand what would have happened......probably nothing I don't think she would have went back to the British body the change was to popular by that point.

Yes, Claremont originally had planned that her body change would dissipate as the effects of the Mandarin and the SP wore off. But Jim loved her as the sexy ninja and when Claremont was told Jim was taking over he couldn't change her as Jim didn't want a change. And then boom she was the sexist female hero in comics.

[CGAR]

I know this isnt going to sound great and Betsy will always be my favorite character. But under Tini's writing I feel like she's been neutered. She's lot her edge, spunkiness, attitude, sexiness etc. Yeah you can get TINY BRIEF glimpses in THs Excalibur run but I still think the way she writes it is off. IDK if others will understand that.

We never really got insight which is crazy because others have said they were annoyed that that run was just the Betsy show. But like honestly in the 26 issues everyone is saying she got development I just didnt see it. We were to read between the lines and things happened off panel and we really should have been getting inner monologue or something. Instead of her being so flip floppy. It just could have been done so much better IMO.

And I understand that she was dealing with getting her body back BUT in canon she has literally gone through that everytime someone has offered her her body back. I guess the angle for this is that she finally got to see the living breathing individual of the body she inhabited but she was literally forced into it and no one was talking about Kwannon for the past 15-20 years and now its all Betsy's fault which I still will say is BS.

I just think she's lost some of her flavor and being a patriotic hero will distance her from the X-Men IMO. We should have had disassembled Betsy for a lot longer IMO.

And my own head cannon is that they were basically soul sisters since they each shared eachothers identities/bodies/combined souls w this retcon and that when they fight together they are always in sync and simpatico.

Im also in the thinking now that doesnt like that she basically took Brians title. Which was mostly the fault of TH writing. Because at first she doesnt want it and is going to give it back and then all of a sudden it means the world to her to be Captain Britain. It just didnt make any sense. I think her brothers both got codenames that are better suited for her.

[From The Shadows]

I like both Kwannon and pre Bridges Perilous Betsy. I think they can both exist.

[WallStreeter]

Kwannon all the way.

Betsy is so boring she needed to switch races to become popular. Ask casual X-fans who Psylocke is and they will say a dark and mysterious Asian fighter, not a British white woman.

Now that she's not Psylocke anymore, she went and stole the role someone else made famous. I think without these gimmicks, Betsy is just another white female psychic an archetype that has much better characters already.

Claremont created both Emma Frost and Elizabeth Braddock as white female psychics from rich families. Psylocke’s use of her telepathic powers was pretty much the same as Emma Frosts too, with the psychic mind blasts.

So they did the body swap to make her a different character. When they undid they body swap and brought Kwannon back to life, obviously they could not have Betsy do ninja stuff anymore. They decided to reconnect her to Otherworld, since that is unique about her. Her Otherworld heritage sets her aside from any other telepath, and she has a huge supporting cast from Otherworld and her family.

[crimsontt]

I like Betsy Braddock story, regardless the body she is in.

Introduced as a pilot at a young age, betsy first appeared as a bland damsel in distress for captain britain in one of his first stories. She later showed some guts handling an axe against her brothers, while hallucinating, but no true personality came out for her in her fist depictions.

Later she was mentioned to be a model. Her majestic beauty would be a relevant part of her characterization trough the years

Then she came back as a spy and finally with some personality of her own. She was written as real, down to earth woman, warm hearted towards her family and friends, but with a cool and sophisticated behavior, like the british aristocrat she is.

She was the cunning, reserved, background support player, while brian played the face front type.

She was not a hero. Even when she reluctantly took over captain britain mantle, her failure showed us she was not meant to wear a cape. At least not yet.

When she joined the x-men that is where she had picked up from. She showed a inner desire to belong to a band of warriors, but she wasn’t sure she fit. Her first adventures proved her she could have a place among the heroes and she joined the x-men as one the brains. A major strategist, not in the front line due to her lack of Physical strength.

She was deadly in her own way, but not born to be a warrior, like storm or wolverine. She even started sporting a knight armor to compensate for her fragility.

I think betsy wanted to be a warrior, but not a face type champion like her brother. She wasn’t half as noble as her brother and felt completely fine with that. She was a bit merciless and didn’t respect privacy that much, mind-scanning people without permission. She was friendly, but colder than other x-men, I’d say.

After the siege perilous we went deeper on betsy’s inner wish to be a warrior. We learn about betsy frustration with brian being chosen to be captain britain, and not her. She was the adventurous tom boy and brian the bookworm. It should not be a birthright passed from father to son, right?

Her rebirth trough the siege perilous granted her the final piece in her quest for being a true warrior by putting her mind into the body of a Japanese assassin. Betsy was now depicted as master combatant, able to transform a fight into a masterpiece. Flawless body and mind connection was now her trademark. Thoughts and action as one. She moved from being one of brains, or the woman behind the curtains, to the front line of the team. Not as commander, but as a soldier, a pawn. Far from irrelevant, though. She was more popular then ever, back then. Perhaps she could still sit on one of the council chairs with xavier, cyclops, jean and storm, but she wasn’t that interested. She was thrilled with the possibilities of her new body and fighting skills and all she wanted is the adrenaline of jumping into close combat, even though she had the perfect powerset for long ranged attacks.

(Her adrenaline addiction and her pragmatism when giving bad guys their deserved payback would one day evolve to her killing addiction and haunt her completely)

We learn that betsy was truly comfortable in her new skin. She was finally a fighting machine, a warrior, on pair with wolverine, and she was even able to match her brother on a fight. Her drop-dead beauty was more explored by writers and by her. She wasn’t afraid of being sexy and flirting wildly. She was pretty active in the british body, skying, swimming. But after the body swap she became a disciplined gym rat. Always training in the danger room, or exercising outdoor. Something explored until these days.

After the body swap was revealed and revanche returned in her original caucasian body, it s fair to say that ‘convolution’ became another layer of psylocke’s characterization. She often mentions how her life has been many times obliterated and manipulated that is hard to settle in her own skin.

She now faced herself once again in a identity issue: she was finally what she ever wanted to be and she panicked with the possibility of it being taken back from her.

It wasn’t taken from her after all. Betsy remained in kwannon’s body, as the team resident ninja. The ninja attribute of her characterization completely dominated her during the late 90’s. It was pushed even further with the crimson dawn storyline, removing the outgoing, friendly aspect of her. She was colder than ever, callous, silent. Just like an actual ninja should be. The crimson dawn also was a scape goat for merging even more improper Japanese aspects into psylocke character: she had a dojo, a red face tattoo resembling a Japanese ideogram and a mini serie heavily influenced by oriental mythologies.

She showed a really noble part of herself when she chose to sacrifice her telepathy to lock shadowking into her mind. It is my feeling that she wouldn’t feel that inclined to abdicate from her fighting skills.

When claremont came back and rebooted betsy with TK and no trace o Crimson Dawn, she was back to basics. She was still aiming to be the perfect warrior, after all, even as a ninja, she had a few defeats (like when she was almost killed by sabretooth). She wasn’t nearly half as skilled with her tk as she was with her telepathy, but the strength of new powers enhancing the physical strength of her punchs and kicks, made her even more proficient into hand to hand combat.

Once again, betsy was depicted as the one who can kill from afar, but choose to rely on short ranged psionic weapons and melee attacks.

One thing that claremont returned to her character is her joie de vivre. Betsy as frequently dancing, drinking, flirting. She was indeed a free spirit, at last not tormented by the collateral effects of her inner quests.

Then she died and was resurrected by her crazy older brother. Once again in the convoluted road of obliterations, deaths and rebirths that defines betsy’s history.

After the body swap, until claremont took over x-men again the 00’s we hardly saw betsy manifest her aristocrat background and mannerisms. We saw her hellfire club heritage and she paid a few visits to brian in Excalibur, but in the end, during the 90’s It was like she knew she could have been a princess, but threw it all away to be a warrior.

I think claremont did a great job in consolidating past and present betsy in a single character. Silk and armor, tea and knives, braddock manor and danger room. She was both a warrior and a rich british girl.


Shortly after her resurrection she joined Exiles. Betsy and her never ending quest for relevance as a warrior. She moved from being a mutant warrior to a omniversal warrior, a role she felt she would be more useful than being a second class x-men.

When psylocke came back to earth in late 00’s, she briefly felt under the soldier/pawn characterization from the early 90’s. thankfully she soon grew out of this role and in the 2010’s she was one of the mutants, like wolverine, who felt a duty to protect mutants at any cost from the insane levels of oppression they where suffering after the second coming. Acting more in the shadows than never, she joined x-force as their moral compass, but she eventually went way down the road of bloodlust. Another layer of her personality surfaced: The swan in lake. Calm and peaceful in the outside, but in a intense turmoil on the inside regarding her killing addiction.

The irony: what once was her blessing was now her curse. She was the body of an ninja assassin, being the warrior she ever wanted to be, but it backfired when the assassin instincts within the body completely took over her morals.

Those years redefined her character. Betsy became more conflicted and serious. Her struggles with her killing addiction and her reluctancy on following wolverine undercover agenda led her to her own path. She had her own beliefs and stopped following orders. That would result in her running her own x-forces (her group in LA and then co leading a team with cable) and then joining magneto on his “brotherhood of evil x-men”, when no other x-men did.

Now back in her original body, betsy is acting as if she is in a clean slate. As if her dark deeds have left her with her ninja body. She says she feels resentful of the things she did in kwannon’s body as if this was a burden she passed along with the body. It feels like she wants to believe in this, and for the first time we see betsy inclined towards nobility. She not only sees herself as a warrior, but also a noble hero. At least, she is trying hard to prove herself as one. So far in her tenure as captain britain, it seems that gone are the days she would stab her knives, twist minds and sneak away.

On the other hand, kwannon is now back, leading a band of killers, to take from where uncanny x-force betsy left us. lurking in the shadows - assassin psylocke!

Regarding betsy in excalibur now, you don’t happen to press a button and leave behind who you are in order to fit a new role. I’d love to see her pragmatism towards the bad guys and her personal objectives conflicting with her self imposed righteousness. Saturnine has already teased us regarding this in excalibur 13 and this is a direction I’d love to see.

[kevinism]

I like Betsy Braddock story, regardless the body she is in.

Introduced as a pilot at a young age, betsy first appeared as a bland damsel in distress for captain britain in one of his first stories. She later showed some guts handling an axe against her brothers, while hallucinating, but no true personality came out for her in her fist depictions.

Later she was mentioned to be a model. Her majestic beauty would be a relevant part of her characterization trough the years

Then she came back as a spy and finally with some personality of her own. She was written as real, down to earth woman, warm hearted towards her family and friends, but with a cool and sophisticated behavior, like the british aristocrat she is.

She was the cunning, reserved, background support player, while brian played the face front type.

She was not a hero. Even when she reluctantly took over captain britain mantle, her failure showed us she was not meant to wear a cape. At least not yet.

When she joined the x-men that is where she had picked up. She showed a inner desire to belong to a band of warriors, but she wasn’t sure she fit. Her first adventures proved her she could have a place among the heroes and she joined the x-men as one the brains. A major strategist, not in the front line due to her lack of Physical strength.

She was deadly in her own way, but not born to be a warrior, like storm or wolverine. She even started sporting a knight armor to compensate for her fragility.

I think betsy wanted to be a warrior, but not a face type champion like her brother. She wasn’t half as noble as her brother and felt completely fine with that. She was a bit merciless and didn’t respect privacy that much, mind-scanning people without permission. She was friendly, but colder than other x-men, I’d say.

After the siege perilous we went deeper on betsy’s inner wish to be a warrior. We learn about betsy frustration with brian being chosen to be captain britain, and not her. She was the adventurous tom boy and brian the bookworm. It should not be a birthright passed from father to son, right?

Her rebirth trough the siege perilous granted her the final piece in her quest for being a true warrior by putting her mind into the body of a Japanese assassin. Betsy was now depicted as master combatant, able to transform a fight into a masterpiece. Flawless body and mind connection was now her trademark. Thoughts and action as one. She moved from being one of brains, or the woman behind the curtains, to the front line of the team. Not as commander, but as a soldier, a pawn. Far from irrelevant, thought. She was more popular then ever, back then. Perhaps she could still sit on one of the council chairs with xavier, cyclops, jean and storm, but she wasn’t that interested. She was thrilled with the possibilities of her new body and fighting skills and all she wanted is the adrenaline of jumping into close combat, even though she had the perfect powerset for long ranged attacks.

(Her adrenaline addiction and her pragmatism when giving bad guys their deserved payback would one day evolve to her killing addiction and haunt her completely)

We learn that betsy was truly comfortable in her new skin. She was finally a fighting machine, a warrior, on pair with wolverine, and she was even able to match her brother on a fight. Her drop-dead beauty was more explored by writers and by her. She wasn’t afraid of being sexy and flirting wildly. She was pretty active in the british body, skying, swimming. But after the body swap she became a disciplined gym rat. Always training in the danger room, or exercising outdoor. Something explored until these days.

After the body swap was revealed and revanche returned in her original caucasian body, it s fair to say that ‘convolution’ became another layer of psylocke’s characterization. She often mentions how her life has been many times obliterated and manipulated that is hard to settle in her own skin.

She now faced herself once again in a identity issue: she was finally what she ever wanted to be and she panicked with the possibility of it being taken back from her.

It wasn’t taken from her after all. Betsy remained in kwannon’s body, as the team resident ninja. The ninja attribute of her characterization completely dominated her during the late 90’s. It was pushed even further with the crimson dawn storyline, removing the outgoing, friendly aspect of her. She was colder than ever, callous, silent. Just like an actual ninja should be. The crimson dawn also was a scape goat for merging even more improper Japanese aspects into psylocke character: she had a dojo, a red face tattoo resembling a Japanese ideogram and a mini serie heavily influenced by oriental mythologies.

She showed a really noble part of herself when she chose to sacrifice her telepathy to lock shadowking into her mind. It is my feeling that she wouldn’t feel that inclined to abdicate from her fighting skills.

When claremont came back and rebooted betsy with TK and no trace o Crimson Dawn, she was back to basics. She was still aiming to be the perfect warrior, after all, even as a ninja, she had a few defeats (like when she was almost killed by sabretooth). She wasn’t nearly half as skilled with her tk as she was with her telepathy, but the strength of new powers enhancing the physical strength of her punchs and kicks, made her even more proficient into hand to hand combat.

Once again, betsy was depicted as the one who can kill from afar, but choose to rely on short ranged psionic weapons and melee attacks.

One thing that claremont returned to her character is her joie de vivre. Betsy as frequently dancing, drinking, flirting. She was indeed a free spirit, at last not tormented by the collateral effects of her inner quests.

Then she died and was resurrected by her crazy older brother. Once again in the convoluted road of obliterations, deaths and rebirths that defines betsy’s history.

Until claremont took over x-men again the 00’s we hardly saw betsy manifest her aristocrat background and mannerisms. We saw her hellfire club heritage and she paid a few visits to brian in Excalibur. But in the end, during the 90’s It was like she knew she could have been a princess, but threw it all away to be a warrior.

I think claremont did a great job in consolidating past and present betsy in a single character. Silk and armor, tea and knives, braddock manor and danger room. She was both a warrior and a rich british girl.


Shortly after her resurrection she joined Exiles. Betsy and her never ending quest for relevance as a warrior. She moved from being a mutant warrior to a omniversal warrior, a role she felt she would be more useful than being a second class x-men.

When psylocke came back to earth in late 00’s, she briefly felt under the soldier/pawn characterization from the early 90’s. thankfully she soon grew out of this role and in the 2010’s she was one of the mutants, like wolverine, who felt a duty to protect mutants at any cost from the insane levels of oppression they where suffering after the second coming. Acting more in the shadows than never, she joined x-force as their moral compass, but she eventually went way down the road of bloodlust. Another layer of her personality surfaced: The swan in lake. Calm and peaceful in the outside, but in a intense turmoil on the inside regarding her killing addiction.

The irony: what once was her blessing was now her curse. She was the body of an ninja assassin, being the warrior she ever wanted to be, but it backfired when the assassin instincts within the body completely took over her morals.

Those years redefined her character. Betsy became more conflicted and serious. Her struggles with her killing addiction and her reluctancy on following wolverine undercover agenda led her to her own path. She had her own beliefs and stopped following orders. That would result in her running her own x-forces (her group in LA and then co leading a team with cable) and then joining magneto on his “brotherhood of evil x-men”, when no other x-men did.

Now back in her original body, betsy is acting as if she is in a clean slate. As if her dark deeds have left her with her ninja body. She says she feels resentful of the things she did in kwannon’s body as if this was a burden she passed along with the body. It feels like she wants to believe in this, and for the first time we see betsy inclined towards nobility. She not only sees herself as a warrior, but also a noble hero. At least, she is trying hard to prove herself as one. So far in her tenure as captain britain, it seems that gone are the days she would stab her knives, twist minds and sneak away.

On the other hand, kwannon is now back, leading a band of killers, to take from where uncanny x-force betsy left us. lurking in the shadows - assassin psylocke!

Regarding betsy in excalibur now, you don’t happen to press a button and leave behind who you are in order to fit a new role. I’d love to see her pragmatism towards the bad guys and her personal objectives conflicting with her self imposed righteousness. Saturnine has already teased us regarding this in excalibur 13 and this is a direction I’d love to see.

Amazing summary!

[Alphaxman]

If you could recommend 5 to 10 stories that best represent Betsy to Tini so she could write her better, what would they be and why?
Would you remove the Captain Britain mantle? Would you want her to get rid of the Starlight sword and use a pionic claymore (broadsword) instead?
Should she use her martial arts more?

[crimsontt]

If you could recommend 5 to 10 stories that best represent Betsy to Tini so she could write her better, what would they be and why?
Would you remove the Captain Britain mantle? Would you want her to get rid of the Starlight sword and use a pionic claymore (broadsword) instead?
Should she use her martial arts more?

Tini should drink from:

Uncanny X-men annual 11 - shows her very elucidative point of view of who she is and her wish for braveness.
The fall of mutants - The creative display of her telepathy
Extinction Agenda - Her toughness and adrenaline addiction
Psy War- Her personality was well synthesized in theses issues
Uncanny X-Force by Remender - The entire run is a rounded character development for Betsy
X-Force by Spurrier.
Uncanny X-Men by bunn

[Havok83]

Im a fan of Kwannon now after Hellions sold her on me. Unfortunately Betsy as CB is boring and I dropped Excalibur

[JB]

Amazing summary!

Hear, hear! I thoroughly enjoyed reading that. Thanks, crimsontt.

[Wat]

Thanks to Hellions, I am a huge fan of Kwannon now, but I still have no idea what her deal is.

She wasn't a mutant. *Maybe* weakly psychic sensitive? Hand Assassin.

Betsy's peanut butter got all up in her chocolate and she became telepathic, as sometimes (inconsistently) happens when a telepath mind enters a non-telepath body. (And sometimes it doesn't, like when Emma body-swapped with Storm, and Storm became a telepath and Emma had the weather control!) In any event, once the Betsy got flushed out of Kwannon's body, the telepathy should have gone with it.

And she *never* had an X-gene, but is being treated like a mutant, these days?

I feel like a story about a Kwannon who was maybe weakly psychically sensitive (quasi-reformed!) ninja assassin, not a mutant, not a telepath, but having to adjust to her new life as an ex-assassin who may or may not have pledged her soul to the demon Beast master of the Hand (will that ever come around to bite her shapely butt?), could be more interesting than Kwannon replaying the best-hits-of-Betsy-Braddock/mutant-telepath #73.

She will probably kick your out of shape butt for that remark.