Axel-In-Charge: The Mixed Message of Manara's "Spider-Woman" Variant, The Reason Behind No "Big Hero

[Imraith Nimphais]

Yes it does make sense. He does understand that the issue runs much deeper than just one image and is more prevalent...hence his statement/decision to be more sensitive going forward. By inferring he needs to fire/not work with Manara (who has done tasteful work and has a huge following) ever again is quite frankly absurd. And hints of over-indulged self-importance.

If marvel were to stop hiring/working with artists who, in one form or another produced something "objectionable", then their artist-roster would be woefully decreased to about ten.

Consider this, for every taste-less and objectionable "Manara-cover" that I like, there are three and more covers that the vast majority (including SY-fans) can adore. Why must you "prudes" have all the fun and enjoyment?

[Quicksilverfan]

"We apologies, we're sorry, we respect you, we're sorry, apologies... oh, but we'll use this erotica artist again, tots". Ah! So... didn't "really" understand the underlying problems then (perfectly highlighted in Kelly Thompson's blog). Good. To. Know. smh

Thank you for writing that because now I don't have to What's the point of apologizing if you're going to do it again? Obviously they don't see anything wrong with what they did, they're just sorry people got offended.
To be fair, the other covers Manara did were a bit more tasteful...still sexualized women, but not as reminiscent of a woman about to take it doggie style.

[ExcelsiorPrime]

"We apologies, we're sorry, we respect you, we're sorry, apologies... oh, but we'll use this erotica artist again, tots". Ah! So... didn't "really" understand the underlying problems then (perfectly highlighted in Kelly Thompson's blog). Good. To. Know. smh

Because Artists cant change how she or he draws and one mistake is a lifetime curse. Aren't you glad no one judges us with the same level of damnation.

[Pharoahe22]

But Wolverine wont be gone..it looks like he will be mentioned, for a year. Unlike captain America who's death ushered in Barne's Cap/ nothing will fill the void so we will get to hear every character eulogize over a loner who had no interpersonal relationships with male characters and slept or tried to sleep with every woman he's ever known/ LOL


End of Friday rant...lets party.

Wolverine hadn't been a loner for a long time. He's been on every team known to man and he has plenty of interpersonal relationships with male characters: Nightcrawler, Beast, Colossus, Cyclops (before the Schism), Captain America, Spider-Man, Thor was a drinking buddy as was Hercules, etc etc.

[Quicksilverfan]

Yes it does make sense. He does understand that the issue runs much deeper than just one image and is more prevalent...hence his statement/decision to be more sensitive going forward. By inferring he needs to fire/not work with Manara (who has done tasteful work and has a huge following) ever again is quite frankly absurd. And hints of over-indulged self-importance.

If marvel were to stop hiring/working with artists who, in one form or another produced something "objectionable", then their artist-roster would be woefully decreased to about ten.

Consider this, for every taste-less and objectionable "Manara-cover" that I like, there are three and more covers that the vast majority (including SY-fans) can adore. Why must you "prudes" have all the fun and enjoyment?

What are Manara's non-erotic work? Out of curiosity, because honestly I haven't found one but maybe I haven't looked hard enough...
The issue with Manara is not that he's done "some objectionable" work, but that erotica is the bulk of his work. It's what he's known for. I personally wonder if it's appropriate to hire a guy famous for that type of work in a company that also releases stuff for kids, amongst other concerns.
Comparing Manara's work to Scottie Young is ridiculous. It's not a matter of liking the art, it's a matter of the art being offensive by reenforcing the message that women are sexual objects.

[Imraith Nimphais]

Yes it is what he's known for.

I know that. Axel knows that. Marvel knows that. The woman who found it offensive and wrote an article on it, knows that. Fans of his work, know that. Everyone knows that.

Marvel, by Axel's admission, were marketing that specific variant to those who know of and appreciate his work. Not to kids, in general...again...because they know his work. (Just as they've done with all his previous variants).

And again...because apparently the point was missed and I was not making myself clear enough...I was not comparing SY's work to Manara's. I was merely using it as a reference to show that wot you find objectionable, I may think of as perfectly fine and acceptable and vice-versa, and that wanting Marvel to stop working with Manara simply because a group of people find his work (this cover in particular) offensive, is ridiculous.

[Park Slope Pixie]

I can appreciate Alonso's statement on the Manara. Hopefully, Marvel will be more considerate of how they want to present the books they publish.

On a side note, why is Polaris left out of another Magnus family affair? Even Crystal and Vision are there!

TBF, Polaris is pretty incompetent and would add little.

Crystal is amazing and doesn't need any lessers stealing her rightful spotlight.

[Park Slope Pixie]

This face is beautiful.

Attachment 8942

[The_Greatest_Username]

TBF, Polaris is pretty incompetent and would add little.

Crystal is amazing and doesn't need any lessers stealing her rightful spotlight.

FFS, she can add more to this than the toaster!

Make no mistake, I love Crystal and her multitude of suitors.

[Park Slope Pixie]

I love how she's got men from all species and interstellar races beating down her door. Suitors indeed!

[Quicksilverfan]

And again...because apparently the point was missed and I was not making myself clear enough...I was not comparing SY's work to Manara's. I was merely using it as a reference to show that wot you find objectionable, I may think of as perfectly fine and acceptable and vice-versa, and that wanting Marvel to stop working with Manara simply because a group of people find his work (this cover in particular) offensive, is ridiculous.

No I did understand what you were saying. Your analogy doesn't work. Not liking SY's work is not the same thing as someone being offended by a picture Manara draws of a woman in a submissive position. You're going to have to tell me what exactly is offensive about Skottie Young's art because I fail to see it.

[Kpop]

Another thing from the past couple weeks -- last week, Marvel's November 2014 solicitations arrived, and it's been pointed out that's the same month the "Big Hero 6" Disney animated film is scheduled for release, and there was no tie-in material listed. It left people wondering if there are plans for the characters -- so I thought I'd put that question to you. Are there any plans for "Big Hero 6"?

Alonso: There are no plans.

Any particular reason why?

Alonso: The characters and stories that have appeared in our comics are very different from what they are in the film. Releasing material that would be viewed as movie tie-in product would be a disservice to filmgoers. We wanted the Disney folks to be able to create their own unique style and story, unencumbered by those older stories.

Marvel did do some reprints a while ago, when the movie was first being talked about.

Alonso: Yeah, we have a catalog of stuff that we can reprint, but we have no intention of doing anything related to the movie.

Or anything new with those characters?

Alonso: At this stage, no.

Kudos to Albert for asking some tough questions and follow-ups, but Alonso's responses struck me as more canned Disney corporate responses than candid answers.

First of all, since when has Marvel been worried that its marketing practices could result in a "disservice to filmgoers?" Comic book movie adaptations are always different than the comic book source material. That didn't stop Marvel from giving Deacon Frost a huge push following the "Blade" movie, or shamelessly shoving Deadpool down everyone's throats after his appearance in "Wolverine: Origins." This is the same company that restarts most of its ongoing series every other year with a new #1 issue, and sticks Deadpool on covers of issues that he doesn't even appear in because market research shows that these practices increase sales. So to believe that Marvel suddenly developed a conscience and is more worried about "disservices to filmgoers" than profit is a bit of a stretch to me.

Plus, there's a huge demand for the Big Hero 6 back issues right now. On those retailer websites where you're lucky enough to still find Big Hero 6 back issues, they're selling for $30-50 per issue. That's due to a genuine interest in the source material . . . not because the unsuspecting, moviegoing populace is under the false pretense that these back issues are movie tie-in products.

And notice how Albert deftly tried to call Alfonso out on the inconsistency of his answers with the fact that Marvel did, in fact, issue Big Hero 6 reprints and feature the team in an all-new adventure in 2012 when Disney first announced the Big Hero 6 movie. But, alas, Alonso just side stepped it by answering another question that wasn't even asked of him. :-P

So the question remains: what changed between 2012 and 2014 to make Marvel's official policy on Big a Hero 6 change?

[Vladimir Lemon]

Not liking SY's work is not the same thing as someone being offended by a picture Manara draws of a woman in a submissive position. .

This is where the real argument is. Feminine hip and butt poses often appear submissive, or at least non aggressive. Masculine shoulder and torso poses appear more aggressive. This is why it is more difficult to draw a woman who appears physically powerful but also idealistically attractive. It can be and has been done, but it's more difficult.

I'm reminded of the TV show The New Girl, where Zoeey Deschanel's character recounts how she lost her virginity. She is with a kind, respectful man who is in the Gender Equality Club at their school. As they prepare to have sex, he keeps insecurely asking her if she is sure that she is comfortable. Eventually she gets angry and yells "be a man and rip off my dress!" Then he admits that he now feels uncomfortable.

Some women prefer to be dominant. Some men prefer to be submissive. For better or worse however, attractive male poses are usually more aggressive and attractive female poses are usually inviting and non threatening. Manara drew a picture that represented a traditionally feminine pose. That is why the drawing has been called an example of sexism.

When Spider-Man is drawn in the same pose, he is breaking a gender norm and posing in a way that is not as attractive for a male, according to population studies.

[Kpop]

Sounds to me like Marvel doesn't want to even so much as touch Big Hero 6 anymore. My guess is that since they couldn't get it to click with audiences when they were writing it, Marvel fobbed it off to Disney and let them do whatever they wanted to it.

I have a feeling Marvel wants to touch Big Hero 6 very much. Reprinting back issues alone into a collected edition would be cheap and reap huge returns. But it sounds to me like Disney issued a restraining order to prevent unwanted touching of Big Hero 6 by Marvel.

[CyclopsWasRight]

So the shadowy figure in the Magneto preview is going to be a robotic brained Xavier, right?